[4e] - Keep On Shadowfell Quick Start Rules

[SamTheCleric]

So I finally got my grubby hands on this 5 page guide. Instead of reading through it, I immediately dug out my scanner and scanned each page in.

First I scanned them as PDFs... but then realized that I had no where to host PDFs...

Instead you get lower quality JPGs.

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Page 5

Enjoy. Pick them apart. I'm going to grab some dinner and read them myself.

EDIT: Here's the PDF Versions

Page 1 - PDF
Page 2 - PDF
Page 3 - PDF
Page 4 - PDF
Page 5 - PDF

[Azerian Kelimon]

Adobe's site allows you to host PDF's. Could you use that to upload 'em?

[SamTheCleric]

Got a link? I'll upload em if I can find where.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Just open the Adobe reader, click on File, then click on Create Adobe PDF online.

[SamTheCleric]

The Adobe hosting didn't work out... I probably did it wrong.

I found a different site to host them though.

Page 1 - PDF
Page 2 - PDF
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Page 4 - PDF
Page 5 - PDF

[Azerian Kelimon]

Opportunity actions were interesting. For the rest, I'm giving it a big "UNCRUNCHYLICIOUS!"

Honestly, those quick rules are fail. Combat is well covered, but what can I SPECIFICALLY do with skills? It tells me nottin'.

[SamTheCleric]

Yeah, I think the details are in the DM's guide... and there's very little chance that I'll get ahold of that... especially since I'm playing through it.

[Azerian Kelimon]

That is horrible. Apparently the quick rule guy didn't learn that being at the mercy of a DM, even the best possible DM, is NOT good.

[SamTheCleric]

Well, we do get a basic description of the skills... that's something. And we now know that there IS a difference between trained and untrained benefits to skills.

[Project_Mayhem]

Might be worth updating the first post, because I know at least I strained my eyes reading the jpeg files before realising that you'd got the PDFs lower down.

[SamTheCleric]

Might be worth updating the first post, because I know at least I strained my eyes reading the jpeg files before realising that you'd got the PDFs lower down.

It shall be as you say. *Salute*

[skywalker]

That is horrible. Apparently the quick rule guy didn't learn that being at the mercy of a DM, even the best possible DM, is NOT good.

Welcome to my world. I actually just realized that these are the quickstart rules, and I have read them before. I just assumed that Wizards would give us something besides that to go on.

According to my DM, though, there's not much other generic rules not tied to the adventure in the DM's guide. For instance, if you remember my problem with bursts, apparently, that rule isn't even explained in the DM's guide. So there's literally no way to know what a "burst 1" is without having known about D&DXP.

[Starsinger]

That is horrible. Apparently the quick rule guy didn't learn that being at the mercy of a DM, even the best possible DM, is NOT good.

On the other hand, it is a module, so it will probably have spots in the GM part of the module saying "Have players roll a X check".

[Glawackus]

I'm amazed that there haven't been more responses to this. It seems like anything 4E-related turns into an eight-page affair.

How exactly would skill rules put you at the mercy of the DM?

[tyckspoon]

How exactly would skill rules put you at the mercy of the DM?

The lack of such rules puts you at the mercy of the DM. The quick-start packet doesn't tell the players what their skills do or how they work. If they want to do anything with them, they have to ask the DM if it's possible and how they can use the skill.

[RTGoodman]

Well, we got a little info we didn't already have (charge benefits, etc.). Overall, though, it's not that much new stuff. Thanks for uploading it, though - I won't be able to get it until sometime after the 20th (which is when I thought it came out), but it's cool to see some stuff.


EDIT: Just noticed - they still haven't clarified that you can't take actions when you're dead, and don't even define the "dead" condition!

[Theodoxus]

The grammar in it makes me shudder. I hope the editor for this rag didn't touch the rules proper. But be that as it may, why are only a few of the skills granted bonus abilities for being trained. It's almost as if they started coming up with neat abilities only trained folk get, then said 'meh, it's too much work, we'll go with this.'

More and more I'm happy I got a $50 Amazon gift card from work... reduced the cost of the core books to a managable amount, should I end up not liking them.

[Jarlax]

oh thank god it uses the NWN healing system (something i have always preferred over regular 1hp/level system and include in all my games) you rest and go back to full HP.

the short rest system seems fine, you fight, you rest, you fight again. and a challenging series of encounters may be one where rest is impossible between fights.

they actually outlined when certain effects occur which is very good. you take damage and the like first off but make saves against effects last thing on your turn. so thats good.

i don't like the new save system. i might change my mind in practice but "roll a d20 and get better than a 10" is just a complex way to say "you got a 50% chance to save against the effect, no matter your stats, your better off flipping a coin than rolling a dice"

so in the sleep example my only true defense is my will defense, after that i have a 50% to shrug the spell off no matter how high my will is. compared to the old system where my will value actually mattered against ongoing checks. i will wait for the full rules on this one, however if it stands as the quickplay rules state, i will be fixing that immediately.

Edit: that said this is a PC spell to use on monsters, so its actually kind of nice, i have 2 or 3 monsters asleep i don't need their stats, just to roll a D20 or flip a coin and i know if the effect is gone. i just dont want to see too much of this on monsters powers

[Rockphed]

i don't like the new save system. i might change my mind in practice but "roll a d20 and get better than a 10" is just a complex way to say "you got a 50% chance to save against the effect, no matter your stats, your better off flipping a coin than rolling a dice"

Actually, it is "Get a 10 or Better and you shrug whatever off." This means a 55% chance for any ongoing effect to end.

[SamTheCleric]

And there are ways to improve your saves... I believe a Human Racial Feat gave you +1 to saving throws.

And Halflings have +5 to saving throws vs fear effects.

[Jarlax]

And there are ways to improve your saves... I believe a Human Racial Feat gave you +1 to saving throws.

And Halflings have +5 to saving throws vs fear effects.

and thats what im talking about. as written you have a 55% chance to succeed no matter your class, level, etc. but in practice your actually going to be provided with buffs to the base roll through spells, racial features etc. which is fine by me.

[Saph]

Hmm. One thing I'm noticing is that it's now incredibly hard to kill a PC by damaging them.

You don't die until you reach negative your Bloodied number, which is half your HP. So a character with 60 HP can't be killed through attacks unless they take him all the way to -30 (which is not going to happen in any normal fight, especially since critical hits have been weakened).

Bleeding to death is a very slow process as well, taking a minimum of three turns and more likely four to six. And any healing makes you conscious again.

- Saph

[Trog]

Mah. Useless fluff. I pretty much have seen all of this before. Oh well.

*Twiddles thumbs. Waits for more relevant updates. Sharpens his d20*