4e: Healing Potions use Surges

[wodan46]

It was buried fairly deep into the magic equipment section, but Healing Potions use up a surge in return for giving a specific amount of HP (sorry Dragonborns).

The basic Healing Potion gives 10 HP, and costs 50 GP. Higher level potions give 25 HP and 50 HP, but at magnitudes higher costs, and are probably usable only once you each Paragon and Epic Tiers respectively before they become reasonable to buy.

Basically, no party is gonna go without a few of these to revive your Leader when he goes and gets himself knocked out, or if you don't have a Leader in your party at all. Even at level 1, your party can afford a potion or 2. Once you get a few levels, you can easily afford enough potions to go through any surges that wouldn't be used up by second winds in a typical day if need be.

In short, Clerics and Warlords aren't that critical, as Healing potions can be used to revive KOed characters, Second Winds will go through half the surges anyway, and the remainder can be spent out of combat.

[Tengu]

Also, note that drinking a potion is a minor action now.

I'm actually ambivalent to why would potions use healing surges, which results in making them only emergency mid-combat healing, but I guess that works from a balance standpoint, and makes sense fluff-wise.

[Totally Guy]

Hang on, if a healing potion gives you 10 health and uses up a healing surge doesn't that make it useless for someone with 40 health or more.

[SamTheCleric]

Keep in mind that the only way to spend your own healing surges is to take a second wind (once per encounter) or get powers that allow you to do so.

Potions are the only other way to give yourself a surge outside of powers.

[AKA_Bait]

Keep in mind that the only way to spend your own healing surges is to take a second wind (once per encounter) or get powers that allow you to do so.

Potions are the only other way to give yourself a surge outside of powers.

Yes, they are still quite useful.

[wodan46]

Nonsense, you can use surges freely outside of combat, by taking 5 minute rests. The important thing is that once knocked out, you can't use a second wind, nor casting healing spells, and are in danger of dying. If a leader isn't handy, or is the one knocked out, using a potion is the only way to get them back into the battle.

Surge Use during combat:
1. Second Wind(standard action, no bonus HP, boosted defense)
2. Healing Potion(minor action, 10-25-50 hp always)
3. Divine/Leader triggers (minor/free, bonus HP equal to 1d6 and/or modifier)

Surge Use outside combat
1. 5 minute rest(no bonus)
2. Healing Potion(as 2, can use freely)
3. Divine/Leader triggers(as 3 in combat, but can do every 5 minutes)

[Tsotha-lanti]

Hang on, if a healing potion gives you 10 health and uses up a healing surge doesn't that make it useless for someone with 40 health or more.

That's why you get a better potion. If your healing surge is 20 points, a potion that heals you 25 while expending a healing surge is still pretty dratted useful.

The potions listed in the PHB are:
Potion of healing (level 5), 50 gp, heals 10 hit points
Potion of vitality (level 15), 1,000 gp, heals 25 hit points
Potion of recovery (level 25), 25,000 gp, heals 50 hit points

Your healing surge is 1/4 your full hit points, rounded down.

[TheOOB]

It should be noted that it usually takes two minor actions to drink a healing potion. One to retrieve it from your pack, and one to actually drink it.

I personally like how they made healing potions. They are very useful without being over powered. The potions seem to cost a decent sum of money for the time periods where they would heal more then a second wind, but they get much more reasonable when you start getting to the point where your second wind heals more.

Leaders are still good to have around, they heal you with one of their minor actions, and can usually heal more then a potion, plus it doesn't cost money, but a potion can be the difference between life and death in a dungeon.

The only problem is that dragonborn get kinda shafted on the potions, I don't think it's unreasonable to let them use their con mod on potion healing though.

[Citizen Joe]

Wow, this is almost a complete rip off of Earthdawn. In ED, you get recovery tests, which allow you to heal yourself outside of combat (some abilities let you use them within combat). However healing potions just augmented the amount you healed and still required the use of a recovery test (Healing surge in DND4).

People keep comparing 4ed to WoW but I find that it is much more like Earthdawn.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Wow, this is almost a complete rip off of Earthdawn. In ED, you get recovery tests, which allow you to heal yourself outside of combat (some abilities let you use them within combat). However healing potions just augmented the amount you healed and still required the use of a recovery test (Healing surge in DND4).

People keep comparing 4ed to WoW but I find that it is much more like Earthdawn.

4E has elements copped from all sorts of games. A minion system is found in Seventh Sea, and a similar system is used in Decipher's The Lord of the Rings Roleplaying Game; a lot of mechanics and ideas are even copped from other d20 games (not meaning Saga, which more combined planned 4E elements with 3.5).

[Tengu]

People keep comparing 4ed to WoW but I find that it is much more like Earthdawn.

Which is good, because Earthdawn is a kickass game.

[Ealstan]

Keep in mind that the only way to spend your own healing surges is to take a second wind (once per encounter) or get powers that allow you to do so.

Potions are the only other way to give yourself a surge outside of powers.

Untrue. Anyone that has a high wisdom or is trained in healing can give an ally free use of their second wind in combat as a standard action (DC 10). Which cuts down on the number of attacks thrown at enemies, but can keep allies up in a pinch.

Also makes it better for the Dragonborn Warlord I'm playing. At first level my D-born can surge for more HPs than a low level potion.

[SamTheCleric]

Untrue. Anyone that has a high wisdom or is trained in healing can give an ally free use of their second wind in combat as a standard action (DC 10). Which cuts down on the number of attacks thrown at enemies, but can keep allies up in a pinch.

Also makes it better for the Dragonborn Warlord I'm playing. At first level my D-born can surge for more HPs than a low level potion.

Well, that's not exactly using your own healing surge, now is it.

[Saph]

In short, Clerics and Warlords aren't that critical, as Healing potions can be used to revive KOed characters, Second Winds will go through half the surges anyway, and the remainder can be spent out of combat.

Sorry, but this really isn't true. Healing up a KOed character via potions is an absolute last-resort tactic. You do NOT want to do it if there's any other option.

To heal up a fallen ally with a potion you have to spend 1) a minor action (to put away any weapons you're carrying, if you don't have a hand free), 2) one, two, or however many move actions (to get over to where the fallen ally is), 3) a minor action (to draw the potion), and 4) a standard action (to administer the potion).

That's probably the best part of two turns during which you and the downed ally are out of combat. You'd better hope the DM is kind and has had the monsters move away from the KOed target, because if not they can just hammer you while you're doing it, inflicting more damage than the potion heals. On top of that, the 10 HP from the lesser potion may well be less than the target's healing surge value, and the higher-level potions cost outrageous amounts of money.

By comparison, a 1st-level Cleric can just use healing word to heal up an ally for surge value + 1d6 + their Wisdom modifier, at range, as a minor action. I think it's pretty obvious which one you'd rather trust your life to when you're bleeding to death. :)

- Saph