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Thread: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
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2008-04-24, 03:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Some of your 4e Q's answered?
OK I have stumbled accross a thread here The OP claims to have held the new core books in his hands.
The good folk at Enworld have summerised Tanus's posts for your convieniance.
Originally Posted by The good folk over at Enworld
Also this Talus guy admits himself that he only got a quick look at them and so has no really indepth insights... it has also been discussed that the multiclassing revelation isn't the whole story
As the tealady says
Originally Posted by Charwoman Gene, over on Enworld.. yes I do love that site so sue me
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2008-04-24, 04:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's amswered?
The long class descriptions sound a little worrying; 3.5 class descriptions were starting to get pretty inflated towards the end, but they never had their own chapters (Tome of Magic doesn't count: they had their spell lists, associated monsters, etc in with them too).
I like more artwork, I don't care about the DM screen. Feat multiclassing sounds interesting, I liked the 'Ascetic X' and related feats in 3.5.
Not sure about rituals; aren't all classes meant to get rituals? Do the martial classes' rituals work differently? I'm having trouble imagining how they could be the same.
I like players not needing the DMG; needing it for wealth by level, magic items, etc was annoying.
I've heard about the complex skill checks before, and I like the sound of them. Apparently they'll be used for things other than social encounters as well.Thanks to Veera for the avatar.
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5E Sorcerous Origin: Arcanist
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2008-04-24, 04:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's amswered?
It sounds to me like if a Fighter takes the feat "Ritual Training" (just a guess at the name) then he can use any rituals the party comes across just as well as anyone else.
It's just that Wizards and Clerics get "Ritual Training" as a bonus feat at first level.
Which, this makes sense to me. If a Wizard can spend a couple years in study leaning how to make people's heads explode at 20 yards over the span of 3 seconds, then who's to say a Fighter can't spend a couple levels learning how to, over the span of 200 times the length of time, produce a lesser effect when the instructions are right on hand?5e D&D Mythos Classes
General Rules
Swordbearer Class
Cynosure Class
Mechanikos Class
Adversary Class
Discussion Thread
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2008-04-24, 04:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
I quite like the idea of the class section being a one stop shop as it were, I hate having to flick to x section to look at my spells, then y section to see my starting gold then friggin z section to look at the domains for various gods... gah. They will have to include 80 odd powers in each section, and cross classing tables/rules so it doesn't see that extreme.
Yeah I thought that too, and indeed have the same trouble envisioning how they will end up.
Yeah I just included that for completeness really.
... and how did I manage to screw up the thread title? ... *sigh*
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2008-04-24, 04:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
Almost forgot to add, social encounters seemreally cool. Different encounters rely on different skills and number of successes. Some skills can be used to cancel out other player's skills. An example would be: You need 4 successful skill checks to convince the king a man was guilty, you could choose from diplomacy, bluff or intimidate. The Vizier wants to convince the king otherwise, so he can use his bluff to cancel out a successful diplomacy check that the PC made, etc...
Sorry, someone had to
Hmm... how much can this source be trusted? If it's real, sounds like it'll be good.
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2008-04-24, 04:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
I make no claims as to the reliability of the source.
Go to the original thread and decide for yourself, based on how much you like what he's saying apparantly thats the only logical thing to do...
Sorry couldn't resist...
Anyhow, in fairness, who can vouch for any forum posters credentials?
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2008-04-24, 04:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
Blah. I'm iffy on the one stop shop idea, but I'm used to games formatting things linearly. "Start with this step, then this one, then this one" in character creation. I /do/ like that there'll be lots of material on each class though.
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2008-04-24, 05:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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2008-04-24, 05:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
Spelljammer?
Spelljammer?
They're bringing back Spelljammer? 4E now cannot come soon enough!As i walk through the valley of the shadow of death, i shall know no fear, for i have three lives remaining and god mode enabled.
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2008-04-24, 05:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
...Seriously? I missed that in there.
*Rechecks*
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2008-04-24, 05:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
4E Spelljammer I can see. But 4E Ravenloft? I don't see how you can do Ravenloft justice with 4E. PCs are too . . . stalwart for that.
