My party sucks. Need RP reasons to stay with them.

[Ellisar]

Hi all!

I play a LN silvanesti elf* conjurer 3/Master Specialist 3 in a 3.5 campaign set in the Dragonlance setting, and I have encountered a number of problems that have made my character want to murder the rest of his party in their slep and wander off.

The style of play that we prefer involves absolutely brutal encounters, so any character that runs out of luck or is build badly is very likely to die, and we like it that way because we all like to optimize our characters and test our creations, though not all of us are equally good at optimizing. The problems started as the members of our original party (all dead now) started to die, and newer PC adjusted to the plotline entered play and started forcing the more original PCs down on a route that they do not like, and in some cases seems to be made to clash with existing characters. Lets go over the party and analyze the problem:

My character: Entered play at level 3, and is my 2nd character int his campaign. My character is a former silvanesti noble, who have witnessed his entire family slaughtered in battle against impossible numbers of goblins and the like, but were saved as his wizard mentor decided to teleport him to safety. My character escaped the occupied silvanesti lands on foot, took refuge in the neighbouring human lands, and were for a moment reunited with his wife before she died during a raid by a local goblin tribe.

Morriowyn: CE human fighter 2/swashbuckler 4: Entered play at level 2, and is the players 2nd PC in this campaign. A heartless mercenary who fights whoever he is paid to kill. He havent got much of a background, or he hides it very well. Seems friendly towards my character, and no problems exist as long as he continues to hide his evil tendencies.

Trook: LE half-ogre mystic 5 (weak cleric-like class). Entered play at adjusted level 4, and is the players 3rd character in the campaign. This is the DMs favourite PC. A former mercenary, who proudly boasts about his exploits against my characters people. Carries my characters brothers beaten up mythril shield and bloody tabard, and frequently brags about how he took those things as trophies after killing a 'pointy eared paladin'. Also a Neracan squire, and has been the protagonist of the campaignever since the party were forced to take refuge in Haven (a Neracan (Neracans = Eeeeeeeevil) city), and subsequently forced into armed service for the neracans. My character hates this guy with passion.

Kamir: NE human ranger 6. This character entered play at level 5, and is the players 4th character in this campaign. Also a Neracan squire. He havent got much of a background, and is beaten down to the negative HPs in almost every battle. He has murdered several innocent people in front of my character, and I have pretty much ratted him out to every law enforcement agency I got in contact with ever since. Also tries to murder my character once in a while, but has been horribly unsuccesful so far.

The trouble began with the Neracan story arc, form which the two most original PCs (my own and Morrowyn) want to flee, but the later PCs are basically made a part of through their allegiance with the Neracan Knights. Simply leaving Haven would result in us being forced to roll up new characters and follow the Neracan story arc in the heels of Trook, which we do not want to do, and staying would be out of character for us, not to mention that if any elf found out that I were fighting the Solamnic Knights (the archetypical good guys) under Neracan command, I would become a dark elf immediately.

What would you do in my place to make my character continued involvement in the plot make sense? I am all out of ideas.

* I know I know... I should be CG, but my personal interpretation of the silvanesti elves behaviour makes them too cruel to be truly good, and too puritan/autoritharian/bound by tradition to ba anything but lawful.

[Crow]

If you're lawful neutral, accepting a contract to help the other PC's wouldn't be too far off-base. Make them pay you for your assistance.

Or you can change. Sometimes characters do things that they wouldn't do on any sane day. "Everything told me to walk away, but for some reason, I just couldn't do that. I had to find out what was really going on..."

[Swordguy]

Offhand, you could just be friends with one of them. People'll do a lot for a buddy, and everyone has friends. Even really evil people.

[Bayar]

Stab them in their sleep and say "It was for the greater good".

[Revlid]

Okay, the Half-Ogre is really just trying to provoke you in the most obvious and ridiculously arrogant way - kill him in his sleep and retrieve his equipment.

As for the other one, the murderer - try to get him to stop killing innocents. If that doesn't work, try more extreme measures. Getting the law called down on you is no way to work, for your character or your 'friend'. Mercenaries should try to keep more of a low profile than that.

