[4E] Coverting Your Character, They Actually Made a Guide!

[Starbuck_II]

Part I:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/20080613a

Part II:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/20080620a

Part III:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/20080627a

Part IV:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/20080704a

Part V:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/20080711a

Part VI:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/20080718a

Part VII:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/20080725a

I like their suggestions for the classes: They fit really good.


1) The Monk Kit for the Ranger is the best so far.

a. Gain a +3 bonus to AC when wearing no armor or cloth armor. Trading in Leather and Hide.

b. Increase Will by 2 by trading in Primeshot.

c. Replace Dungeoneering and Nature on your class skill list with Arcana, Diplomacy, Insight, and Religion. Then Choose five trained skills from your class list.

d. Lose Martial Weapons. Unarmed strike proficiency and unarmed strike has a +3 bonus (used to be 0), It has offhand property and damage increases to d8.

All you need to do to emulate Flurry is take 2 bladed style.

2) I think the Druid Kit Idea idea isn't fully developed though.

Turn Undead trade in should give more than 1 round of Shape shift.
I think it should be at least till end of next turn. A Fly speed of 40 feet (8 squares) is decent though so I can't fully fault them.

[SamTheCleric]

I posted about the original a few days back... but I had not seen the Complete Adventurer one. I'm not to sure about the spellthief, his mechanic is so unique that I really don't feel that a rogue with wizard multiclass really captures the character.

Overall, I'm glad that they are writing these articles.

[Human Paragon 3]

Here's how I would do Spellthief.

Start with a trickster rogue and multiclass into wizard or warlock to gain some magic like the WotC guide says. However, instead of the artful dodger ability, I'd make up a new power like this:

Spell Stealer
Whenever the rogue damages an enemy with his Sneak Attack ability, he may forgo the extra damage dice. If he does so, he gains one of the struck creature's spells or prayers as an encounter power. If the power is not expended by the end of the encounter, the power is lost. The rogue can not gain an encounter power from an enemy whose level exceeds the rogues level plus his intelligence modifier.

This would also be cool for players who want intelligence based rogues instead of STR or CHA.

[Indon]

Kits! I remember those!

[zaei]

If that article is any indication of what 4e druids will look like, anyone wanting to convert a druid character from 3.5 might be better off casting Transmute Rock to Lava and jumping in for a bath, followed by creating a new character.

[DSCrankshaw]

I think the best indication of what the druid will look like is the Shapeshifting Druid from PHB II, which I like a lot. The druid from the article looks like a stopgap to give you a little bit of that favor, but not a whole lot.

[Worira]

If you want to covert a character, just give him maximum ranks in Hide and Move Silently.

[TheOOB]

Overall I like the guide. It stays with the idea that it's better to take the concept of the character and make a new character, and give some good advice. I found the monk rules to be pretty interesting(though really it's more of a martial artist then a monk) that's a pretty good class set up even if you aren't converting an old monk.

I agree the druid they have is pretty horrible, but then again, a druid isn't something you can just handle by swapping a few abilities. By the by, it should be noted that WotC has allready said that the new druid will focus more on shapeshifting(which is unique to druid) then on spells. They still very well might be a leader though, we'll see.

[Enlong]

Overall I like the guide. It stays with the idea that it's better to take the concept of the character and make a new character, and give some good advice. I found the monk rules to be pretty interesting(though really it's more of a martial artist then a monk) that's a pretty good class set up even if you aren't converting an old monk.

I agree the druid they have is pretty horrible, but then again, a druid isn't something you can just handle by swapping a few abilities. By the by, it should be noted that WotC has allready said that the new druid will focus more on shapeshifting(which is unique to druid) then on spells. They still very well might be a leader though, we'll see.

So... Primal Leader? Or maybe Primal Controller? Maybe even a Primal Defender, if Shapeshifting makes you a powerful fighter.

[Talic]

So... Primal Leader? Or maybe Primal Controller? Maybe even a Primal Defender, if Shapeshifting makes you a powerful fighter.

Primal Water. Sells better, I hear.

[Necron2.0]

Actually, given that third party vendors aren't going to be abandonning 3.5 any time soon, probably the simplest and cheapest way to deal with 4e is simply to ignore it.

[Starbuck_II]

Now for number 4:

Beguiler:
Sadly less charms available, but it say strangely more effective in combat.
I don't understand that statement. I'm guessing that Andy Collins didn't like the Beguiler maybe...
He was decent in combat with spells...except against undead. So I guess he is right; you are more effective.

Dragon Shaman:
Inspiring Warlord with Dragonborn gives breath weapon back.

An idea not mentioned:
Thunderwave as encounter from 1/2 Elf works for breath weapon.

Duskblade:
Swordmage (when it comes out)
or
Scourge Warlock build with fighter multiclass build.

Knight:
"guardian fighter build (p76) or the protecting paladin build (p90) would be a good match for your knight."
It states Divine Challenge is an ancestor to Knight's Challenge.

