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Thread: Half-fiend
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2008-05-04, 07:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Half-fiend
Ok I am looking at them in the Savge Species but as I look at it there is no good point to them la +4 and you get nothing?
So... I know this is not right please inform me on what you do get. (or if SS is out dated?)
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2008-05-04, 07:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
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- Virginia
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2008-05-04, 07:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
Re: Half-fiend
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2008-05-04, 07:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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2008-05-04, 07:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2004
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Re: Half-fiend
http://www.systemreferencedocuments....tml#half-fiend
I dunno. The loss of hp isn't great, but at levels > 6, most of the other disadvantages are easily made up for with spell like abilities, bonuses to stats, and flight capabilities. And the DR and resistances, despite not being particularly high, are still pretty darn useful in a lot of situations. In all honesty, I always thought the half-fiend template is pretty good for a martially-oriented character.Last edited by Wizzardman; 2008-05-04 at 07:29 PM.
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2008-05-04, 07:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
Re: Half-fiend
Level buy off:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/ra...djustments.htm
From Unearthed Arcana, originally
HD = hit dice
hp = hit points
bab = base attack bonus
SR = spell resistance
LA = level adjustment
It's more than a loss of HP. The loss of 4 levels means you lose 4 BAB. For a martial build, that's going to translate to a loss of 4 damage (power attack), 8 damage (power attack with both hands) or 16 damage (power + leap attack with both hands). I've played templated characters alongside non-templated characters. You really have to work hard to make up, believe me. The difference only gets bigger as you gain levels, since the spell casters are getting access to better and better gear, and the +4 strength you got from the template is meaning less and less in terms of damage and to hit. In an ECL 5 game, that +4 = +2 to hit, which is going to be an 40% to hit of what the barbarian's BAB is. AT ECL 20, that +2 to hit is going to be 10% of BAB; and far less when you add up +5 weapons, buffs, and belts of giant strength.
Your saves will be worse off, especially will, since you don't get any wisdom buffs. That's never fun, failing will saves.
Your SLAs (spell like abilities) will be underpowered and old hat- when you hit ECL 20, the cleric will have been throwing Blasphemy/Holy Word around for the past 7 levels. In a non-epic game, blasphemy will be the highest SLA you ever get. Half celestial is a little better, since you get a good fly speed, which means you can hover.
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2008-05-04, 07:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Half-fiend
Originally Posted by Wizzardman
The Half-Fiend template works great for a maritally-oriented henchman provided the party isn't in the habit of optimization-heavy characters. The bonuses to STR and CON make him a better tank, and the DEX allows for lighter armor. Imagine if you combined that with some ToB stuff, like a Crusader. <shudders> That is pretty much an ultimate tank/bodyguard. <laments that no DM has yet allowed him to use ToB goodness>
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2008-05-04, 08:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
Re: Half-fiend
I'll point out that that was an ECL 16 character- you're unlikely see one in play alongside a bunch of level nines, since it'll 'll really outshine them. What with havig an ECL 50% higher than everyone else. It's a CR 12 challenge, which should certainly push the party to its limits. FB is also one of the cheesier charge builds out there; I would imagine that the danger of a frenzied ubercharger stems more from full BAB and power attack than a mediocre template.
The half fiend template can make for some fun on NPCs, for certain. There, the adjustment isn't so costly. Putting the template on something with low CR and lots of HD, for instance, can be quite fun. Giants with the template can really lay into the party with some nasty magic.
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2008-05-04, 08:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
Re: Half-fiend
Not to mention, if you have ToB in the midst, half fiend becomes even MORE filled with suck. You lose IL and get maneuevers later. Simply, it's sucky.
Really, if you want a good martial character, I could make a Swordsage or Warblade in ten seconds who will do more damage than a half fiend will see in it's life, and will do it sooner. Among other things, such as stunning just about any enemy, draining stats and levels, and leeching off life.
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2008-05-04, 08:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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2008-05-04, 08:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Half-fiend
Azerian, Cuddly... I'm well aware of all you've just stated. The application of the Half-Fiend template was pretty much another choice aimed at making sure this Orc wasn't so insanely powerful the party would have been slaughtered by him. If I had gone just straight down the ubercharger path (likely only using two levels of Fighter and six Frenzied Berserker), the party would be no more. Optimization is rarely considered at all around here. People think high-level monks are broken, even after I issued a challenge to someone and beat down his monk with ease using nothing but the PHB.
Regardless, methinks it might be better if either a straight humanoid were used or to just give a martially-oriented demon or devil those levels.
<continues to lament that he hasn't used ToB on the PC side of the DM screen>
Oh, and by the way, Cuddly... thanks for the evil idea. I'm starting to imagine that a pirate ship is going to be replacing its catapult fairly soon.
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