Really, your party seems to be morally grey, verging on the black, so you can't complain if the other characters are asses/sociopaths.

However, they similarly can't complain if you just kill the guy you obviously killed your brother and looted his body and is now flaunting his ancestral equipment in front of you. Jesus, heroes would kill BBEGs for that sort of thing - a LN character can sure as hell do that to a LE fellow PC.

[Emperor Tippy]

Stab them in their sleep and say "It was for the greater good".

Agreed, especially the ogre. You are a wizard 6, he is a weaker cleric with LA. You can take him.

As for why you would off him? He killed your bro and brags about it to your face.

Off the ranger as well and then go on the run to escape service with the Neracan's.

[kamikasei]

You say you want an IC reason to stay with the party. But it seems to me you're motivated by the OC desire not to have your characters become NPCs if they go in the wrong direction. This:

Off the ranger as well and then go on the run to escape service with the Neracan's.

...is a pretty in-character thing to do here, it seems to me. It looks like what's holding you back from it is the expectation that if your character goes on the run, the game will continue to focus on the Neracan plot, so you'll just have to make new characters and still be stuck in a situation you're not enjoying.

So, my advice would be: out of game, talk to the DM and the other players about how you and the other "more senior" player aren't enjoying the turn the game's taken. Try to find some way to leave the Neracan plot behind, if the others are willing, and get into something where your character feels he has a reason for staying with his party mates and perhaps where the newer players will moderate their behaviour a bit more.

[Ossian]

Question (sorry if I missed your answer): who's the boss? is there a "Roy Greenhilt"? in your party? Because that solves it all.

The group as it has been described is kind of one of the most mismatching ensemble of murderers and wannabe avengers ever. I guess that happens a lot in RPG where everyone comes u "cool character concepts" and forces the DM to juggle with plotlines to create a spot for such types.

Most of the time, it is just another band of murderers, with occasional forays into the overarching plotline. You slaughter stuff and pillage stuff 6 days a week, and go on a quest for the local hottie and the greater good 1/week. Fair enough.

Now, if this is the case, and there is not a leader in the group, well, your DM is just not doing his job.

Just like the reason Belkar Bitterleaf made it to strip 573 (and counting) is because Roy sort of tolerated him. So, if the half ogre of your campaign can.

a) walk in the company of humans (WEIRD!!! he is an 1/2 ogre! enemy!!!)
b) be a jerk with the only good player of the party

it better be because there is a "boss" somewhere reprimending him r something to that effect.

Is there no leader in the group? Not even an NPC? Ok, fea not my friend, because that means that internal consistency of your campaign has been flushed down the drain ages before you even started to worry about the 1/2 ogre.

You don't even need to say "I did it for a greater good". Just say: "I don't like your character, (name of your friend), and so does my character. I killed your 1/2 ogre for roleplay reason. Roll the stats for your next char please"


O.

[Eldariel]

I'd take the Half-Ogres life. He boasts by killing your family members, for Banjo's sake! People have been killed for lesser crimes. It doesn't hurt that the ½ Ogre is human (or well, half-ogre) garbage in every possible way - nobody would miss him, save for maybe the Stupid Evil Ranger.

Actually, do this:
-In an opportune sitiuation in combat, just let them die. Just don't raise a finger to save their asses and Get The Heck Out Of There, and rationalize that the odds were too strongly against us so you chose to fight another day. You're a Wizard. A Wizard does what nobody else can.


If an Elf finds you, just tell him "There's more going on here than you could possibly imagine." Heck, that could be the reason you're with the party; to make sure they die.

Alternatively, you could pull a Raistlin. Withstand the morons until you achieve godhood. They're maggots anyways.

[Conners]

Yeah, I really have to agree with killing the Half-Ogre and the guy who tries to kill you. Unless your DM is a TOTAL jerk, he should think it's fine for you to murder those evil guys. Also, you could still stay.

That other mercenary whose friendly to you works for whoever pays him, right? You could pay him to help you kill the other two guys, but you want to make CERTAIN he won't betray you at the last moment for some reason (some guarantee of future gold would be appropriate). Try to get the other guy who doesn't like the direction of the campaign to join you in this, too. With 3 to 2, in your favour, the DM should see it as logical that the campaign takes the direction of what the remaining PCs want to do. Better still, you could institute yourself as leader, if you play your cards right. Heck, if you want to, kill only the half-ogre and keep the murderous guy on a tight leash with the aid of your companions. If he can't kill you in general, he certainly can't with the aid of two people.

