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2008-06-05, 01:55 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
[4e] Sneaky Rogues and other Combat Skills
Sneak in combat looks really sick.
If there is a region of concealment (a fog bank or a forest, say), you can on each turn move positions, make a stealth check, hide, get combat advantage, then do a thrown attack for your sneak attack damage.
That could be much easier than going off and actually flanking bad guys. :) However, the bad guys can run into your cover and try to flush you out.
On a somewhat similar note, if you can pull off a high Intimidate skill, you can do "save or lose" intimidates on bloodied foes to make them surrender (Hostile gives +10 to the will defense -- but Trained + Skill Focus can bring that into the range where you have a 25% to 50% chance of making a target give up), and you can Intimidate multiple bloodied targets at once.
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2008-06-05, 04:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- London, England.
Re: [4e] Sneaky Rogues and other Combat Skills
Yeah, I've been thinking about Stealth in combat, too. Really nice if you're a ranged character sniping from the woods. Shoot, hide, repeat. You should have a better-than-average chance of beating their Perception check each round.
The only drawback is that the enemies can just turn around and hit your teammates, which might not make you many friends . . .
- SaphI'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and the final book in the series, Risen, is out as of December 2021. For updates, check my blog!
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2008-06-05, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
Re: [4e] Sneaky Rogues and other Combat Skills
It can be a lot worse, trust me.
For example, Hide from the Light. Give the rogue a crossbow, let him go in front, and he'll solo any encounter that doesn't see through invisibility.
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2008-06-05, 04:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- Knoxville, TN
- Gender
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2008-06-05, 04:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
- Location
Re: [4e] Sneaky Rogues and other Combat Skills
Picture a party of all rogues with crossbows.
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2008-06-05, 05:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: [4e] Sneaky Rogues and other Combat Skills
To be fair, you can work out where the rogue is. :) But ya, that's sick.
(Hide from the Light is a full-encounter daily invisibility power, utility 22, that lets you make at-will/basic attacks and move slowly.)
Hide in Plain Sight also is sick.
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2008-06-05, 05:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: [4e] Sneaky Rogues and other Combat Skills
Yeah, and then you can also get some nifty stuff from the Master Infiltrator Paragon Path.
Ranged Rogues are really good. Not feasible early on, but they get pretty scary later on.
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2008-06-05, 06:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
- Location
- NYC
Re: [4e] Sneaky Rogues and other Combat Skills
Note that the DMG states that "the target’s general attitude toward you and other conditional modifiers (such as what you might be seeking to accomplish or what you’re asking for) might apply to the DC."
This means that the DC can be upped by the DM if the enemies are particularly bloodthirsty, well-disciplined, etc., or for other reasons.
+10 is simply the base modifier for them being hostile to you. Consider that someone who you even attempt to Intimidate is considered Hostile to you, and you see that Hostile has changed from 3e to 4e; if you're actively combating them, that can easily raise the DC as well by itself. Or if they have good reason to think that you're going to kill them anyway if they surrender. Or any of a myriad of things.
So "Intimidate vs. Will +10, succeed and the enemies surrender" isn't quite accurate. For instance, one of my PCs tried this in a fight against Kobolds. Since the entry in KotS states that they "fight to the death" because they know that the consequences of not doing so are harsh, I upped the DC by a fair margin. Also, Irontooth was in his Blood Frenzy, which I figured would also make him less amenable to simply giving up.Last edited by JaxGaret; 2008-06-05 at 06:36 PM.
You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist. - Friedrich Nietzsche
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2008-06-05, 06:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Location
- In front of a Computer
Re: [4e] Sneaky Rogues and other Combat Skills
Yea, though I walk through the valley of Roy being really pissed, I shall fear no thwacking, for my lute and my banjo, they comfort me.
Dragons: color-coded for YOUR convenience.
-Elan, not useless, but use-impared
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2008-06-05, 06:28 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
- Location
Re: [4e] Sneaky Rogues and other Combat Skills
Using a regular Crossbow, rogues can do 3d8+Modifier with a standard attack. The difficulty is that you can't gain sneak attack via flanking, so will have to use concealment instead.
Comparison of 2 level 1 rogue builds
Sniper Rogue: 3d8+5=18.5 average damage
Scoundrel Rogue: 1d4+2d8+3+5=19.5 average damage
The Sniper Rogue requires a less refined build, attacks from a distance while receiving cover and concealment, and doesn't need allies to flank the target. The Scoundrel's only advantage is that concealment is hard to get in some circumstances (IE dungeon hallway rather than forest camp), while meatshields are always handy in the party, and +1 damage.
I say that the Sniper Rogue is better, but that depends on the ease of which it can get combat advantage via sneakiness.Last edited by wodan46; 2008-06-05 at 06:35 PM.
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2008-06-05, 06:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- London, England.
Re: [4e] Sneaky Rogues and other Combat Skills
Yeah, but you can do the woodland sniping thing at level 1. Even without focusing on it, any rogue or archery ranger will have a Stealth of +8 or +9. That's enough to give good odds against the Perception scores of most monsters, and without sacrificing any feats or AC.
- SaphI'm the author of the Alex Verus series of urban fantasy novels. Fated is the first, and the final book in the series, Risen, is out as of December 2021. For updates, check my blog!