Gears of Neve: a 4E World-Building Project - Abraxas

[Zeta Kai]

NOTE (7/3/'08): This thread is dedicated to discussion about Abraxes, the Eastern Continent (also known as the Continent of Mystery). For discussion concerning the Southern Continent, Terasul, please go HERE. For discussion concerning the Northern Continent, Oderike, please go HERE.

Premise

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People at the other 4E GitP World-Building thread have expressed interest in the creation of a second collaborative campaign setting, one that is more upbeat & positive in outlook & attitude. Now this is not normally my forte (I seem to have been the one responsible for sending that thread in a post-apocalyptic direction, for better or for worse), but I figured that since no one had created a thread for this, then it was up to me.

This thread is to discuss the themes & ideas of a new campaign setting, one created by the members of this forum. Anyone & everyone is invited to contribute any idea that they wish. Just remember, if your idea is bleak, violent, or otherwise dark, please go to the other world-building thread (see link above); this world is for light-hearted, exciting adventure.

Maps of Neve
(credit to tsuuga for original concept & layout)

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This one is completely unlabeled:

And this one is labeled with preliminary racial distribution:

Map of Abraxas

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The World of Neve

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The First Sighting of Abraxas

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The first sighting of Abraxas by the peoples of Oderike & Terasul was by a Principal League trader crewed by goblins. Blown of course by a freak gale, the strongly religious hobgoblin captain kept a strict diary of the happenings. It was clear to them that they would fall of the edge of the world. They were blown all around the place, for months, forced to survive on fish and drained saltwater. Indeed, they were close to following of the edge at times; the lookout had a heart-attack upon viewing it. However, the winds always changed, and blew them the other way. Every day, the captain would measure there position, using the stars and the sun, and mark down where they were. There first sight of land in 2 months was huge mountains in the distance. None of the crew had ever seen, or heard of anything like it. They were blown closer, and for a whole week, were off the coast of this wondrous land, all thick jungle and towering mountains, with storm clouds ever gathering near the shrouded peaks. Then they were adrift again in the open sea, and eventually made shore in the Draconic Empire. There, they were taken in, and there boat repaired, and they were sent back to Oderike. There, neither of there home countries believed there stories, but the Imperial Alliance thought it enough to warrant further investigation.

The First Expeditions to Abraxas

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Two men signed up to lead expeditions east. These two men were as different as could be.

The young Sir Frederick Wallan was always known as an adventurous rogue: the third son of a minor nobleman, he somehow managed to earn money as fast as he spent it. The amount of money he spent on this expedition was unthought of; most though nobody would even except the offer of land and money for almost certain death. No matter, he bought himself a cog, and hired a crew of 15 sailors, with 5 soldiers, and brought them, along with his mistress Joanna and his personal bodyguard, Hernan, and set sail on Midsummers eve, for the unknown. Some say he never reached Abraxas. Some say he died on the journey. Some say he was killed by natives. Others, that he decided to join the natives and never come back. No matter the reason, he disappeared.

Not to be outdone, the venerable 64 year old Lord Victor of Umbroke sponsored no less than 3 fully manned caravels,, and the quickest ship in all the land, the Ghost, led by well known explorer Jel Thomsu, the very same man who opened negotiations with the Draconic Empire. With no less than 40 soldiers, and a crew of 60 sailors, they sighted land early in August, but could find no place suitable to spend a winter. On the 10th of September, they managed to find an area of land that was only lightly wooded, and drew the ships up on the pebbly beach. (They had made land only 4 other times, and collected samples of plant life.) They chopped down trees, and built a group of cabins, and a tower, surrounded by a palisade. They wintered there, and then sent back the Ghost with news that they had landed, and survived. The messengers words will go down in history as marking one of the most important changes in history.

"Man, Dwarf, Halfling and Goblin-kind! Long have we lived in this land, plowing the same soil, living and dying, and being buried in the same crypt as your fathers, and your fathers fathers. But now, we live in a new land! No longer the land of our ancestors, we have discovered the Land of the Descendants!"

Though the name Land of Descendants never caught on, people leaving the Old World are often playfully said to be 'Leaving the Bones', a reference to that first, and very important declaration.

The Edge of the World

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From afar, the border looks like a mist, hanging in the air, the mist from the water plunging off of the edge. None have seen the edge close up and lived, though, so none can say for sure what lies beyond.

In other words, they think they've seen it. What have they seen, they don't know. Maybe it is the edge? Maybe not...

The New Imperial Colonies

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• Halflings: a lost tribe that entered from the north, went over the mountains, & were never seen again.
• Draconic Empire: settling in the southern peninsula & the southern bay
• Principal League: landed on the central west peninsula & the southwest bay

Races of Abraxas

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Eladrin

Elves

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Forgoth was a tiefling merchant, ejected from his land in the city of Gahundar for fraud, and unable to change loyalties, as his enemies had slandered his name all over the continent of Terasul. So, he he used what was left of his money to hire an Eladrin boat to take him to the continent of Odrike. During this time, he became enamored with the the Eladrin and there ways. He had heard of them, and knew that they came not from either continent he knew of, but from a mysterious land, somewhere. The thing with the Eladrin is that when not needed, they are always at the background, it is only when they are handy do they spring to mind.