That sound good?

[JeminiZero]

I second (third? fourth?) killing the Ogre, and probably the Ranger. At your level, you should have access to Explosive Runes and dispel magic, the simplest recipe for instant kill. Gather everyone for a tea party, stand at least 15 ft away, and blow them up.

As for the semi-friendly but evil Fighter/Swash, while his help might be invaluable, his loyalty cannot be certain. Therefore I recommend killing the Ogre and Ranger without his help or knowledge, fleeing to a LG City, and THEN sending him a note telling him where you went, and invite him to join you.

[PnP Fan]

You've got two options with regards to the brother murdering oger:
1. Avenge your brother's death.
2. Accept that his death occurred on the field of battle, and was an honorable one (if that is the case).

In any case, the ogre is behaving like a 12 year old. Treat him (the characters) as such. Eventually he'll get angry, and attack. All you have to do is kill him then. It'll be honorable combat, no one can dispute your right to kill him if he attacks first. You can then claim your ancestral adventuring gear and continue with the game.

As for the other guy, the one that tries to murder you. . . Why are you putting up with that in the first place? As a Player or as a Character? Next time he tries to kill you, kill him back. Your character is LN, not Good. Forgiveness is not, necessarily, in your nature. Especially if you can't find any support in the local legal system.

Tippy's right, your a full 6th level Wizard. You have the advantage. The ogre traded in class abilities for a weak class, and hit dice from his race. The ranger went for either two weapon fighting or rapid shot. A little spell armor, and a coup de grace in the night with a spell should take care of both of these guys.

Oh, and take care of the murderer first. He's actively trying to kill you. If you are burned out of spells after dealing with the ogre, he will try and kill you that night. The ogre doesn't expect you to kill him, or at least, isn't waiting for an opportunity to kill your character. Take care of him second, preferrably after a big fight where he's taken damage and you haven't.

Then, I'd go ahead and be ready to change characters, possibly two or three times. Either their next characters will seek vengance on their previous characters, for no good reason, or you should just send your character away, because he really has no good reason for being there. I think Invisibility is somewhere in your spell list at 6th level. If not, certainly Alter Self is. Disguise your way out.

Good luck!

Edit: Oh, and by the way, once you've rid yourself of these troublesome characters, and possibly moved on in the campaign with the other players, be more judgemental in who you allow to join the adventuring party. Just because the GM approves the characters doesn't mean that your character has to. Interview the characters, find out what they are about before you let them join your traveling party. If they are not up to snuff, tell them that "We don't have a need for a <insert character class/race/nationality> right now. Please come again later, our needs are constantly changing." Adventurers don't just travel with any only adventurer unless they are truly desperate.
BTW, as one of the two original characters in the story, how is it that there is a story left? And if there is a story, why isn't it revolving around the two of you, or whatever story the two of you took on at the beginning of the campaign? I'm smelling a bad GM that doesn't understand basic narrative principles, but I could be wrong.

[Paul H]

Hi

Doesn't sound like you're having much fun in this campaign.

Pity you're not the party Cleric, or you could withold healing, plus the Holy Storm trick - "oops I forgot you were Evil when I included you in the Holy Storm..."

You could off the Half-Ogre - but what's the player like? Would they take it personally & try to get revenge? Ask the DM if there's any Holy weapons in the campaign, then let the problem carry them. (Or use them yourself).

If you need to off anyone, ask the Dm if you can use Lssr Orb spells to coup de gras, then use Lssr Cold Orb. That's 6D8 cold damage, plus Fort save vs instant death. No sign of violence on the body after the ice/cold dissapates.

Cheers
Paul H

[xPANCAKEx]

If the Ogre is so horrible, surely he must have some sort of price on his head? Shop him in. That would be justice - and fairly LN

Infact - It would be LN to place the price on him yourself (descretely of course), bring a villain to justice. Of course if you were LE, you could just hire some cut throats (bound to be ten a penny in an evil city) to ambush and slay him next time hes out shopping or on his way to the temple.

