Alpha Release 2 out at Paizo

[CASTLEMIKE]

Alpha Release 2 is out at Paizo now.

I really didn't care for the sorcerer fix although they were quiet flavorful they paled in comparison to the PF Universalist Wizard.

Still digesting the rest of the material.

Might be worth a look if you have some free time.

[AlterForm]

Typing as I skim.

Glad to see they kept the super-model pics for the races. I don't know why, but I really like them.

Did Elves have +2 INT in AR1? With +2/+2/-2 DEX/INT/CON they're practically begging you to make a wizard with 'em.

Did they have a choice of favored class in AR1? That's also cool. Nice choice.

Artwork still kicks ass. Lots of ass.

Except for some. Running list of art which missed the mark: Druid (wtf with her hair?), Page 54 (same pic on page 49. oops.), Page 102 (recycled pic again. I guess they're just filler for now?),

Paladin has a step in the right direction. I don't think the auras don't quite make up for it, though. The Code is still there. More info on alternate mounts would be nice as well.

Sorcerer bloodlines are...interesting. I wonder if it's possible to put yourself in a position where you qualify for none of your bonus feats. Bloodline traits (teehee, kekkei genkais ) look flavorful and functional. I haven't looked at them in depth yet though.

Skills. Hot dawg, the new system looks...like...intuitive. And fun. And not a hassle if I take classes with different skills and SP amounts.

Combat feats. Looks good. I think they'd be well-served to spell out that activating (or changing) combat feats is a free action performable once per round.

DODGE DOESN'T SUCK AS BADLY. It' still a little lack luster though.

I miss my manyshot.

CMB. They say they're harder to pull off than in standard 3.5. Not sure I like that; sundering/bullrushing/grappling/etc should be a viable strategy for PCs.

Grapple seems easier. I dunno.

Polymorph fix has been added. Again, interesting, but not earth-shattering IMO.

I like their new stat blocks for spells.

Ability-boosting items. Interesting idea. I look forward to seeing how this plays out.

Item creation. Time runs short for me; did they make the system for this any better?

Poisons. Same as item creation.

[Cainen]

I loathed Alpha 1 due to an overabundance of stupid design choices, but I'm looking at 2 to see if they improved at all.

[Zeful]

Do you still have to register to download the PDF?

[Cainen]

Yes.

Also, what the hell. I looked at the Sorceror and saw a bloodline as a class feature. I was like "YES! THIS IS AWESOME!"

A scrolldown later and seeing like eight bloodline bonus feats among natural progressions, "WHY DID YOU DO THIS?"

[Matthew]

Is this the second release? I got an email notification from them about the second release last month, but haven't heard anything since.

[Skjaldbakka]

I loathed Alpha 1 due to an overabundance of stupid design choices, but I'm looking at 2 to see if they improved at all.

I loath 4E for the same reasons. Unlike 4E, Paizo listened to player feedback and fixed/removed the only stupid design choice I had heard about (the feat chaining).

[CASTLEMIKE]

Is this the second release? I got an email notification from them about the second release last month, but haven't heard anything since.

Yes it is. Saw a post asking when the third release was coming out.

[Reel On, Love]

I loath 4E for the same reasons. Unlike 4E, Paizo listened to player feedback and fixed/removed the only stupid design choice I had heard about (the feat chaining).

Man, 4E design is awesome. I ran a short one-shot using the pregenerated characters and a bunch of kobolds and etc. The design choices all make it run really, really well.

[Matthew]

Right. I am waiting on the third release yet, then.

[KIDS]

That is nice but no reason for me to switch to it just yet; I'll try out new books and 4E first, but if they suck... hey, here is a window of opportunity!

[Skjaldbakka]

Man, 4E design is awesome. I ran a short one-shot using the pregenerated characters and a bunch of kobolds and etc. The design choices all make it run really, really well.

Awesome for you. Really Expensive Tinder at best for me. Pathfinder is for us folks that HATE 4E.


there, now it is explicitely stated.

[RukiTanuki]

That's perfectly reasonable, and no one needs to be told that their decision is wrong. :)

(I'm not beating people with the olive branch at this point, am I?)

[Matthew]

Hey, got my email about Alpha 2 today. I will give it a download and read over later.

[Skjaldbakka]

A few interesting quirks I picked up on.

-There are now rules for sundering armor.

-Firing into a grapple is no longer at any special penalty.

A few notes on errors caused by it still being in playtesting:

Paladins are supposed to have a d10 HD. The d8 HD is a typo.
The current rules for how the new skill system relates to entering PrCs has been officially stated to be a temporary "band-aid" solution, as the rules for PrCs are still not worked out yet.

[Matthew]

I am glad to see that they went back to the skill point system, it just wouldn't be D20 without it.

I'm not all that convinced that combining all these skills is necessary, but I suppose it can't really hurt. Power Attack is still the stupid 3.5 version, but at least they've limited it by BAB or Strength Bonus, whichever is worse.