When Forgoth heard of Abraxas, all of a sudden, everything became crystal clear. THIS was where they came from. And THIS was where he needed to go. He became obsessed. He waited eagerly for news of settlements in the New World. When the next ship was to leave for Portton, the capital of the colonies, he booked a spot. He endured the journey, as perilous as any sea journey is, and as uncomfortable, the entire time thinking only of finding the homeland of the Eladrin.

What he ended up finding would shock the world even more.

When he arrived, he wasted no time in setting out into the jungle. Alone, unprotected, armed only with his own conviction, he walked through the palisade gates, and into the grand unknown. If he had known he would join the ranks of his most admired discoverers, who knows what he might have done.

Forgoth was soon lost. Well, if you can call it lost. Can you be lost if you have no destination? He wandered for days, living off of what scarce plant life he could recognize, and a lot he could not. He saw many strange and wonderful beasts, but kept no log of them, as he was not an explorer, but merely a merchant who fancies himself an explorer.

He became faint, and tired, as one is wont to feel after several days with no sleep and scarce meals, and soon it came to pass that he fell unconscious on the jungle floor.
When he woke up, he was surrounded by a sort of Eldarin, except different. They were shorter, but still extraordinarily tall. Where the Eldarin were mysterious,these people were wild, strong, and hardy. They were the Elves.

The Elven tribe nursed Forgoth back to health, and he spent many months with them, and learned their language. They had watched the newcomers carefully for 2 years now, and had been fearful at there coming. From Forgoth, they learned where the strange people came from. From the Elves, Forgoth learned how to live in this land. However, after a time, Forgoth grew weary, and sought the company of his own people. His adoptive tribe led him back to Portton, now much larger, and, as soon as the walls came into sight, disappeared. Forgoth told everyone of the wondrous natives, the 'Noble Savages', and for a while was happy, but then, once again, longed for their company, and slipped out one day to rejoin them. Doubtless, he is with them now.

Half-Elves

Illithids

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A sparse cluster of somewhat-savage brain-eating tribes. They were once a mighty & terrible empire, but a plague spread through their vast territory, carried by infected brains. This caused their monstrous empire to collapse, killed most of them off. Those that remain eek out a simple tribal life amidst the ruins of their grisly fallen metropolises, primarily preying on Elves, Oaves, & other nearby sentient inhabitants. These victims are invariably sacrificed to their venerated ancestors (&, of course, the brains are harvested).

Oaves

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“Nature’s attempt at the epitome of laziness, the Oaves are a race of clumsy & carefree foragers.”

• Average Height: 6’8” – 8’2”
• Average Weight: 200lbs. – 400lbs.

Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Size: Medium (see Oversized, below)
Speed: 6 Squares
Vision: Normal

Languages: Common, Oavish
Skill Bonus: Nature +4
Disease Resistance: +5 racial bonus to saving throws against poison
Adept Thrower: +2 racial bonus to attack and damage rolls when throwing heavy thrown weapons
Oversized: This creature may use equipment designed for creatures one size larger than it
Forager's Resilience: +2 to Fortitude defense

Play an Oaf if you want:

• To be lazy to a fault
• To throw big weapons
• To be a member of a race that favors the Fighter, Ranger and Warlock classes

Oavish Feats
Heroic Tier
Thickheaded [Oaf]
+2 to Will defense

Overpower [Oaf]
Prerequisites: Strength 15
When you hit an enemy with a melee basic attack, you deal additional damage equal to your Constitution Modifier

Paragon Tier
Improved Overpower [Oaf]
Prerequisites: Overpower, Strength 17
When you would deal bonus damage with Overpower, you may instead knock the opponent prone

Epic Tier
Master Overpower [Oaf]
Prerequisites: Improved Overpower, Strength 19
When you would deal bonus damage or knock and enemy prone with Improved Overpower, you can do both

Yuan-ti

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Degenerate elves who began to worship a dark serpentine god and practice twisted rituals.

The temple pyramids were built buy some long-gone-and-forgotten civilization (And I mean this from the natives' perspective). Obviously evil, maybe they wiped themselves out (or whatever). Both the mind-flayers and the Yuan-ti moved in after this, and have a long lasting rivalry over who actually gets to own, and live in, the pyramids. Some pyramids belong to the Yuan-ti, some to the mind-flayers, some havent been discovered yet, others are sealed for mysterious (and possibly evil!) reasons. In any case there's treasure and magical secrets to be had a-plenty inside these things. Season with ancient horrors to taste.

This brings me to a possible origin for the Yuan-ti: tribe/group of elves (mostly, because they've been living on Abraxas longer) investigate one of these sealed temples and discover some ancient entity, start worshipping it and get transformed into what they are now. Said entity (god, demon, whatever) might not necessarily be evil, could be neutral or even benign.