Of Course hes probably your DMs favourite because he is such a "big" character. Hog the lime light a little yourself... some "avenge my brother" ritcheos action should swing over some lovely DM favour

[PnP Fan]

Paul brings up a good point. Given what you're saying, I can honestly say, this is not a campaign I would enjoy. At all. Not even a little bit. Of course, different strokes for different folks, and if that's the game you and your friends enjoy, then great. But if all of this inter-party conflict is a problem in the game, where players are constantly seeking revenge against one another, you might want to deal with this stuff OOC, perhaps let the campaign die.

[Jayabalard]

So, my advice would be: out of game, talk to the DM and the other players about how you and the other "more senior" player aren't enjoying the turn the game's taken. Try to find some way to leave the Neracan plot behind, if the others are willing, and get into something where your character feels he has a reason for staying with his party mates and perhaps where the newer players will moderate their behaviour a bit more.

Ageed with this and Paul. This is an out of game problem. It doesn't sound like you're enjoying the game very much. The solution should really be an out of game solution rather than an in-game solution.

From my perspective you should Talk to the players and DM to see if you can't get the game to go in a direction that you'll enjoy. If you can't salvage the existing campaign, then maybe it's time to switch it up and start a different campaign. If you can't get them to budge, you either need to find a way to enjoy the game as it is, or take a walk and stop playing that particular game; sticking around in a game that you don't enjoy can strain friendships or even sour you on D&D in general, especially if you start killing other PCs and let that sort of thing escalate into revenge killing after revenge killing.

[Kizara]

If you don't feel confident taking the ogre and ranger 2v1 at this level (understandable), just wait until you get to 9. You have more then enough options to take them then.


Honestly, you said your group likes optimizing (and you sound like you have the same playstyle I do, if less mature players)?

Who the heck goes ranger 6 in a self-respecting build? Is he archery or TWF spec? Both are bad, one is just wrose. You also note that he seems crap at playing the character in game and fails alot in combat. Someone needs to get voted off the island.

Now we have a half-ogre cleric-wannabe that goes out of his way to antagonize you? Garbage optimization-wise and is actively disruptive to the game (although for some reason your DM likes this ?). Should be cut as well.


It sounds like the trash is pulling you guys down with it and in a plot-direction you can't stand. Get the players/characters that mean something, draw a line in the sand, tell them (the H-Ogre and ranger) that they're done if they cross it. Hopefully they throw a fit and act like the tards they seem to be, then you can just kill them. If the players are redeemable tell them what you think about a character specifically made to antagonize you, and then tell them next time to bring something that can actually hold a candle to yours. (basically, if you are going to talk sheit and stir sheit up, you better be damn able to back it up)

[Premier]

The problem is that you have several pretty serious OOC problems. Now, here's an important fact that that OotS-ers tend to ignore (or are not even aware of) 99% of the time:

OOC problems cannot be solved by IC solutions. If you have OOC (and/or metagaming) problems with the game, bring it up with the DM and the players, not with the characters. IC "solutions" will just make everything worse in the long run.

Read that again. Memorise it. Internalise it.

Having said that, the only sensible thing you can do is wait for a good opportunity, preferably not in the middle of the game, and just explain to the others that you have a number of problems with the game. And if the resulting discussion doesn't solve your problems, then vote with your feet and stop playing with these people.

Now, at this point, you might be tempted to say "But they're my friends! I can't just leave their game, that would hurt our friendship!" Think about this again, for a moment. If friends don't cause each other grief over the game, than they shouldn't be doing it to you - maybe they're not aware that they're doing it, that's why you need to bring it up. If they're truly your friend and are worht playing with, they'll partake in intelligent conversation and try to come up with a solution. Alternatively, if it's okay for friends to grief each other over the game, than that works both ways and it's okay for you to grief them by leaving and finding another gaming group.

Anyway, back to what to do: so, sit down with them and discuss your problems in a calm and reasonable manner, but be affirmative. Rule 0 is that everyone should have fun. You have as much right to have fun with the game as the others, never forget that. The way I see it, you have the following problems (I might be wrong, so do clarify):

- The campaign started out as a Good/Neutral one, then it slowly slipped into an Evil game as new characters arrived. You prefer Good/Neutral campaigns and have no interest in Evil ones.