That seems all for today, Next time Complete Arcane.

[Starbuck_II]

Part 5 and 6:

Part 5 Complete Arcane
Warlock is Warlock, really this is a great match.

War Mage: War Wizard Build fits.

Wu Jen: I found the advice an insult here. "the wu jen is essentially a wizard with a different spell list, so that’s probably the best class for you"
And this part:
"Regardless,... it’s easy enough to add the taboo class feature back into your character. I recommend picking one taboo at 1st level..."

The idea he gives is you get Taboo, but no bonuses that accompanied them. So he believes you get the penalty without a balancing bonus. Really, he couldn't think of any small bonus?
I mean, even skill focus bonus feat would be something.

Overall, I think Part 5 was good, but could have been done better.



Part 6: Complete Divine

Favored Soul
"Beyond a couple of fairly minor (or high-level) class features, a favored soul is basically a cleric who casts like a sorcerer"
So briefly, it states use Cleric or Paladin depending on how you would use your Favored Soul.

Shugenja
"This divine spellcaster combines powers traditionally associated with clerics with those more familiar to wizards"
Basically, depending opn elemet of your Shugenja, build that matches change.

Spirit Shaman
Here is where it gets good. An actual conversion. He suggests a modified devoted Cleric with a few changes.

First, take away chainmail proficiency (Spirit Shamans couldn't use it). Add nature to class skills.
Than change Turn undead: it chastise all spirits; this includes undead (of course instubstanial undead included), and creatures with elemental or fey origin.

Strangely, you can turn Drow and Eldrarin now.
Overall, I think Part 6 was the second best part (Part I was still my favorite for Monk suggestion).

Next time:
Tome of Battle.

[Vortling]

Overall these guides simple drive home the point that even the devs have stated: Scrap your 3.x ideas and start over from scratch since you're not going to get the same feel from the new system and the only thing you're really porting over is the fluff. For some people I'm sure that's enough. For me it just doesn't cut it. *shrugs*

Next time:
Tome of Battle.

I can tell you how they're going to do this set.

Warblade: They'll tell people to use fighters and pick up some warlord powers if they were using White Raven.

Crusader: They'll tell people to use paladins and pick up some warlord powers if they were using White Raven.

Swordsage: They'll tell the Shadow Hand and Diamond Mind focused ones to go rogue, the tiger claw and stone dragon ones to go ranger. The Desert Wind focused ones will be told to multiclass into wizard and pick up fire powers. The setting sun focused ones will be told to reflavor 'move the enemy' powers as 'throw the enemy'. Additionally they'll stick in something to give them unarmed combat.

We'll see if they surprise me but I don't expect much.

[Colmarr]

Overall these guides simple drive home the point that even the devs have stated: Scrap your 3.x ideas and start over from scratch since you're not going to get the same feel from the new system and the only thing you're really porting over is the fluff.

Actually, this is exactly the opposite of what WotC has said.

They have always said that the only thing you'll be able to transfer is the feel of the character. And so far, I think they've done a reasonable job at delivering on that promise.

[TheOOB]

As it stands, as long as you weren't playing a class that is completely unsupported by 4e as of yet (druid comes to mind) you can get a character out of 4e that is a reasonable approximation of your 3.5 character. Given, some characters will be more like their old characters when the new classes come out (barbarian, monk, ect) but you can still find something that will work in the interm period.

That said, I don't think any player should be required to convert their char to 4e. If you are converting your campaign to 4e, and a player doesn't want to change their char, let them roll a new char and make their old one an NPC. Some players have difficulty seeing their characters change.

[Starsinger]

Wu Jen: I found the advice an insult here. "the wu jen is essentially a wizard with a different spell list, so that’s probably the best class for you"
And this part:
"Regardless,... it’s easy enough to add the taboo class feature back into your character. I recommend picking one taboo at 1st level..."

The idea he gives is you get Taboo, but no bonuses that accompanied them. So he believes you get the penalty without a balancing bonus. Really, he couldn't think of any small bonus?
I mean, even skill focus bonus feat would be something.

First of all, why is that an insult? Second, fine, you may have automatic still spell to a spell of your choice.

[Starbuck_II]

First of all, why is that an insult?
Second, fine, you may have automatic still spell to a spell of your choice.

See, that would be a benefit. An insult: to treat with insolence, indignity, or contempt.
Letting you cast while stunned would be awesome (since my reading a 4.0 Still spell would let you cast that spell while stunned if it existed)

[SadisticFishing]

The taboos do not effect combat at all. So why would they give bonuses that do? It's a fluff thing, ignore it if you don't want it, play it if you do.

[Starbuck_II]

The taboos do not effect combat at all. So why would they give bonuses that do? It's a fluff thing, ignore it if you don't want it, play it if you do.

On 3.5, Taboos did matter.
In you can't face east, than any enemy east is not in your line of sight (check out Complete Arcane).
If you can't bath, than that will definately had reprocussions (luckily Prestigidation will cover that smell issue).
You could ignore maybe 1/2 of them, but most have an effect.