Things Left To Do

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• Write-up on the New Imperial Colonies
• Write-up on the Eladrin of Abraxas
• Write-up on the Elves
• Write-up on the Half-Elves
• Write-up on the Illithids
• Write-up on the Oaves (culture)
• Write-up on the Yuan-ti
• Nailing down the scale of the world
• Adding a coordinate grid to the map

[Zeta Kai]

Now, to kick things off, I have a suggestion for a possible world-concept. No one is obligated to use it, but I feel like I should start with something. Here it goes:

A little over 50 years ago, sailors from the Western Empire discovered a new continent, located halfway across the globe to the east. This new land was seemingly uninhabited, & settlers from the empire have now come to live along the westernmost shore of this large & fertile land. They have started to prosper here in the New Empire, living off the land & (so far) building a successful string of colonies along the coastline.

But the new colonists wish to expand, & first they must explore the new land. A tall mountain chain has so far prevented all but the most rugged individuals from crossing over into the rest of the continent. Of those who have, all report fantastic sights, strange places, & stranger beasts. No one so far has even claimed to see a sentient native, but the many wild stories the first explorers brought back tell of endless tangled forests, fountains of light, bizarre rock formations, seas of whispering grasses, & other such wonders.

The colonies are now willing to pay large sums to anyone brave enough to cross the formidable mountains, gather information, & return with it. They're willing to pay a great deal more for those few who can lead a team of colonist further inland, in the great unknown.

PEACH

[Mewtarthio]

Now, to kick things off, I have a suggestion for a possible world-concept. No one is obligated to use it, but I feel like I should start with something. Here it goes:

To be honest, it seems a touch ill-defined. I like the Age of Discovery aspects, but I don't see why the entire community should be devoting resources to something which is essentially "anything can happen because nobody knows what's out there."

I'd like the main Imperial continent to consist of only a small handful of races, while the new continent is populated by a diverse number of sentient races. The reason that the Old World reached the New World first instead of vice versa is that the Old World's dominant race (I'm thinking humans) are relatively united: While the Elves and Dwarves expend resources fighting each other, the Humans have resources to spare constructing ships to the New World.

For the Old World races, I'm thinking humans, kobolds, and dragonborn. Kobolds mostly live in caves and tunnels where humans prefer not to settle, so the two races mostly compete over mining tunnels, with neither trying to completely conquer or exterminate the other. I haven't quite discovered how the dragonborn fit in (possibly seen as valuable slaves by both humans and kobolds), but I'd like to have more than one PHB race in there, and dragonborn seem like a good pick since I've already thrown in the kobolds.

Lastly, I'd like to advance this a generation or two, so there's still plenty of conflict between the two worlds, but you could still feasibly have humans and elves adventuring together.

[ArmorArmadillo]

Hmm...upbeat is good. I'm immediately reminded of Skies of Arcadia, both in the happy outlook and the focus on exploration.

I think the new world would be a good place to incorporate a homebrew race, that would be discovered by the players early on.

[Moff Chumley]

Good ideas. I'd like to focus on the geographic aspects of this, so heres what I've inferred from the previous several posts.

The world isn't that big. There are only two main continents, and they aren't that huge. Everything else... well, nobody knows what everything else is because up till recently, people thought that the world ended a few miles out from shore. The two continents are separated by about a weeks worth of water; the reason no ones tried to traverse this before is because it never acured to anyone. The first continent, the larger one, is populated by humans as a dominant race, who have formed two competing empires, and countless small baronies. There aren't any major wars, but there are quite a few minor scuffles. Centuries ago, one of the smaller baronies made a pact with Orcus, and for a few years, one of his priests rules nearly half the continent, and he suddenly vanished, perhaps to join his god. In his wake he left thousands of mutated humanoids, the Teiflings. They are dispersed throughout society, and have formed several exclusive baronies. Dragonborn are the other major race that occupy the first continent, and they have a large kingdom separated from the humans by a large mountain range. Those mountains are inhabited by all manner of goblin, kobold, and dragon, and make traversing the range dangerous. Nonetheless, there are several large and well defended passes that the have been carved out. The humans and dragonborn are quite friendly, but it is not unknown for a dragonborn in human lands to be discriminated against as a freak or mutant. Other races that live exlussivly one continet one are Bugbears, Doppelgangers, Gnomes, Goblins, Hobbs, Kobolds, and Warforged.

Well, I'm all dried up. If anyone can expand to that description, fell free. I'll do continent two tomorrow.

[Moff Chumley]

Huh, there doesn't appear to be much interest in this setting. Remember guys, were trying to make the successor to ToB. We need more than three actual posts.