[Repeekluos]

I got mine today. What I don’t understand is why go through the trouble of making something better (in terms of power) and then lower the power level of other things. I like the idea of the CMB. What I don’t like is the fact that the CMB makes it harder to accomplish what your trying to do. Grappling is amazingly simple now, but its not a viable option. I have already played 5 games using that particular system, and the guy playing the grappler only managed to pin one thing. A gnome sorcerer. Even against monsters his size he could only hold them, only to have them break free on their round, or attack him while held.

The go through the trouble of making fighter better as a class, only to limit one of his best feats (power attack). That feat had its problems, but at least it made the greatsword wielding moron feel like he was participating. They added no tanking options, and his versatility has improved 0%. Wizard is wizard, but with more stuff, so where is the balance? Cleric got less spells, but better healing options, so that didn’t change much of anything. Where is the balance there? I read Druid, but unfortunately I haven’t gotten to read the Beast Shape spell line.

Sorcerer is a step in the right direction, as is Paladin and Barbarian. I like the flavor, and added options. Pally might actually be worth playing through. You get immunity to a lot of stuff, better healing options, and more choices. Also, a banishing smite is funny.

The one thing I don’t see in all of this is where the balance is. Casters are still casters, and melee is still melee. Its still very one sided.

[Matthew]

Got to agree with you there, Repeekluos. I was also looking for Pathfinder to be a better balanced version of D20 1e, but it's shaping up to be even less so than it's predecessor. Very worrying when one considers that the main selling point of D20 2e is likely to be 'better balance'. I suppose, though, that if they revise or limit the spell lists in Pathfinder, that would go further towards balancing the classes than any number of other small changes.

[CASTLEMIKE]

Polymorph school is getting toned down.

They need to fix the Universalist Wizard with Limited Wish and Wish as Spell like abilities though.

[Gralamin]

They need to bump up Abjuration focused specialists. I don't see why they have such a fixture with elemental defenses.

[Yakk]

Meh, have to jump through hoops to download it. :/

Why can't they just put it up on an open link?

[Azerian Kelimon]

Meh. So they did some good things and some massive screw ups?

Typical. Why are there so FEW companies that know when to stop adding or taking?

Really, the fixes for the classes aren't so complicated. Let fighter's take feats that grant them special combat skills a la overrun or charge but USEFUL, paladin's get Onewingedangel's fix, Barbs get both rage and whirling frenzy but no ACF's, rogues get penetrating strike, and casters use the shadowcaster spell progression and gain extra spells at half the rate presented int he PHB.

There. Done. Yes, it still has to be polished, but that makes the game much more balanced.

Oh, and no monks. Unless you ToB, they're screwed.

[Renegade Paladin]

Meh, have to jump through hoops to download it. :/

Why can't they just put it up on an open link?

So they know who to blame if someone starts printing copies and selling; they watermark every separate PDF.

[Matthew]

I have been musing on the PathFinder version of Power Attack. I m proposing this version to them:

POWER ATTACK
You can make exceptionally deadly melee attacks by sacrificing accuracy for strength.
Prerequisite: Str 13, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: Add an amount up to your Strength bonus or base attack bonus (whichever is lower) to your melee damage rolls for one round (in addition to the normal damage modifier from a high Strength score). Subtract the same amount from your melee attack rolls for 1 round.
Special: If your attacks are made with a two-handed weapon, you may add up to 1.5 times your Strength bonus, provided the result is equal or less than your base attack bonus.

[Lord Tataraus]

Oh, and no monks. Unless you ToB, they're screwed.

Monks, Rangers, and Bards will be released in Alpha 3. One of the biggest things is the changes to combat and the Polymorph fix, also remember that only 1/4 the spells have been released, it is a work in progress.

[Matthew]

Copy/pasted from my post at Paizo Power Attack

Assuming that Fighters need all the help they can get past about Level 5. I would be willingto go as far as:

IMPROVED POWER ATTACK
Prerequisites: Base Attack bonus +6, Power Attack,
Benefit: Bonus damage from Power Attack is doubled.

GREATER POWER ATTACK
Prerequisites: Base Attack bonus +11, Power Attack, Improved Power Attack,
Benefit: Bonus damage from Power Attack is tripled.

PERFECT POWER ATTACK
Prerequisites: Base Attack bonus +16, Power Attack, Improved Power Attack, Greater Power Attack,
Benefit: Bonus damage from Power Attack is quadripled.

Level 5 Fighter
Attributes: Strength 20
Feats: Power Attack
Equipment: Long Sword +2, Large Shield,
Attack: +12 (1d8+7)
Power Attack: +7 (1d8+12)

Level 10 Fighter
Attributes: Strength 24
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Power Attack,
Equipment: Long Sword +3, Large Shield,
Attack: +20 (1d8+10)
Power Attack: +13 (1d8+24)

Level 15 Fighter
Attributes: Strength 28
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Power Attack, Greater Power Attack,
Equipment: Long Sword +4, Large Shield,
Attack: +28 (1d8+13)
Power Attack: +19 (1d8+40)

Level 20 Fighter
Attributes: Strength 30
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Power Attack, Greater Power Attack, Perfect Power Attack,
Equipment: Long Sword +5, Large Shield,
Attack: +35 (1d8+15)
Power Attack: +25 (1d8+55)

