4e spells

[Doresain]

does anyone else feel like they did away with the creativity of the players when it comes to spells? so far i havent seen any spells that have any real use outside combat...especially when it comes to the illusionist...

imo arcane casters are the most fun when you are doing more than blasting and self-buffing...i wanna be able to create the illusion of a ghost using silent image to scare off the goblins...

i just wanna know if anybody else feels the same way about this or not

[Thrud]

Pretty much I'd say about 40% here dislike that to some extent or another. About 40% think it is great, and about 20% are undecided.

There are many many posts devoted to this subject.

Many, many, many, many, many, many, posts.

Possbily a few more manys too.

[Doresain]

i didnt realize...i should get on the boards more often i suppose

[Goober4473]

This is why they have rituals.

I think I'd like to see more fast-cast rituals. Sort of like spells, but entirely non-combat utility, with costly components. Like charm person. It shouldn't be a 10-mintue ritual. Maybe a mintue of talking to the person at the most, but more likely one standard action, and some gold worth of materials. But any threat would break the spell immediately, so it's non-combat.

But really, rituals are where real non-combat utilities come in. No need to waste all your powers preparing water walk, then become useless once combat starts because you used all your spell slots. You can just use a ritual.

[Crow]

Unfortunately, there are only about 3 rituals total, and they are very specific in what you can do with them. Most of them aren't even "utility", but more "nice to have, but meh..."

[namo]

While you have less potential than in 3E I fully intend to use the cantrips creatively: you can do quite a bit with just those 4.

For your example: Mage Hand for poltergeist-style action. Or put it under a white sheet. Add in Ghost Sound for a good moan. The start to Light up different objects at random...

Sure, it takes too many actions. But if your goblins are not rattled by then, the DM is not cooperating.

[JaxGaret]

Unfortunately, there are only about 3 rituals total

Oh c'mon! There's at least 4 rituals

[Dan_Hemmens]

does anyone else feel like they did away with the creativity of the players when it comes to spells? so far i havent seen any spells that have any real use outside combat...especially when it comes to the illusionist...

"Creativity" like "story" is one of those words that people instinctively use to mean "stuff that I like".

You say: "Getting rid of illusions stops players doing cool creative things like scaring goblins away with the Silent Image of a ghost".

I say: "Getting rid of illusions stops players doing boring, uncreative things like scaring goblins away with the Silent Image of a ghost."

3.X players are very, very used to the idea that there are a bunch of things which spellcasters can just do trivially. Some of us always found the *fact* that spellcasters could do those things trivially extremely annoying.

About the most significant work of magic Merlin ever performs is to disguise Uther Pendragon using what D&D would consider to be a fairly low level Illusion spell. Illusions are not trivial things, but they make things trivial, which is why I don't like games with generic "create illusion" powers.

[Doresain]

what about minion creating/summoning spells? what about mind raping spells?

only being able to blast and buff yourself reeks to much of WoW for me...and i dont know about you, but i play DnD to play DnD, not WoW

[THAC0]

what about minion creating/summoning spells? what about mind raping spells?

only being able to blast and buff yourself reeks to much of WoW for me...and i dont know about you, but i play DnD to play DnD, not WoW

Summoning spells were largely cut out due to the unbalancing nature of obtaining extra actions.

[Artanis]

And I'm betting that the Psi classes (or a Psi-based Controller at the very least) will have more mind-raping spells than you can shake a stick at.




Edit: As to the original topic:


No, I do NOT feel that doing away with stuff like illusions cuts down on the creativity of the players. For one thing, it only affects casters, so there is no "loss" or "gain" or any change whatsoever for non-casters on that front. Secondly, I think it actually increases the creativity because now, instead of saying "meh, I use Silent Image to spook the goblins", you actually have to think of something creative.

[Collin152]

And I'm betting that the Psi classes (or a Psi-based Controller at the very least) will have more mind-raping spells than you can shake a stick at.

You only need one, though.