[gareth]

I've tried to reply twice, but I kept getting timed out. Perhaps we could encourage more interest with a discussion of what we mean by "positive". My view starts with the opposite of a positive setting. Someone once complained about "backswing" settings in science fiction - where millions of people have died and whole civilisations have been ground to dust merely to provide more room for the hero's backswing. One extreme example of this is S.M. Stirling's Dies the Fire series, where six billion people starve to death in a few months. The aftermath is the perfect setting for cool medieval warfare, but for most of humanity it's as bad as it can get. I like the books myself, but the whole idea of big disasters to generate a setting for adventures is getting a little musty. As someone pointed out on the other thread it's the basis for Eberron, Tears of Blood, and the default Fourth Edition setting. Although in the latter the disasters were in the distant past. So maybe this is the basis of the positive setting: Bad things won't happen just to create opportunities for adventuring. The world will exist on its own terms, and will contain advanced, prosperous societies that don't need adventurers to survive. Although obviously they'll sometimes be useful.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Indeed. Here's my take on what we mean with positive:

Basically, in most settings, heroes are underdogs. They're fighting against Da Man, who is in power, monsters seem to await just out of the city walls, and there seems to be an excessive number of sinners with no saints to compensate. En short, it seems like every setting is some cheap Song of Ice and Fire ripoff.

What I propose we do with this setting is a REconstruction of the classic RPG world. Leaders are good. Heroes are not rejected by the common man as if they were mutants. Magic is a powerful force harnessed for the good of civilization. We want something a bit closer to Star Wars, only without the card carrying villains and with a possibility of failure.

Now, to the crunchy bits of the fluff: I disagree with the idea of two small continents. That means a small world. I'm in favor of, at the very least, three continents, which amount at the very least to a landmass equal to Eurasia. We'll start with the "main" continent, the one from which most PC races come from. So, the big question: WHICH races live there?

My vote goes to Humans, Halflings, dwarves (who will have some steampunkish technology, and some rennaissance tech), Gnomes, Doppelgangers, Goblins, and Kobolds. En shorte, the most city-based and organized races, which are more likely to create or live in big organized societies. The more nature oriented or savage races (With the exception of gnomes, who'll be in the main continent, and tieflings and dragonborn, who will hail from other continents), such as elves, eladrin, gnolls, or bugbears, would live in some other continent. How does it sound?

[Zeta Kai]

So far, that sounds great. I'd like to see most of the emphasis of this settling focused on the New Empire continent. We can assume that the land of the Western Empire is a small-but-civilized corner of the world, something akin to an idealized Europe (perhaps more like Europe is today, as opposed to its bloody, barbaric past). Here are some thoughts:

• All of the PC races come from the Western Empire. The New Empire continent has no known sentient races, but the occasional odd rumor from the few previous explorers hints at a native people.
• The Western Empire was somewhat small, about the size of Europe or Australia. It was surrounded by other strong nation-states, which is why they decided to sent explorers & settlers out to sea. Lastly, I propose that they be many thousands of miles from the New Empire, about halfway across the globe; that way, they can be as pleasant & helpful as they wish to be, but they are simply too far away to bail out the colonists if/when they run into trouble. The New Imperials are on their own in this unknown land, & they will have to deal with their own problems.
• Obviously, most players are going to want a race of natives to interact with. I suggest that we create not just one such homebrewed race, but several, & leave it up to the DM to decide just which one they want in their campaign. This'll be sort of a Choose You Own Adventure NPC race. Options include: arborial "noble savages," benevolent/ambivalent dragons (they've got to be somewhere in this setting), subterranean gnomes (that's why their not in the PHB), or something even more bizarre like Chaotic Good illithids (that'll surprise a PC party). We could craft the various optional cultures, & the DM chooses which one (or ones) to include.
• Lastly, we need to make sure that this setting is truly positive. Sure, there will be danger, conflict & even the occasional BBEG. But this should be a world full of excitement, wonder & upbeat adventure. Famine, cannibalism, genocide, racism, slavery, rape, torture, & other such atrocities should be rare & abhorent, sickeningly distasteful to all sentient peoples. Even the most blood-thirsty orcish warlord would rather just bash someone's skull & avoid the messy business of doing something more sadistic to his captives. If this is going to be a positive campaign setting, we need to design both crunch & fluff to maintain that theme of our setting.

Thoughts? Criticisms? Violent disputes? PEACH away.

[tsuuga]

Let's skip the "Ruins of a more advanced ancient civilization" theme entirely on this one.

A week apart sounds like a good distance to me. Long sea voyages are boring at best, and depressing or riddled with sickness at worst. Maybe this world has only just developed deep-keeled boats suited to leaving coastal waters, or perhaps the huge sea-beast who has claimed the waters between the two continents for the last thousand years finally met his Captain Ahab.

In keeping with the theme, I think the setting should explicitly support a mode of play other than "kill monsters, take their stuff, then save the world". A "Land Grab" campaign, for instance... where the players are hired as troubleshooters by a NPC patron (or a party member) to protect and grow his fledgling settlement on the frontier. If you've got one or more detail oriented PCs, give them a lot of control over the growth of the settlement. It provides a home base for the PCs, something to get attached to in the new world, a reason to parlay with (or fight off) the natives, a population of NPCs to whom the PCs are their personal heroes, and a way to get the PCs money and items on a continent that's never seen civilization(In addition to their salary, the players are given cuts of the profits on their discoveries and enterprises, like that iron mine, stream full of gold nuggets, or that herd of dire buffalo they captured... which works out to approximately WBL. Magic items can be gifts from their sponsor, or simply ordered from back home). Once the city is established, the characters may be inclined to make expeditions farther afield, searching for the City of Gold, Fountain of Youth, or Gumdrop Forest.