Level 5 Fighter
Attributes: Strength 20
Feats: Power Attack
Equipment: Great Axe +2,
Attack: +12 (1d12+9)
Power Attack: +7 (1d12+14)

Level 10 Fighter
Attributes: Strength 24
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Power Attack,
Equipment: Great Axe +3,
Attack: +20 (1d12+13)
Power Attack: +10 (1d12+33)

Level 15 Fighter
Attributes: Strength 28
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Power Attack, Greater Power Attack,
Equipment: Great Axe +4,
Attack: +28 (1d8+17)
Power Attack: +15 (1d12+56)

Level 20 Fighter
Attributes: Strength 30
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Power Attack, Greater Power Attack, Perfect Power Attack,
Equipment: Great Axe +5,
Attack: +35 (1d12+20)
Power Attack: +20 (1d12+80)

Yeah, I'd be up for that.

[Yakk]

First they have to design a damage curve: in one round at level X, what is the target damage for a character against an appropriate opponent?

This influences the "power curve" of the game: how much weaker is a level X creature than a level X+Y creature?

...

How about a really simple design:
Power Attack: Take a -5 penalty to hit in exchange for doing 2x damage.

Improved Power Attack: Take a -10 penalty in exchange for 3x damage.

Greater Power Attack: Take a -15 penalty in exchange for 4x damage.

Perfect Power Attack: Take a -20 penalty in exchange for 5x damage.

This applies to all damage from the attack, which prevents other sources of +damage from being rendered useless compared to power attack damage. Possibly it would be treated as a form of auto-crit?

This produces:

Level 5 Fighter
Attributes: Strength 20
Feats: Power Attack
Equipment: Long Sword +2, Large Shield,
Attack: +12 (1d8+7) aka 11.5
Power Attack: +7 (2d8+14) aka 23

Level 10 Fighter
Attributes: Strength 24
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Power Attack,
Equipment: Long Sword +3, Large Shield,
Attack: +20 (1d8+10) aka 14.5
Power Attack: +15 (2d8+20) aka 29
Power Attack: +10 (3d8+30) aka 43.5

Level 15 Fighter
Attributes: Strength 28
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Power Attack, Greater Power Attack,
Equipment: Long Sword +4, Large Shield,
Attack: +28 (1d8+13) aka 17.5
Power Attack: +23 (2d8+26) aka 35
Power Attack: +18 (3d8+39) aka 52.5
Power Attack: +13 (4d8+52) aka 70

Level 20 Fighter
Attributes: Strength 30
Feats: Power Attack, Improved Power Attack, Greater Power Attack, Perfect Power Attack,
Equipment: Long Sword +5, Large Shield,
Attack: +35 (1d8+15) aka 19.5
Power Attack: +30 (2d8+30) aka 39
Power Attack: +25 (3d8+45) aka 58.5
Power Attack: +20 (4d8+60) aka 78
Power Attack: +15 (5d8+75) aka 97.5

[Lord Tataraus]

Well, I know there is a push (with me as one of the leaders) for all class feature bonus damage to be changed to +1d6/4 levels (including the Evoker Specialist feature, excluding all the caster 1d6 +1/2 level Acid Darts and things). That would really help the damage curve in my opinion, especially fighter because his Weapon Training gives +1d6/4 levels flat bonus on all attacks with weapons of the selected group whereas every other class has to meet certain criteria to get their bonus damage.

[Matthew]

First they have to design a damage curve: in one round at level X, what is the target damage for a character against an appropriate opponent?

This influences the "power curve" of the game: how much weaker is a level X creature than a level X+Y creature?

...

How about a really simple design:
Power Attack: Take a -5 penalty to hit in exchange for doing 2x damage.

Improved Power Attack: Take a -10 penalty in exchange for 3x damage.

Greater Power Attack: Take a -15 penalty in exchange for 4x damage.

Perfect Power Attack: Take a -20 penalty in exchange for 5x damage.

This applies to all damage from the attack, which prevents other sources of +damage from being rendered useless compared to power attack damage. Possibly it would be treated as a form of auto-crit?

Hmmn. Problem with that, for me, is that the power curve is subject to the 'base damage', meaning that the numbers are integrated (rather than isolated) and have the potential to get too high. I guess the integration is what you find attractive, but I prefer isolated systems that are more easily removed.

On another note, I really like their new approach to the skill system. Not surprising, since it's very similar to the approach I proposed a while back (except their version has a greater degree of backwards compatability).

Profession, Craft and Knowledge Skills are a bit tricky, but I think they're on the right track.

Class Skills = 3 + Ranks (1-20) + Attribute Modifier
Cross Classed Skills = 0 + Ranks (1-20) + Attribute Modifier

[Max Graeves]

Ugh...can someone please explain how the heck you track down the Alpha 2? I swear, Paizo's website is the most counter-intuitive website I've ever come across.

Edit: nm, I didn't realize that they just repackaged the alpha 2 with alpha 1 for dl.