Hide in plain sight 3.5

[Enguhl]

From what I gather from this ability, you can (if in shadowy illumination or less; or have something like tall grass around you) just make a hide check even while people are watching you. Is this correct?
I just rolled up a rogue and I got Hide in plain Sight from a template, just wanted to double check if that's how it works.

[LeZebra]

Regularly, creatures become aware of you after you make an attack when you are hidden, thus breaking your Stealth. Hide in Plain Sight allows you to remain hidden no matter what action you take, so long as you meet two conditions: you were hidden before you use this power, and you do not move from your current square.

So, first you need to get hidden. You can do this by having cover or concealment (sure, dim illumination for normal visioned creatures will work, or a tree or thick bushes if the DM says they provide cover) and making a Stealth check. Then, after you are hidden, you can use this power (use it when you are in the best spot...it seems like it would be perfect for being around a corner and using some attacks: the corner provides cover, and even if they come around the corner and "break" your cover, thereby normally not allowing you your Stealth check, you'll remain invisible, and able to make attacks to boot).

Pretty sweet ability that one, though quite a high level, and it works against one of the Rogue's primary strengths, which is mobility on the battlefield.

[Epinephrine]

Yes, it's stupidly good when combined with Camouflage.
High level rangers and scouts are essentially invisible outdoors.

[Worira]

This is why you should put edition tags on your posts, people.

Anyway, I'm AFB ATM FYI TBQH, but what template? Dark? Umbral? I think they have slightly different forms of HiPS.

[erikun]

Indeed; from the context, I think that Enguhl is talking about the 3.5e version.

[3.5e] The Ranger ability Hide in Plain Sight will allow you to use the Hide skill, reguardless of who is watching - as long as you are in a natural environment. And yes, that works well with the Camouflage ability, which allows you to hide in any sort of natural terrain - even a barren plain.

<edit> And as Worira mentioned, another class's Hide in Plain Sight could be slightly different.

[4e] The rogue power Hide in Plain Sight needs to be used while you are currently hidden. You are invisible until you leave that square, by any means. Attacking does not drop the invisibility. As long as you stay there, you remain invisible.

[Chronicled]

Pretty sweet ability that one, though quite a high level, and it works against one of the Rogue's primary strengths, which is mobility on the battlefield.

Not necessarily; you can get it at level 1 with the Dark template, for instance (only +1 LA, to boot).

Also, battlefield mobility does not a Rogue describe. Rogues can make use of mobility to get into a flanking position--but after that, the business becomes full attacking and dropping oodles of Sneak Attack dice. Once a Rogue's in position, ideally he won't have to move until his enemy drops.

[Enguhl]

Yes, I got it from the dark template, and mobility is what I'm going for (40ft speed due to template).

[Chronicled]

Yes, I got it from the dark template, and mobility is what I'm going for (40ft speed due to template).

You know about the Scout class, right? If you don't, it's in Complete Adventurer, and you might want to give it a look-see.

[Curmudgeon]

From what I gather from this ability, you can (if in shadowy illumination or less; or have something like tall grass around you) just make a hide check even while people are watching you. Is this correct?

Yes -- mostly. Hide in Plain Sight is actually several different abilities with the same name. Principally these break down into two categories:

• Supernatural HiPS (Assassin, Shadowdancer)
• Extraordinary HiPS (others)

The basic difference is that the Supernatural Hide in Plain Sight includes an extra ability (bolded):

Hide in Plain Sight (Su)

A shadowdancer can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind.

In contrast, the Extraordinary versions still require cover/concealment:

Hide in Plain Sight (Ex)

While in any sort of natural terrain, a ranger of 17th level or higher can use the Hide skill even while being observed.

Rangers have a separate ability that takes care of the cover/concealment requirement to Hide:

Camouflage (Ex)

A ranger of 13th level or higher can use the Hide skill in any sort of natural terrain, even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment.

I just rolled up a rogue and I got Hide in plain Sight from a template, just wanted to double check if that's how it works.

The Dark Creature Template is Extraordinary, and thus only satisfies the "not being observed" Hide requirement. It doesn't meet the cover/concealment requirement, so you'll always have to find some other way to handle that, else you can't Hide.

While tall grass will almost always provide concealment (exceptions mostly from creatures flying overhead), shadowy illumination certainly won't help against enemies with darkvision. The chief limitation of the Dark Creature Template HiPS is that you don't know if some random hostile creature will be able to ignore your concealment attempts. Rangers, with two different abilities (HiPS and Camouflage) always know they can Hide in natural terrain, and because shadows are everywhere, Shadowdancers do the job pretty much everywhere (except in an Antimagic Field). With the Dark Creature Template HiPS? Depends on the sensory equipment of the opponent.

[Enguhl]

Thanks Curmudgeon, that cleared it all up for me.

[Chronos]

While tall grass will almost always provide concealment (exceptions mostly from creatures flying overhead), shadowy illumination certainly won't help against enemies with darkvision.

Unless it's from magical darkness:

This spell causes an object to radiate shadowy illumination out to a 20-foot radius. All creatures in the area gain concealment (20% miss chance). Even creatures that can normally see in such conditions (such as with darkvision or low-light vision) have the miss chance in an area shrouded in magical darkness.

[Person_Man]

Also note that using Hide generally (though not always) requires a Move action, and your enemy is only denied their Dex bonus for your first attack that reveals you.