[Azerian Kelimon]

So far, that sounds great. I'd like to see most of the emphasis of this settling focused on the New Empire continent. We can assume that the land of the Western Empire is a small-but-civilized corner of the world, something akin to an idealized Europe (perhaps more like Europe is today, as opposed to its bloody, barbaric past). Here are some thoughts:

• All of the PC races come from the Western Empire. The New Empire continent has no known sentient races, but the occasional odd rumor from the few previous explorers hints at a native people.
• The Western Empire was somewhat small, about the size of Europe or Australia. It was surrounded by other strong nation-states, which is why they decided to sent explorers & settlers out to sea. Lastly, I propose that they be many thousands of miles from the New Empire, about halfway across the globe; that way, they can be as pleasant & helpful as they wish to be, but they are simply too far away to bail out the colonists if/when they run into trouble. The New Imperials are on their own in this unknown land, & they will have to deal with their own problems.
• Obviously, most players are going to want a race of natives to interact with. I suggest that we create not just one such homebrewed race, but several, & leave it up to the DM to decide just which one they want in their campaign. This'll be sort of a Choose You Own Adventure NPC race. Options include: arborial "noble savages," benevolent/ambivalent dragons (they've got to be somewhere in this setting), subterranean gnomes (that's why their not in the PHB), or something even more bizarre like Chaotic Good illithids (that'll surprise a PC party). We could craft the various optional cultures, & the DM chooses which one (or ones) to include.
• Lastly, we need to make sure that this setting is truly positive. Sure, there will be danger, conflict & even the occasional BBEG. But this should be a world full of excitement, wonder & upbeat adventure. Famine, cannibalism, genocide, racism, slavery, rape, torture, & other such atrocities should be rare & abhorent, sickeningly distasteful to all sentient peoples. Even the most blood-thirsty orcish warlord would rather just bash someone's skull & avoid the messy business of doing something more sadistic to his captives. If this is going to be a positive campaign setting, we need to design both crunch & fluff to maintain that theme of our setting.

Thoughts? Criticisms? Violent disputes? PEACH away.

Sounds interesting. Here's my opinions on everything, going in order:
[*] Let's say all of the citylike PC races (All the ones I listed, sans gnomes, possibly) come from one of three empires: A small but thriving empire, which would be the one you mentioned, a theo or magocratic tiefling/eladrin society (Not necessarily ruled by mages, the magocracy. Could be ruled by warlocks too), and a big, massive dragonborn empire, with them as a sort of elder race.
[*] This sounds about right. Let's make it so that the Western Empire is like an idealized Spain. It sends tools and materials to the colonists and expects tributes from them, but otherwise lets them be.
[*] That's a nice idea. I like that my idea of Illithids as a good race is taking off. That said, I think I can make a little list:

Noble jungle savages: Elves. Was there any doubt? They're tailormade for it.

Desert race: A homebrewed race. I'm thinking of something like giantkin.

Dominant race: Homebrewed race. Something as versatile as humans, but with different looks and stats.

Water race: We need some kind of tritons or sirens!

Mountain race: Maybe the CG illithids that we want?

As for dragons... let's make them some sort of manifestation, much like it seems scourge dragons are going to work. A gold dragon nest, for example, would be a breeding ground for righteousness, while an ancient red dragon would be a perfect embodiment of greed. They'd be all-round the world, and some could even be citizens of the empires.
[*] This last point I'm not okay with. It should be allowed to make truly vile, repugnant villains, the ones that have their way with children and eat babies for dinner. My opinion is, though, that they're a rarity, not the normal thing. Most people are good, and the leaders of the empires are big time Epic people, over level 30, who want only the best for their people. In short, there ARE horrible people, but there's always going to be a hero ready to fight them.

[Moff Chumley]

Alright, here goes my description of the world: take two. Lets say there are three islands: two that are settled, and the new world. I think that we should keep the standard 4e cosmology and pantheon, I like those. However, Melora is a creator goddess. Just go with it, m'kay?

When the world was created by the primordials and gods, there were two gates open to the energies left over from the world settling: the Feywild and the Shadowfell. These gates were closed long ago, but there influence is still felt by those who look for it. The two gates allowed earth to enter the world, and the first two continents arose. On the Feytouched continent, Humans, Dwarves, Halflings, and Goblinoids emerged. On the other arose Tieflings, Dragonborn, Elves, Kobolds, Orcs, and Shifters.

Continent 1
The humans, dwarves, and halflings formed a large, friendly alliance after a period of tribal primitivism, and developed a large, well developed culture. While the humans where plains dwellers, the Dwarves stayed in the mountains, and the halfling preferred the coasts, they were equally integrated, for the most part, in most of the cities. The continent was large enough to allow for exploration for a time, and the high mountains and deep forests provided generations of time before the alliance had settled most of the continent. However, the fourth race of the continent refused to cooperate or join the alliance: the violent goblinoids, who had formed a small empire. The groups warred for several years, but eventually the war was stopped because both groups realized it's futility. The alliance and empire were connected only by several land bridges, so the two groups agreed to stay out of each other's way. Several fortifications were built by the alliance to keep out any rogue Bugbear warlords. The alliance turned inward for a time, and began a period of great discovery and progress, which lasts to this day.

