The Lesser Known Prestige Class Game

[SamTheCleric]

There are a lot of books for 3.5. There are a lot of prestige classes in those books. The problem that I am finding is that we see the same 8-12 prestige classes recomended at all times.

The challenge? Find a prestige class that is "less-than-optimal" or one that you've always wanted to try out despite it's drawbacks... and make a build using it. You must take at least HALF of the levels of said prestige class (no one level dips!).

Try and come up with some obscure and interesting builds... Not everyone needs to be a Loremaster, Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil and Incanatrix!

[riddles]

my current build:

Fighter 6/Barbarian 2/Exotic Weapon Master 1/Stonelord X

i haven't actually taken any stonelord levels yet. but the first earth power i'l be taking is stoneskin. stoneskin + charger build = survivability in the second round.

+ self buffing (bear's strength, bull's endurance)
+ summoning (earth elemental)
+ sneakyness (stonemeld)

[Zincorium]

I'm a really big fan of Dragon Disciple, even though it does get a lot of smack talked about it for being neither a full caster or full BAB. Admittedly, the Dragonforged idea I mentioned a while back has something to do with this.

[SamTheCleric]

I've always wanted to make an Argent Savant... but that first caster level lost really turns me away for some reason. Force Spells (especially the Bigby Stephen Colbert) appeal to me for some reason... I'm the type that will fill his daily spells with Empowered and Maximized Magic Missiles.

[MorkaisChosen]

Arcane Archer. I've been wanting to play a Bard/Arcane Archer for ages... Bard 10/AA10 could work, I think.

[Kurald Galain]

I had a build with a Wild Soul in it, and was seriously considering that storm wizard from It's Wet Outside.

The problem is that many prestige classes aren't just "sub-optimal", but simply a really bad idea either mechanically or thematically.

[Darrin]

I'm a really big fan of Dragon Disciple, even though it does get a lot of smack talked about it for being neither a full caster or full BAB. Admittedly, the Dragonforged idea I mentioned a while back has something to do with this.

Saph already started a thread on finding useful builds for Dragon Disciple:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60222

I noticed Person_Man's "Reclaiming the Healer" thread didn't get very far:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69653

Glancing through a "Most useless PrC" thread, some popular candidates:

Arcane Archer
Dwarven Defender
Thaumaturgist
Survivor
Shining Blade of Heironymous
Green Star Adept

[Doresain]

i havent read anything (on here or through books)on the ordained champion until like yesterday when i was glancing through complete champion

i am now set on making a militant cleric

[nargbop]

Cleric / Weapon Master / Kensai / Knight of the Anointed Chalice from the Book of Exalted Deeds. The last two are fun-tastic; a friend is using this mix in a game starting at level 20. Come level 21, his class abilities allow his ancestral anointed kensai-improved weapon to become ridiculously good. In non-epic levels, the weapon maxes out at +10. I believe it will jump up to a +18 equivalent or so in a single level.
Knight of the Anointed Chalice is an Exalted prestige class ; you must be a screaming-good guy to use it. My friend is playing someone like Simon from Castlevania.

[Jimbob]

My current build:
Wizard 3 / Master specialist 10 / Lore master 7 (or Arch mage 5/Loremaster 2)

Have not decided yet as im only 6th level still away away.

[Keld Denar]

Loremaster is actually amazingly good, if only for the reason that you get 6+int skill points and UMD as a class skill. A little creative looking and you can find such gems as the Bead of Karma, which you can trick into thinking you can cast divine spells, then activate for +4 caster levels, which is pretty nice. Great for doing your daily buffing, or immediately prior to a major battle for overcoming SR and adding bonus range/duration/etc to spells.

I have yet to find ANYONE make a build using Shining Blade for anything other than its full BAB. Its class abilities are SOOOO useless. By the time you've got yourself buffed, the combat is already 1/2 over. And the buffs aren't even that impressive.

So, yea, you COULD make a build with some paladin levels and some fighter levels and then stack on Shining Blade, but honestly, you'd be better off just stacking more paladin or fighter levels and calling it good.

[Ascension]

I really want to play a Malconvoker, but I'm not sure if that counts as obscure... I mean, sure, it loses a caster level, but there are still known ways to optimize one.

Hmm... Let's see... More obscure...

Order of the Bow Initiate: I know it's severely suboptimal. I don't care.