So using Hide every round of combat is generally a bad idea, unless you can get by with just a Standard Action every round. There are ways around this, but it gets into some serious cheese.

[Bayar]

I usually use the Bluff/hide/sneak attack way.

That is, I do a bluff check to distract an opponent (you have a fly on your face !) , hide in front of him while he is not paying attention at me and immediately sneak attack him (I got the fly ! And your face ! ) .

[NobleSavage]

Also note that using Hide generally (though not always) requires a Move action, and your enemy is only denied their Dex bonus for your first attack that reveals you.

So using Hide every round of combat is generally a bad idea, unless you can get by with just a Standard Action every round. There are ways around this, but it gets into some serious cheese.

Out of purely academic interest, how might this be accomplished? Linky?

[Chronos]

Also note that using Hide generally (though not always) requires a Move action, and your enemy is only denied their Dex bonus for your first attack that reveals you.

An attack doesn't necessarily reveal you; it just gives you a -20 to your check. If you get your bonus up high enough, you can still remain hidden (though your enemy will almost certainly know that you're somewhere around, at least).

[Animefunkmaster]

Out of purely academic interest, how might this be accomplished? Linky?

A quick thought on making this playable would be: Dragonborn::wings:: strongheart halfing (Or Raptoran)

LA+1 (Dark Template)/Sword Sage #
Feats needed: Fly by attack

So, you need to be of a level where you can fly normally (you qualify at 6hd level) in order for fly by attack. Once you have it, and are airborn, you can make your move action and use a standard action anywhere in the middle of your movement. This is different from spring attack and ride by attack, you can use sword sage maneuvers in the middle of your movement. Also your move action (going at half speed) will let you make a hide check (as long as you have cover or the better versions of hide in plain sight). For this use, shadowdancer is better than the dark template.

[Enguhl]

Also note that using Hide generally (though not always) requires a Move action, and your enemy is only denied their Dex bonus for your first attack that reveals you.

So using Hide every round of combat is generally a bad idea, unless you can get by with just a Standard Action every round. There are ways around this, but it gets into some serious cheese.

Well I will be sniping, and since we are ECL 6 (I have a +1 LA) in this campaign, I don't have to worry about not getting the extra attacks (as a rogue).

[Curmudgeon]

Unless it's from magical darkness:

Thanks for that correction, Chronos. I originally had a longer version where I talked about magical concealment and things like blindsight, but it distracted from the main discussion of Hide in Plain Sight. From the associated mention of tall grass I assumed the OP was referring to natural concealment, but I should have at least mentioned the Darkness spell in my shorter response.

[Curmudgeon]

Also note that using Hide generally (though not always) requires a Move action, and your enemy is only denied their Dex bonus for your first attack that reveals you.

This isn't right. Hide most commonly requires movement, but that doesn't have to be a move action. You can Hide with a 5' adjustment, as that is movement -- even though it counts as "not an action".

Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Hide check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action.

On the other hand, sheathing a weapon (a move action) isn't going to help you Hide.

[Enguhl]

Hmmm... so character is all finished up, +38 to hide (39 if its dark), at this point hide in plain sight seems superfluous

[Person_Man]

Out of purely academic interest, how might this be accomplished? Linky?

There are several ways - most of which have already been posted by other intelligent playgrounders.

Sniping: Not doable at low levels for most builds, but definitely possible.

5 ft step: As Curmudgeon correctly points out, by RAW you can Hide as part of any movement. I've never met a DM who allows this though (including several times I tried to use Hide in Plain Site builds at conventions). With Evasive Reflexes and a reach weapon, it becomes ridiculous. But your DM results may vary.

Hustle: This can be gotten using and psionic class and/or Use Psionic Device.

Adept of Darkness: Hide in Plain Site as a Swift Action every round.

Combine any of these with Darkstalker (feat from Lords of Madness) and you can Hide against Tremorsense, Blindsight, etc.

Throw in a few levels of Setting Sun Ninja (Tome of Battle) and now all of your enemies will have to Save or be Blinded every round.

Having said all this, I've found that (like Polymorph and other cheesy rules) its a BAD idea to abuse Hide in Plain Site unless you're playing with a very powerful group. When you Hide, you can't be targeted. This means that your DM will have to find or create very exotic or powerful enemies in order to challenge you, potentially breaking the plot.

[its_all_ogre]

hide in plain sight is fairly easy to work around if you need to as a dm.
tremor sense, blindsight, blindsense and there are others too without homebrewing. within homebrew you can do whatever you want of course.

also +38 hide is nice, but no help if you're in a 20 by 20 room which is bare. hide in plain sight allows you to hide within 10 feet of a shadow...any shadow.

look around a room and try to find a shadow and you pretty soon realise this actually means 'hide anywhere you please except inside a magically lit area...and even then you probably can anyways'

[Chronos]

Hmmm... so character is all finished up, +38 to hide (39 if its dark), at this point hide in plain sight seems superfluous

Quite the contrary. Hide in Plain Sight is exactly the sort of thing that you want to complement your +38 hide. It doesn't replace it; it gives you more opportunities where you can use that skill modifier: All the Hide in the world is useless, if you're not allowed to make the check.

What would arguably be superfluous would be something like Invisibility. Against most enemies, it won't make you any less visible than you already are, and it won't be useful in that many more situations.