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2008-04-24, 06:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
WOOHOO! ****ING YEAH, They're bringing Planescape back! I can't wait for 4e to come, so that I can have my philosophers with garrotes!
This tips me over to 4th ed unless it's a total disaster. All the GOOD CS' are coming back with 4th ed, at long last. I can't wait to see how Planescape will work now that out of combat interaction has a new, easier system.
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2008-04-24, 06:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
I can't say I buy any of the setting stuff. Sounds like made-up fanwank rumors. Why would WotC suddenly put so much effort into resurrection all the old settings? The previous model (licensing settings out to outside parties to develop) seemed a lot more sensible, anyway, what with the OGL.
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2008-04-24, 06:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
Maybe because THIS happened:
"Hey, Barney.
What up, Mike?
I was thinkin'...we're making a new edition, which is really, REALLY different from every previous one...
Yeah, so?
Well, many people are not gonna be happy with it?
Well, that's true. So, whachoo have in mind?
Bringing back the cult campaign settings which 3.5 didn't.
Hey, that DOES sound like a plan. If the geeks get sentimental, they'll go ahead and buy 4e to get to play those excellent settings. Good idea. Mike, you get a pay rise.
*Homerlike WOOHOO!*"
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2008-04-24, 07:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
Doesn't sound likely. Hasn't it already been stated that the Forgotten Realms setting, for instance, is going to get a total remake? Planescape already got screwed from here to Sunday in 3.5. It's obvious - necessary, even - that they're going to re-imagine the settings, if they do publish them. I doubt they'd have any illusions about the reactionary outcry at "ruining our old favorite settings!" (similar to the outcry about 4E in general).
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2008-04-24, 07:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
With years of abstinence in the middle, no one's going to complain even if they transform Spelljammer into Promethean: The Created and Planescape into Saint Seiya.
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2008-04-24, 07:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
You're optimistic. Wanna buy some real estate near Baghdad? The place is perfect for a holiday resort.
Seriously though, what you postulate doesn't sound very likely at all. I don't see how publishing all the old settings themselves is suddenly a good business decision. (It is, however, something that many fans would desperately want to believe. Heck, may some developer over at WotC did say it because it's what they want to believe.) Financially, they're sure to be better off concentrating on non-campaign products and on the big campaign settings. Dark Sun, Ravenloft, and the like are better campaign settings than FR or Greyhawk, but it's because they're specific; and because of the specificity, they each appeal to smaller crowds. WotC is all about the big audiences. (Which is probably a good way to avoid TSR's fate.)
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2008-04-24, 08:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
Except you know, that they've said each campaign setting is only going to have 3 books published in a year, and then they're done. So there will only be 3 FR 4e books total. Thats it. And it's going to be the same with Eberron. This means that there will be a lot less competition between the settings like there was in TSR's days.
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2008-04-24, 08:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
If this thing about Planescape coming back is true it's awesome, but I'm not sure I belive it. After all, they removed Great Wheel from core because it was "too complicated".
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2008-04-24, 08:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
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2008-04-24, 08:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
Which seems to be a definitive answer for Tsotha's doubts. With three setting books, there's 'nuff space for, say, 5 or 6 settings, easily.
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2008-04-24, 08:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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2008-04-24, 09:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
Last edited by Morty; 2008-04-24 at 09:12 AM.
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2008-04-24, 09:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
While that's true, everything we've seen about 4th Ed so far, including what was presented in the "Worlds and Monsters" seems to go against the grain of that thinking.
While WotC never officially put out a fully developed Planescape setting for 3.5, their adoption of the Great Wheel as official cosmology and the "Manual of the Planes" and "Planar Handbook" incorporated in a lot of Planescape fluff so that people could pretty much run a Planescape campaign or Planescape-like campaign easily enough if they were so inclined. (And even moreso if people used the stuff at Planewalker.org, which WotC was not a part of but they DID sanction, if I understand it correctly.)
More to the point, very little in core 3.5 directly conflicted with Planescape. You had the Great Wheel, Sigil, and the Blood War (Tanar'ri vs Baatezu) all intact right there in core. I could create a viable Planescape character with just the 3.5 core books.