Continent 2
Unlike it's sister continent, this continent's races were slightly more firmly segregated. The great Dragonborn Empire (think the 40k empire, only done right.), lead by an immortal exarch of Bahamut, rules over a sizable portion of the continent, in a state of peace and progress. The elves, who long ago split into their three subraces, originally formed a small kingdom, but both the Drow and the Elves eventually left. The drow formed their own subterranean kingdom in the colossal cavern network that lies several miles under the earth, and the Elves set off on a vast fleet of ships, never to be heard of again. The Eladrin allied with the Tieflings and created a small republic on a large peninsula, a few days away from the Dragonborn empire. The Kobolds formed a huge nation of their own, based out of a gargantuan mountain of almost ten miles. The kobolds keep to themselves, occasionally attacking a peaceful settlement, but they are generally kept under control by the Dragonborn. The orcs, however, are what keeps the two nations on their toes: the orc empire is gigantic, but vastly isolated. Dragonborn and Eladrin armies are constantly off in distant lands fighting the orcs, and the war is so ancient, and the allies so successful, that war is rarely on the mind of the two nations, and there haven't been civilian casualties in centuries.

The two continents are friendly, with the alliance trading with the two empires, and sending the occasional army to help with the war. There is peace and unity throughout the world.

You guys can fluff up continent three. The only thing I supplied is that the elves live there. (Also, if you guys catch any spilleng ur gramar mastekes, please feel free to point them out. no doubt I made some in this megapost, and theyre embaerrasing. )

[Zeta Kai]

A week apart sounds like a good distance to me. Long sea voyages are boring at best, and depressing or riddled with sickness at worst. Maybe this world has only just developed deep-keeled boats suited to leaving coastal waters, or perhaps the huge sea-beast who has claimed the waters between the two continents for the last thousand years finally met his Captain Ahab.

Alright, this is an idea that has to die, lest it poison the entire setting set up so far. Listen, oceanic voyages take time. They just do, & wishing they didn't take time is not only wasteful, but it is harmful to the setting's believability.

Let's say we go with idea that the Western Empire & the New Empire colonies are really just a week's trip by boat. For the average boat speed, I'll use the 3.5E book Stormwrack as a basis for determining ocean travel (if anyone has more accurate numbers regarding average vessel speed, please provide better numbers). Table 5-2: Boats & Ships (page 97) gives vessel speeds ranging from ½MPH for a barge to 4MPH for an elven wingship. To be fair, we'll say that the average speed is 2MPH, about the speed of a cog, a fast galley, a fast longship. Now, in an average wind (light wind), these ships travel 15-20 feet per round. According to the section regarding a day's progress (pages 24 & 25), a ship in open waters travels a number of miles in a day equal to twice its feet per round. That works out to an average distance of 30-40 miles traveled per day. So a week-long voyage for your average ship would be 210-280 miles.

Do you see the problem with this yet?

For those who say "So what?", let me explain: 280 miles is NOTHING on this planet. That is about the width of Pennsylvania. This isn't even sufficient to divide 2 nations over land without them both at least knowing the other's existence. If 2 continents were divided by only 280 miles, you have cross-continental contact since prehistoric times. People would cross that little of a gap via canoes. You'd need a much larger distance to ensure that the peoples of the Western Empire would only have found the New Empire within recent times. Otherwise, what's been preventing them from sending explorers & settlers before? And don't say famine or war, because those are against the theme. We already have multiple classic examples of distance colonists (pilgrims in New England, conquistadors in South America), & idealized, benevolent versions of those are what this settling is based on thus far.

Look, you need the distance between the 2 continents to be large. If the homeland was less than 1,000 miles away, then there's too much focus on the Empire. The New Empire continent & its colonists are where the campaign is set; the Empire should be no more than a distant background detail, half a world way. Sure, you have ships hailing from the motherland arriving every few months in the largest port cities, but they would bring new settlers, news from the homeland, the odd exotic trinket & little else. But to be so close they would undoubtedly exert too much influence on the settlers & too easily allow for PC's to leave the New Empire & go the the motherland, which spoils the exploration concept. Explaining away these troublesome details would most likely require disasters or massive magical intervention, neither of which is fitting within the basic themes already laid out.

To allow for a much closer motherland would shift focus away from the setting's primary region, dilute the feel, & strain verisimilitude. I've said my peace.

[chiasaur11]

Hmm....
Too close might be a bad thing.
If you're within a month of home, then explorers come all the time. No reason for royals and such not to take active leadership. If it's further away, then the players can be given authority in the name of their local rulers. Or at least legal claim to whatever they can keep.

Why not have an Oregon style gentlemen's agreement between two of the races that whoever colonizes more of the land owns it?