Daggerspell Mage: I know gish PrCs are usually a bad idea, but I like the idea of stabbing people with magic.

Dread Pirate.: Oh yes, yes, a hundred times yes. It oozes style. If I ever play an ocean-based campaign I'm begging the DM for it.

Fochlucan Lyrist: I've wanted to play this class ever since I saw it. Sure, essentially all you get is advancement of druid (good) and bard (not worth it) casting, like some even worse version of a Mystic Theurge (which I've also always wanted to play, by the way), but I love the feel of it. Strolling through the forest, fascinating all the animals like some Disney-movie heroine, at one with both song and nature.

Shadowbane Inquisitor: I guess you can tell by now I have this thing with combo PrCs. Be that as it may, a rogue/paladin is such a beautiful study in contradictions I can't resist wanting to play one.

Eye of Gruumsh: More specifically, I want to deconstruct the Eye of Gruumsh. I'd like to play a "liberal" CN half-orc Eye who entered the order not out of a love of slaughter, but rather for the love of orcish culture. He reveres Gruumsh, yes, but he's part of a radical sub-sect which "reinterprets" the teachings of Gruumsh for the modern era. He teaches that good is alright every now and then, and that it's really okay to love each other, just as long as you all hate the elves together. He might even travel with good adventurers as part of a multicultural outreach program.

But he still flies into a mindless battle rage whenever he so much as hears the word "elf." Some things never change.

War Chanter: Want to know why? Just listen to this.
"'Land of song,' cried the warrior bard,/'Though all the world betrays thee,/One sword, at least, thy right shall guard,/One faithful harp shall praise thee.'"
In the event he hits 0 HP, his last standard action will be an attempt to sunder his harp.

[nerulean]

It's not exactly lesser-known, though certainly one of the ToB prestige classes you don't see bandied about all the time, but I'd love to play a Shadow Sun Ninja - its fluff and execution are awesome. I wouldn't do anything fancy with it, just play it as it's written. Good stuff.

ETA: Oh heck yes, I second the Fochlucan Lyrist. If you didn't have to take a couple of doofy rogue levels, I'd have taken this PrC a long time ago. I compromised instead by playing a half-nymph bard, which managed to get the flavour pretty close.

[TheCountAlucard]

I made an Elf Rogue 5/Watch Detective (Masters of the Wild) 10.

[Tokiko Mima]

Changeling Factotum 5/Chameleon 10/Abjurant Champion 5

I'm convinced that Chameleon is one of the best PrC's around, but it seems like no one ever takes it except to dip in for a few levels. I mean, this build has 9th level arcane and divine spellcasting and takes it's spells from *any* spell list. Add the bonus feat that you can change any day and the fact that the Extra Spell can grant any 8th level or lower spell (that you can scribe to your spell book and change the next day) and you have a build more formidible than a Batman wizard because you have all his spells and more, and a set of divine spells more inclusive than CoDzillas.

Of course, if your GM is mean and won't let you use Abjurant Champion to advance Chameleon spellcasting past 6th level then it's not quite as uber. But it's still a nice build with the ability to pass itself off as a member of any other class and gives a +6 competence bonus to any single ability score you might want.

[Mad Maudlin]

One prestige class I would love the chance to play is the Kingpin from City Works - Four levels in, and mooks on the street won't even attck you any more, they're so scared of you. And at ninth level you practically have the city's rulers in your pocket, gotta love it.

From the same book, you get the Speaker of the City prestige class, which is awesometastic in flavour, but could use some fixing as far as the class features go - the idea is that a character gains the protection of his/her chosen city, eventually becoming its Avatar, but... I keep meaning to 'fix' it and bring it to the table in my current campaign (city based), but I know I'd go overboard with the awesome...

[TroyXavier]

Gnome Rogue (3)/Swashbuckler (3)/Uncanny Trickster (3)/Battle Trickster (3)/SpyMaster(7)/Blade Bravo (1)

I've always wanted to play this build and have never had a chance. It came to mind when I wanted to build a martial gnome that stuck fairly closely to typical gnome values. Blade Bravo came from needing one more class level as well as liking the free goad feat.

[SuperPanda]

For myself I've always wanted to play in a campaign where I could viably pull of a Spymaster (I am more familiar with the 3.0 From Song and Silence but I know if got update) which is just an awesome idea but something that just can't hold its own in combat.