It's very different with 4th Ed, where the new "background fluff" for the "Points of Light" setup is ENTIRELY different from how Planescape works. The look, the feel, the philosophy, the fluff, the crunch, all different. Why would they scrap the Great Wheel and all within it, only to say, "Oh, we'll bring it back later." That doesn't make any sense to me. It would take an incredible amount of work to re-work in what they scrapped--sure, different settings can have different cosmologies, but there would be so much one would have to learn/re-learn for a Planescape game it doesn't seem viable to me.
Unless they are making an entirely new setting and calling it Planescape (much like the new Forgotten Realms is really a re-imagining and not much like the old setting at all. Or for a non-gaming example, like how both Lindsay Wagner and Michelle Ryan both played characters known as "Jaime Sommers the Bionic Woman" on television, but the characters and situations were extremely different*). Which is quite possible...
...BUT is unlikely to draw in die-hard fans of the original (much like Forgotten Realms die-hards were outraged when they heard of the changes to their favorite setting). Sure, it may draw in new players and people who weren't into the old Planescape, but I'd wonder how fans of the older system would feel.
It all seems odd to me.... doesn't seem like a very profitable venture for them, and would take a lot of development time away from probably more profitable settings like Eberron and FR. I guess we'll have to get more information on it as it comes out.
As an aside, if they did do Planescape, I have to wonder if the new tieflings would replace Planescape's tieflings, or if they'd bring in a "new" race of humans with distant fiendish ancestors.
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2008-04-24, 11:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
Why would they bring the Great Wheel back? Pretty simple answer: lots of people like it. They felt they could do a better, more consistent cosmology, but WotC isn't stupid- if enough people like the Great Wheel, it'll be back.
Of course, it won't be in the core books as the default cosmology, but why should that matter? Both Forgotten Realms and Eberron have unique cosmologies that look nothing like the Astral Sea. We know for a fact that the Eberron cosmology isn't changing, so clearly they're not afraid to publish different versions, and since Planescape is pretty much all about the Great Wheel.... well, there you go.
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2008-04-24, 11:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
As an aside, if they did do Planescape, I have to wonder if the new tieflings would replace Planescape's tieflings, or if they'd bring in a "new" race of humans with distant fiendish ancestors.
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2008-04-24, 11:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
There are no subrace rules (drow, gold dwarf, etc.) in the PHB.
Also they are brining back spelljammer and planescape? Wow, i actually considering getting 4E just for that
Considering that all that is necessary to change over 4e Tieflings to 3.5e Tieflings is to replace "they made a deal with demons" with "they got it on with Demons," I'd say Tieflings are staying the same with some minor fluff changes. See: Eberron Mind Flayers and Dragons.
from
EELast edited by EvilElitest; 2008-04-24 at 11:25 AM.
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2008-04-24, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
If this stuff is true, then it looks pretty cool. The layout sounds cool (though I don't have any knowledge with which to make a relative judgement), and subraces always kinda pissed me off. Shorter monster entries is a good thing because they could get really long in the books, and even in the SRD could be godd*** huge.
I never got a chance to play Spelljammer, Dark Sun, or Ravenloft, so it would be cool to see them again.
Social Encounters seem like a VAST step up from anything that 3e even tried to do, and (potentially, not necessarily in practice) even a big step up from The Giant's Diplomacy fix.
All in all, this looks like a very interesting bit of info
I'll keep an open mind though because these snippets (the board the link goes to is down ) contradict a lot of what's been said already, and the multiclassing stuff seems a little inconsistant between the two posts, and I've been a Blizzard fan too long for those not to raise huge red flags for me. I'll wait for corroboration or (even better) official confirmation before assuming this stuff is set in stone or anything.SpoilerBossing Around Mad Cats for Fun and Profit: Let's Play MechCommander 2!
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2008-04-24, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
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2008-04-24, 12:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Some of your 4e Q's answered?
Wonder what the limits are for multiclassing.
Grabbing a Healing Word or Lay On Hands power would be handy, as it would give allow you to give any class considerable healing ability.