[TheDarkOne]

The taboos do not effect combat at all. So why would they give bonuses that do? It's a fluff thing, ignore it if you don't want it, play it if you do.

I agree, you shouldn't get any bonuses in combat for taking taboo. At most a very situational skill bonus to a social or knowledge skill.

edit:

On 3.5, Taboos did matter.
In you can't face east, than any enemy east is not in your line of sight (check out Complete Arcane).

I think you might want to check Complete Arcane, the actual suggested taboo is can't sit facing a certain direction. I don't think I've ever had a character who was seated during combat.(prone, or maybe crouched, yes, but not seated)

[Starbuck_II]

Tome of Battle:

Crusader:
Paladin or warlord.

Swordsage:
Striker: two blade Ranger or brawny rogue
Defender: Greatsword Fighter

Swordmage: "another option for swordsages who wish to retain their mix of melee prowess and supernatural powers".

WarBlade:
" I recommend looking at either of the fighter builds (p76), the two-blade ranger build (p114), or the brawny rogue build (p127). Warblades favoring White Raven discipline probably make good tactical warlords (p144)."

They also showed how each discipline is a type (like Striker, etc).

[EvilElitest]

can you do it backwards?
from
EE

[RTGoodman]

Join us next time for a look at psionic classes!

Well, that's certainly gonna be interesting...

[batsofchaos]

Let me guess:
Psion = Wizard reflavored
Psychic Warrior = Battle Wizard with Fighter multiclassing, reflavored
Soulknife = Greatweapon fighter, reflavored. Reflavored warlock multiclassing
Wilder = see Psion

[RTGoodman]

Let me guess:

Maybe, but I'm thinking more like:

Psion: Control Wizard
Psychic Warrior: Great Weapon Fighter/Wizard or Battle Wizard/Fighter
Soulknife: Rogue or TWF Ranger with skill changes, severely refluffed
Wilder: Infernal Pact Warlock

I don't know much about the CPsi classes, but Divine Mind'll probably be Cleric of some sort and Ardent could maybe be Fey-Pact Warlock/Cleric (which works flavor-wise, if not mechanically). Lurk is probably Rogue with Warlock or Wizard multiclass.

[Starsinger]

can you do it backwards?

Sure, remove a characters powers. For Martial characters throw in a couple of abilities around equivalence of a paragon tier feat at best. For Divine and Arcane characters give them interesting abilities (with Leaders and Controllers getting insanely strong abilities as they level). Also, remove the ability of Defenders to mark a target. Instead they should just sit there and pray (not in relation to cleric and paladin prayers) that the enemy hits them. There! That's a vague guide on converting backwards.

Edit: I forgot, replace the Warlord's powers with a few auras that are all kind of meh, and don't really stack. Call it a Marshall.

[Covered In Bees]

can you do it backwards?
from
EE

No. Good luck figuring out how to let a 3E fighter do things like Come and Get It, Silverstep, or Chains of Sorrow.

[Starbuck_II]

Part 9:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/20080808a

Wu Jen and Shugenja: see Complete Divine reference.

Shaman is similar to Devoted Cleric. Possibly multi into Fighter for more martial training.

Samurai:
You get the Ancestral; Diasho (so weapon stays relevant in +X's, level 25 get +6 weapon)

Sohei:
A Paladin with Divine Strength exchanged for a new power Ki Frenzy. Ability lasta till end of next turn improving attack, AC, and speed, but after it ends you get a penalty to attack rolls until end of encounter.

Part 10:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4dnd/20080815a

Truenamer:
Both Warlord or Cleric since most of abilities are support/healing.

Shadowcaster:

"Consider selecting either the deceptive warlock build (Player's Handbook p130) or the control wizard build (p157), using multiclassing in the opposite class to add flavor and options."
This does fit kinda. Only unique main strength of Shadowcaster was a really strrong nonlethal attack.

Binder:
1) Warlock (both get pacts)
2) Get best of every world... see quote below:


"If you choose the second option, you’re best off working with your DM to build your character as a compilation of powers from a variety of classes. This completely throws the class role concept out the window—and also threatens to marginalize other characters in the group as you infringe on their specialties—so follow this path with care. For instance, you might try to select most of your powers from classes occupying the same role in order to avoid stepping on other characters’ toes too much."

I think that the Binder might be a cool conversion.

[FdL]

I think the best indication of what the druid will look like is the Shapeshifting Druid from PHB II, which I like a lot. The druid from the article looks like a stopgap to give you a little bit of that favor, but not a whole lot.

Yeah, this is spot on. the Shapeshifting mechanics are a streamlined, no-fuss, non-abuseable version of Wild Shape and it has the kind of modular philosophy that 4e promotes.

I do think that 4e shapeshifting will be even more modular, that is, shapes won't be states, but more played as attacks or ongoing effects. For example, something like "Pounce of the Wildcat: you shift 3 squares and hit a single target, after hitting you shift 1 square back".