Weakling Gestalt in a Normal Game

[SilverClawShift]

I present a question to the world at large.

My groups current campaign is nearing its climax, so aside from playing, we're also working out what our next game is going to be. Our DM says he has an idea for an adventure, and there's nothing inherent in the adventure that would limit class or race selection. So we've essentially (as per usual) got free reign on making our characters.

There's a character I've wanted to play for a while now, a derranged and mentally fractured 'witch' character who's never seen without a mask. The idea would be a bit of a theurge character, someone who had a lot of talent for curative magic and potion brewing, but with miscellaneous magical abilities that were keyed to various fractured segments of her personality.
The perfect way to get that across would be a mixture of the Healer base class (weak but usefull) and the Binder base class from Tome of Magic. Our DM has discussed letting me play a Healer and craft masks that act to let me bind specific vestiges.

Recently though, the two of us talked about it again, and it occured to him that the Healer is on the weak side in terms of raw game power. He then noted that the Binder and the Healer overlap a lot as far as mechanics go.
So currently, we're toying with the possibility of me being a Gestalt human Binder/Healer. They each get D8 hit die, and the same strong and weak saving throws. BAB would be bumped up to 3/4 from the Binder, and skill points would be up to 4 from the healer, but the class skill lists mostly overlap as well.

I don't think the other players will mind me being a severely under-optimsed gestalt character. We're a pretty cooperative group, and a healer/binder gestalt isn't really a powerhouse. My question to everyone is how you'd react to having one gestalt character in a non-gestalt game, if you knew they'd still be in the same power-tier as everyone else.

[Skjaldbakka]

From personal experience, I have found that a gestalt character balances almost perfectly with non-gestalt characters if you halve the XP for the gestalt character (XP, not level).

I had two PCs like that in a two and a half year campaign a few years back.

[CASTLEMIKE]

For lesser gestalt consider just add the page DMG page 175 Witch NPC class to the PC as either a Battle Witch Sorcerer or Witch Sorcerer for the limited known spells or the GitPG Gleaner NPC for some healing. which would basically be +1 LA lesser gestalt compared to +2 LA regular gestalt.

[Stycotl]

i haven't done the math, but i don't think that halving the experience would be justified. it certainly might depend on the classes you gestalt with, but i ran a 25% xp penalty once and it was hard to keep that gestalt up on power with the other characters. certainly part of it was his item creation feats, but others created items as well, though not as many. anyway, i think it just comes down to the individual party, and the dm's game style too.

[Skjaldbakka]

Keep in mind that this doesn't work if you are lazy with the XP. You have to remember to award the gestalt character XP appropriate for his level, and not treat him as if he were the same level as the rest of the party when assigning XP awards. The gestalt character will wind up at about 3/4 the party's level this way, most of the time.

[Xefas]

I say run the Healer//Binder with no penalties or handicaps to anything.

Considering all the overlap, I don't think you'll really even come close to a full-caster anyway, so just go for it.

[sonofzeal]

I say run the Healer//Binder with no penalties or handicaps to anything.

Considering all the overlap, I don't think you'll really even come close to a full-caster anyway, so just go for it.

Agreed, and you still have to deal with all sorts of action economy issues.

One question though - what level is this at? You'll be more balanced at mid/high levels than at low ones where good healing is harder to come by. Also, I'd ditch the unicorn.

[Nohwl]

if it overlaps that much, i think it should be treated as a normal character.

[SilverClawShift]

Agreed, and you still have to deal with all sorts of action economy issues.

One question though - what level is this at? You'll be more balanced at mid/high levels than at low ones where good healing is harder to come by. Also, I'd ditch the unicorn.

We're starting at level 1. Whenever our DM says he "has an idea for a campaign", that almost always means we're starting low and ending high (we like 1-20 games actually).

And yes, I'm allready looking at alternate mounts/companions. I think I'm going to see if I can get a black cat familiar instead of the unicorn.

For what it's worth, two of the other players are going to be a Raptoran Factotum and a Halfling Beguiler. I certainly won't be showing the party up.

[SadisticFishing]

Binder is actually quite powerful. Giving it full healing progression on the side? Not something I'd even want to consider.

Instead, consider altering the Anima Mage prestige class until you have something you want - it's very easy to get into early (Healer 3/Binder 1, Improved Binding), so it won't be like you're spending a ton of time not playing your character...

My advice would be to change no abilities, except make it Divine instead of Arcane. Strong, but not nearly as over the top as letting 1 player play gestalt...

[Draz74]

I say "go for it" and you'll probably be OK.

You certainly shouldn't overshadow the Beguiler by any means. The Factotum should be OK too, if he picks feats well and can multiclass appropriately.

If you do end up being too powerful, one easy way for the DM to tone down your character is to force you to take the weak Master of Masks prestige class. It could replace both of your normal classes (but also advance both your Healer spellcasting and your Soul Binding ability).

Heh. (Healer//Binder)/Master of Masks. What an interesting character concept!

[Prometheus]

This is a rather good and detailed homebrew witch class that you might prefer.

As a homebrew, I'm certain you can add or alter the Dabble and Vulnerability class skills to fit your character design most effectively. Alternatively alter the spell-list with splat-books as you and your DM see fit.

[Xefas]

Binder is actually quite powerful.

At first, I laughed, but then I realized the posted date was today. Isn't it a little late for this sort of thing? I thought we'd all gotten it out of our systems yesterday.

[Thrawn183]

There's nothing wrong with it. Just be absolutely sure that your character is weaker than the others. You really don't want people to feel like you got some kind of an advantage with your character. It breeds resentment, and resentment is the campaign killer.

[The_Snark]

At first, I laughed, but then I realized the posted date was today. Isn't it a little late for this sort of thing? I thought we'd all gotten it out of our systems yesterday.

Have you played one? They're no full spellcaster, that's for sure, but they can keep up with the rogues and psychic warriors pretty easily if well played. They're not powerhouses, but they aren't laughable, either.

I guess you could adapt Anima Mage for this; just switch arcane spells for divine spells, and disregard the alignment bit if necessary. The healer's abilities aren't giving you all that much, but it does mean binding Buer usually won't be necessary and you'll be able to remove miscellaneous status afflictions. Alternatively, gestalt with LA +1 (LA +2 at higher levels, possibly) would probably work out also if you're not optimizing, but it's probably good to make sure you optimize a bit less than the rest of the group if you go for that. A gestalt character of any sort is going to seem pretty versatile compared with single-class fighters.