- As a corollary to the above, your fellow players seem to be totally insensitive to other players' preferences, as evidenced by them starting to create Evil characters for a non-Evil party. This is a big NO. It might be fun to try out new builds and whatnot, but party integrity takes precedence. Every character ever created is mandated by the rules to take either the "Meshes Well With The Already Existing Characters" feat, or the "Won't Cause Friction In The Party" racial template. A character lacking both is simply not a legal character in D&D.

- The DM is favouring one particular PC (Trook), and so much so that he's basing the entire game around him. You feel that Trook's player is hugging all the spotlight from the others, who are relegated to virtual NPC roles. (Other players might even agree with you on this one.)

- One player - and make no mistake, it's the player, not the character - is deliberately frustrating you (Trook's). For gods' sake, he created a character specifically to abuse yours constantly! This is never, EVER acceptable.



Frankly, no offense, but it seems your fellow players are pretty, well, ****e, at least as roleplayers. I probably would have left a long time ago.

[kamikasei]

The problem is that you have several pretty serious OOC problems. Now, here's an important fact that that OotS-ers tend to ignore (or are not even aware of) 99% of the time:

I agree with your advice, but want to point out that the "don't try to solve OOC problems in-game" principle is brought up all the time on these boards by any number of different posters, including in this thread by a few people.

[Jayabalard]

I agree with your advice, but want to point out that the "don't try to solve OOC problems in-game" principle is brought up all the time on these boards by any number of different posters, including in this thread by a few people.

yeah, but the ratio of rational people who preach the "solve ooc problems with ooc methods" gospel to people who just offer suggestions on how to off the rest of his party is pretty small. In this thread, the people suggesting killing the party outnumber the "talk to the players/DM" by about 2:1. I've seen threads that go multiple pages before someone says "whoa, wait, time out, you've got to talk to the players/DM and deal with this out of game"

[warmachine]

Have to agree with Premier. At the very least, I'd state that a bloody intraparty conflict is a logical consequence of character values and beliefs and suggest that reality be edited to eliminate the reason for conflict.

Let's assume the others aren't jerks and they say that bloody in-fighting makes a good story and they wouldn't be upset if their PCs were backstabbed or betrayed for vaid in-character reasons. Well, I try to avoid assuming the worst of people. Your character conspires with the others to make sure they stay out of the conflict, then you call out Trook in a duel for murdering your brother and kill him. It would be entirely consistent with the character.

If my assumption is incorrect, you don't have a real world reason to stay, let alone a roleplaying reason.

[Kizara]

yeah, but the ratio of rational people who preach the "solve ooc problems with ooc methods" gospel to people who just offer suggestions on how to off the rest of his party is pretty small. In this thread, the people suggesting killing the party outnumber the "talk to the players/DM" by about 2:1. I've seen threads that go multiple pages before someone says "whoa, wait, time out, you've got to talk to the players/DM and deal with this out of game"

At least for me, giving this sort of advice is repetitive and boring. It's much funner and more satisfying to be able to say "yea! go kick his ass!". This is how the Action Movie genre is structured :).

[Tokiko Mima]

I always recommend solving problems with a storyline OOC too, but come on! Imagine if someone dangled an item from a slain family member in front of you and bragged about killing them... there's no way to calmly step back from that or work out a truce. You'd have to have some deep emotional issues (or serious family troubles!) for that not to affect you.

Definately discuss with the DM and other players how uncomfortable your character is with the the very dark path this is going to take. Understand that the DM might already have it planned that you follow this plot and you may end up having to adjust your characters expectations in order to continue playing him. There may be a good reason the game is going this way.

However, at the end of the day, the half ogre has to die. Don't kill him because you want to solve some OOC issue. Don't kill him because you as a player want him dead. Kill him because as a character he has murdered, slandered, and continues to defile your families memory. Some crimes don't warrant forgiveness or mercy!