If I really wanted to go wild, I'd want to play a Spymaster and a Lasher (Song and Silence 3.0 not updated). The Lasher was an awesome concept class which was perhaps one of the most unoptimized classes in the game for 3.0. It was Indiana Jones without a gun or any meaningful way to hurt anyone for any reason.

Another class I thought could be fun would be the Virtuoso from Song and Silence, but in the group I was part of there were two DMs... myself and a person who vehemently hates bards because he thinks that they are a waste of party space... Needless to say, I pretty much always DM in that group.

[Chronos]

Loremaster is actually amazingly good, if only for the reason that you get 6+int skill points and UMD as a class skill.

Nitpick: 4+int. It's still better than the wizard's 2, though. And it's also really easy to qualify for, as a wizard. If nothing else, it gives you something to take in a core game while you're waiting for Archmage.

Tokiko Mima, I have a hard time justifying a greater spell advancement for Chameleon. I mean, what's to say that 15th-level Chameleon spellcasting is anything other than 4/4/4/4/4/3/1? Plus, you don't technically qualify for Abjurant Champion, since the abilities gained from Aptitude Focus (i.e., spellcasting) can't be used to qualify for PrCs. Still, 6th level arcane and divine spells isn't a bad thing, especially not when you can pull the Archivist's trick of cherrypicking them from lists where they're lower level.

My entry would be the Arcane Duelist. It requires spellcasting to get in, but doesn't advance or use spellcasting at all (not even the handful of bonus spells a Dragon Disciple gets, or the Imbue Arrow of an Arcane Archer). All of the class abilities are built around melee, but it has the poor BAB progression, like a wizard, and poor Fort saves. But it's great in Gestalt, if you can put something with good BAB on the other side. An epic weapon at character level 15? Power attacking for full on every attack roll, with no loss of attack bonus? Yes, please.

[SamTheCleric]

Ok. So let's start simple.

Who can make a dwarven defender that is actually playable?

[Talic]

NG Dwarf:

Warmage 4/Warblade 3/Jade Fire Phoenix Mage 10/Deepstone Sentinel 3

Cast as warmage 12 (caster level is Warmage 16)

Initiator Level 18

Base Stats:

Str 14
Dex 10
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 14


Feats: Battlecaster, Practiced Spellcaster (Warmage)

1st Battlecaster
3rd Practiced spellcaster (Warmage)
4th: (+1 Str)
6th Stone Power
8th: (+1 Str)
9th Vital Recovery
12th: (+1 Dex),
15th: Evasive Reflexes
16th: (+1 Str),
18th: Animal Devotion
20th: (+1 Str)

Need Balance 13, concentration 9, spellcraft 4, know (arcana) 2, know (history) 2, know (religion) 2.

Get Deepstone sentinel to 3 as soon as possible (level 12-15), then return to JPM until 19. Cap out with Deepstone Sentinel 4.

Focus on Stone Dragon school (Greatsword). Use Warmage spells for damage.

Ideal items by level 20: Mithral Full Plate+1 Heavy Fort, Gloves of Dex +2, Adamantine Greatsword +1 (Wounding), Ring of Blinking, Belt of Str +6, Headband of intellect +6, Suit to taste.

Idea: Use deepstone sentinel's 2 stance ability. Initiate Mountain Fortress stance and either mystic phoenix or Firebird stance (Based on Fire damage or DR, whichever you prefer).

Use magic items to establish miss chances, use spells for offense. When Animal devotion (ape) is active, with belt, at level 20, you'll have 34 Str, which will add +13 to the DC of Deepstone sentinel abilities. Int will be 22, for a +6, and will increase warmage edge, and DC of firebird stance damage.

If you cast fire spells, stick with firebird stance, otherwise, Mystic Phoenix stance gives up to DR 10/evil.

Jade Fire Phoenix Mage AND Deepstone Sentinel FTW.

[Adumbration]

Geomancer. The fluff is so good - in my opinion - but is spoiled by the fact that you need arcane levels to get it. Why couldn't they just make it a straight divine class?

[Charlie Kemek]

uh, talic, you know that charisma is a warmage's casting stat? as your character has a 6 cha, they can't cast warmage spells.

[Thinker]

I want to play an Archivist 1/Wizard 4/Dweomerkeeper 7/Archmage 5/Dweomerkeeper +3.