[horngeek]

The great Dragonborn Empire (think the 40k empire, only done right.), lead by an immortal exarch of Bahamut, rules over a sizable portion of the continent, in a state of peace and progress.

It's possible to do the Imperium right?

That said, this is a great idea, guys. It'll be interesting to see what gets come up with.

EDIT: Also, is adventures on the main continent nessecarially a bad thing? C'mon, political intrigue is great!

[gareth]

Since this setting is meant to be used with the Fourth Edition rules, it might be worth thinking about paladins. In 3.5, they had a strict code of behaviour. If they broke it, they lost their powers. In 4, they can start stomping kittens straight after the rituals are done, and keep all of their powers. For a positive setting, I propose that we reintroduce a code of behaviour. Break it, and the paladin loses all powers. Skills and weapon proficiencies stay the same, and the character can retrain as some other class. I'd also suggest that all paladins are required to be Lawful Good.

[Moff Chumley]

Since this setting is meant to be used with the Fourth Edition rules, it might be worth thinking about paladins. In 3.5, they had a strict code of behaviour. If they broke it, they lost their powers. In 4, they can start stomping kittens straight after the rituals are done, and keep all of their powers. For a positive setting, I propose that we reintroduce a code of behaviour. Break it, and the paladin loses all powers. Skills and weapon proficiencies stay the same, and the character can retrain as some other class. I'd also suggest that all paladins are required to be Lawful Good.

Sounds good, but how about only gor Palies of good/lawful good gods?

Zeta Kai, you have convinced me. Let us say about two months by boat? And I have this idea of huge, nay, gargantuan ships capable of transporting an entire town across the ocean. That way, there can be settlements of decent size along the coast of the new world, I'm thinking of about two or three thousand people. One of the underlying goals of the PCs is to locate a good place for a permenant settlement. In addition, I think that the new world should actually be a huge group of islands, with hundreds of small ones and several larger ones. Thats all I have for now; after I get some input,I'll do another megapost.

[Zeta Kai]

I like the idea of restricting Paladin's to a code of honor, but I don't think that we should go back to the old 3.5 system of doing things, which led to many paladins acting as the PC-police. No, let's instead make a code of honor, but it would have social consequence if broken. They wouldn't lose any powers, but any violation of their oath would cause an aura of sin to emanate from them until they properly atone for their transgression (atonement varies by the sin). This aura would confer penalties to attack, defense, etc. & make NPC's react unfavorably. Also, perhaps paladins in our setting should be any Good: it's a tighter restriction than 4E, but it's looser than 3E.

I like the idea of city-barges, but keep in mind that they would be as slow (or even slower) than a normal-sized barge. According to Stormwrack (page 98), barges only move 5' per round, which works out to 10 miles per day. A 2 month (60 day) voyage for an average-speed vehicle would be 1,800-2,400 miles (which sounds like a good distance between the continents to me). This would take a barge between 180-240 days (6-8 months) to complete. Granted, a city barge would be a lot more comfortable than a standard seacraft, & have a lot more amenities, such as full kitchens, toiletries, livestock, etc. Seasickness would be less of an issue, as a vessel that large wouldn't rock very easily. Protection from the elements would need considerable consideration, though.

[Moff Chumley]

Um, were did I say barge?

I was thinking something like a run of the mill medieval ship, only about five times larger in every dimension. After all, this is epic fantasy, is it not? Or, if that is a little too epic, possibly having gigantic fleets would be an interesting substitution. Perhaps orc or goblinoid pirates have sprung up?

I think that the PCs should start in the old world, board a gigantic ship/fleet, spend a few sessions on board, and then emerge with the rest of the passengers.

[Recaiden]

I thought the difference for this world was the lack of a decline or huge disaster that destroyed everything. Three continents about 2000+ miles apart sounds good. The idea of islands ould be useful. Maybe the third continent is made up of lots of smaller islands? I think that magic should be common, but not overpowered.

[gareth]

OK, paladins can be any Good, and can worship any Good god, although the alignments still have to be identical. Any penalty for misbehaviour can be removed by atonement, but some acts are so evil that the atonement has to be self-sacrifice. Think Darth Vader's death here. As for what the penalty is, an aura of sin seems like it would be too complex. Removing powers is simpler and also fits a consistent fluff explanation - the paladin's god provides the powers directly and takes them away to punish him. Maybe small transgressions remove daily powers, larger ones encounter powers, and even larger ones at-will powers. To avoid the PC police thing, specifiy that only the paladin's behaviour affects his powers. The other PCs can do all kinds of questionable things as long as he doesn't participate in them. In a positive setting there will be limits on how bad the other PCs are anyway.

[wodan46]

I've actually been thinking about the concept of an Age of Discovery as a good setting for D&D/any fantasy RPG. It allows the DM a good amount of control, as there can always be another hidden civilization located behind the next valley.