[Keld Denar]

War Chanter: Want to know why? Just listen to this.
"'Land of song,' cried the warrior bard,/'Though all the world betrays thee,/One sword, at least, thy right shall guard,/One faithful harp shall praise thee.'"
In the event he hits 0 HP, his last standard action will be an attempt to sunder his harp.

Warchanter is actually a pretty strong option for a bard. The 3rd level ability "Inspire Recklessness" is pretty much the exact same ability as Shocktroopers "Heedless Charge" except that it doesn't have to be used in a charge. That means that a Warchanter can inspire a fighter to recklessness who then full attacks from his AC instead of his AB, allowing him to gain major bonus damage without sacrificing accuracy. Its great in a game where the DM doesn't allow pounce cheese, since pounce + Shocktrooper + Leap Attack is superior to this in every way. Still, its a very strong option for non-pouncing melee types if you can get that full attack going. Just make sure there is a cleric behind you with Delay Death handy, just in case you don't take out whatever you were trying to kill with that full PA full attack....

[Talic]

uh, talic, you know that charisma is a warmage's casting stat? as your character has a 6 cha, they can't cast warmage spells.

Fixed. Whoops, forgot the dual blah casting stuff. Cha for spells, Int for damamge, sigh.

[Tokiko Mima]

Tokiko Mima, I have a hard time justifying a greater spell advancement for Chameleon. I mean, what's to say that 15th-level Chameleon spellcasting is anything other than 4/4/4/4/4/3/1? Plus, you don't technically qualify for Abjurant Champion, since the abilities gained from Aptitude Focus (i.e., spellcasting) can't be used to qualify for PrCs. Still, 6th level arcane and divine spells isn't a bad thing, especially not when you can pull the Archivist's trick of cherrypicking them from lists where they're lower level.

Meanie!

My justification for the additional spellcasting is that chameleon spellcasting follows a very regular pattern of a spell level gained every 2 levels, just like almost all full casters. I know it's not RAW, that's why I said you'd have to get it approved via a nice GM.

You technically cannot advance any PrC's spellcasting past the PrC's level limit via another PrC which is why PrC spellcasting usually sucks and no one bothers with it. It's one of those rules that I think is more for the ease of the game developers (they don't have to consider and print what happens when players add more spellcasting, because they can't) than really important to game balance.

Though I am interested in why you think I cannot use Aptitude Focus spellcasting to qualify for other PrC's. Is there a rule in Races of Destiny on that that I missed?

My entry would be the Arcane Duelist. It requires spellcasting to get in, but doesn't advance or use spellcasting at all (not even the handful of bonus spells a Dragon Disciple gets, or the Imbue Arrow of an Arcane Archer). All of the class abilities are built around melee, but it has the poor BAB progression, like a wizard, and poor Fort saves. But it's great in Gestalt, if you can put something with good BAB on the other side. An epic weapon at character level 15? Power attacking for full on every attack roll, with no loss of attack bonus? Yes, please.

A good way to qualify is to dip into assassin or avenger at level 6 and have a 12+ Intelligence. It's easy to qualify for, and a nice dip overall. Dexterous attack also MORE than makes up for the PrC's weak BAB. It's very, very easy to add damage to your weapon, and Dexterous Attack can transform any of that back into attack bonus on a 1 for 1 basis.

[Person_Man]

Skullclan Hunter

Eleven Eyes of Xanathar: There are a ton of PrC that essentially turn you into something else - a dragon, elemental, undead, beholder, whatever. I love the idea. But most (all?) of them suck, because they're far less powerful then Polymorph or Wildshape, and lack the BAB/feats/abilities needed to compete with melee classes.

Ashworm Dragoon (Sandstorm): Assuming you don't want a Halfling Outrider Devoted Tracker Supermount or Dragon Cohort, this is probably one of the best and most overlooked mounted PrC in the game. The Spice must flow!!!

[SamTheCleric]

I -love- skullclan hunter... but I just can't play one... you waste that tasty cleric spellcasting.

[Bosaxon]

I've always wanted to do something based around the Primeval, and with our last 3.x campaign, a gestalt game, I've decided to do it.

Fighter2/Human Paragon3/Barbarian6//Ranger8/Primeval 3.

The purpose of the non-ranger side is to be proficient in something other than animalistic combat, namely a thrown weapons, most likely the harpoon. The ranger side is for qualifications and skill points.