For the setting you've described so far, here's some ideas:

1. The 2 continents, while within a few hundred miles of each other, were magically obscured from each other for over a millennia, to the point that the inhabitants of each continent are mythical legends to the other, except by a rare few in the know.
2. Why the continents were obscured from each other in the first place, and are no longer, are both huge questions. Perhaps to ensure that the scattered pieces of an artifact never meet...
3. The PC's home continent is divided into rival nations eager to explore the new region and claim its land and resources for themselves. Players will have to deal with rival adventuring parties who represent more "evil" nations, simple mercs in it for their own gain, and more morally grey agents who may help your party 1 day and steal their treasure the next.

[Moff Chumley]

I have some more ideaas building on my previous posts, but I'd like to see what Zeta and Azerian think of them, first.

[Yakk]

I've seen this in another bit of world building, and I think it adds to the fun fantasy of the situation.

Instead of boats and continents, floating rocks and airships.

World:
The World is a bunch of huge Earth domains, floating in the Air. When you are above an Earth domain, you fall downward towards the Earth. This fades off as you go upwards -- but it also causes nasty air currents in the area above an Earth domain.

In the Air domain, Water's natural form is Cloud. When it approaches an Earth Domain, it tends to become Rain, and fall on the Earth Domain.

The bottom of an Earth Domain is craig-like rock. The Rock has no need to fall any further (as it is the bottom of the Earth Domain), and if you fall off you float in the air. Civilized areas (Dwarves live down here) at the bottom of an Earth Domain have netting extending outwards to catch people who fall off.

The sides of an Earth Domain tend to have lots of waterfalls. These fall off the Earth Domain, and the water converts back into Clouds as it stays in the Air Domain. This makes travelling "under" an Earth Domain not very viable -- the water, clouds and the air currents generated are chaotic. The dwarves have engaged in large-scale Waterworks that have allowed limited approaches to their underground docks at the bottom of the Domain, with the added benefit that the Dwarves can open the plugs and shut down their own Harbors.

If you "fall" outside of an Earth Domain, you just float. There is nothing pulling you down.

As Clouds are relatively common in the Air Domain, lines of sight over large Air distances are limited.

The ability to travel short ranges over the Air has been developing over time. Cloud-farmers has been around for centuries, where you launch a farm that lives off the water in the Clouds. Fishing the air is also profitable, as there are flying creatures that can be harvested from them.

Airships use treated EarthWood to produce a downward pull on things on the ship -- this means you don't have to tie everything down, and risk it floating off. Prior to the development of the Astral Keel, ships where at the mercy of the wind, with very little control (crank-ships, that turned large rotating fans, could move against the wind: but these had extremely short range, due to the raw effort it takes to move a ship).

The Astral Keel allows the ship to tack against the wind (much as a Keel allows a ship to tack in our universe). Ships with Astral Keels have started an age of Discovery, as long air-trips are now viable.

There are other geographic features in the air. Storms (theorized to be around Water domains -- but reports of what is actually inside a Storm is mostly mythological) exist, and are serious hazards. They sometimes pass near Continents (Earth Domains) and create massive weather issues.

The Sun travels in a large circle around the world. So the underside of a continent gets daylight at different times than the topside.

Stars are believed to be Fire Domains, floating in the Air. Only a handful are nearby. Approaching them on a Ship is suicide. There have been a handful of close encounters with Stars in recorded history, and they generally led to massive drought, fires, and collapse of empires.

Continents tend not to move relative to each other. There are three continents in that exist in a small constellation near the Imperial continent. Travel between them has always been possible.

The age of discovery has found a number of reasonably far-away continents and constellations. These are populated with strange beings and cultures...

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

How advanced is technology going to be?
I find it hard to imagine anything much different from the norm of the Spanish Conquistadors, which is simple one piece helmet, 2 piece breastplates, matchlock muskets, swords, crossbows.

[Moff Chumley]

-snip-

Huh. This is pretty interesting... I'm not sure if its in keeping with the rest, but the idea that air travel became viable recently is pretty cool. And, as everyone knows, Dirigibles spell awesome. I envisioned a good level of steampunk for this setting, so that would be in place... However, there are some aspects of that that are a little off the wall, and this is intended as a fairly generic setting.

[Zeta Kai]

...The World is...

These are all great ideas, but I think that they would be better used here, where they fit the theme a lot more.

[Moff Chumley]

I have some ideas for the setting that involve prominent use of steampunk tropes. Before I write them up, can we agree that steampunk, at least the tech, fits this setting?

[Lappy9000]

Huh, this is a really good idea. The whole reason why I never got interested in ToB was due to the mood of the setting.

I don't own anything 4th edition as of yet, but I will be glad to contribute fluff.

I have some ideas for the setting that involve prominent use of steampunk tropes. Before I write them up, can we agree that steampunk, at least the tech, fits this setting?

Steampunk technology? Yes. Steakpunk itself? Maybe not. Something along the lines of "glasslamp fantasy" coined by Girl Genius with a more upbeat take on steampunk may be a bit more suitable.

EDIT: Oh, and by the way, Chaotic Good Illithids = Win

[Yakk]

No worries. :) Just thought I'd toss out some evocative images that have been rattling around.