[Eldariel]

Just about the 'Lawful Neutral isn't necessarily forgiving', Lawful actually offers the option of being very rigid and unforgiving. For example, Judge Dredd is definitely a Lawful character (really the epitome of Lawful), and he wouldn't forgive anyone for anything (without still being Evil). So by alignment, you've definitely got justifications to kill both of the offending party members.

Further, the party is evil, which tends to create internal conflict, a lot of it. Evil party also should have no issues solving the conflict through blood, especially if it's longstanding and requires vengeance, such as the acting of the Half-Ogre.

So IC, the character has every justification to kill them both.

[mikeejimbo]

An optimized Mystic? I was a Mystic in a Dragonlance campaign for a while, but I was totally not optimized. And my party, though evil, didn't want to kill me, either. (I was the only Neutral member). Eventually I converted to a Cleric of Reorx, but anyway...

Oh, yeah, that's off topic.

Um, I agree that this is totally an OOC problem. Especially the guy that keeps trying to kill you for no apparent reason.

[erikun]

Okay, sounds like you have an OOC problem and an IC problem.

The OOC problem is that the DM isn't considering your character at all. It sounds like he's focusing all the party's plotlines around the half-Ogre and the Neracan angle, and doesn't seem to care about much else. I could be reading this wrong - perhaps the DM is very hands-off, and that's just where your party ended up - but it doesn't sound like it. You need to get in touch with your DM and let him know that the game has pretty much ignored your character's motivations and has focused on the half-Orge's. You'll want to have some examples of your character's motivations for the DM to work with, so think of what goals your character wants to pursue.

If that doesn't work, consider removing your character via deus ex machina. One morning, the party suddenly finds the elf missing - it turns out the elf used a teleport scroll in the middle of the night to return home and report on what he found out in Neraca. He'll likely become a recurring BBNG, but at least he'll still have your character's values - sticking with the elves, and fighting the evil Neracans. It's up to you if you want to roll up another character at that point or not.

I'm assuming the party friction is IC rather than OOC. If it is OOC, you'll need to talk to your DM about that, too.

Your IC problems are a lot easier to fix, actually. Assuming your character doesn't end up teleporting away, the half-Ogre/ranger problems seem almost intending on solving themselves. Just wait for the ranger to get himself killed - highly likely the way things are heading. That night, wake up the swashbuckler, let him know you're leaving the Neracan mess and offer him the oportunity to go with you. Then, use a sleep potion on the half-Ogre, take your brother's equipment and all the half-Ogre's supplies (offer the swashbuckler anything he wants, except your brother's equipment) and then leave the half-Orge behind. Make sure you take his weapon and holy symbol, and he'll be pretty much useless. That's a far better revenge that stabbing him in his sleep, after all - and you can direct the storyline somewhere away from Neraca from there.

[DeathQuaker]

Agree with those saying that this isn't working because players aren't being cooperative--and go re-read the bolded section in Premier's post a few times. So you need to deal with your fellow players--and especially, at least talk it through with your DM--not just try to fix your character's background. You can write motivation till the cows come home, and if (the following is hyperbole for illustrative purposes) Bobby the Powermad Gamer is intent on having his character kill everyone in the party because he thinks it would be fun, that motivation is going to do squat.

D&D is a cooperative tabletop game, not a MMORPG designed for PVP pwning. Sure, people can play evil, and people can play jerks, but if PCs are out to get each other--which generally means players are out to prove "the awesome" of their characters more than play WITH each other--then there's no point to playing D&D with each other at all. Sure, it's fun to do the occasional arena style battle or whatever, but trying to play a plot-filled campaign with players who want to play intentionally antagonistic (or loner) PCs is sort of like trying to bathe a feral cat. It's just not going to work out for you.

So, like everyone else has said, talk to your GM and talk to your players about, "hey guys, if we really want to play an RPG here, we need to come up with a group backstory and stop trying to hack each other to bits."

If they don't want to, then you want an RPG and they want a hackfest. IMHO, in that case, get rid of the character sheets and story entirely and play some D&D Miniatures, or introduce them to full on wargaming. Honestly (this is coming from both an avid RPGer and wargamer), you'll probably have a whole lot more fun that way.

[Aquillion]

All you people suggesting that he kill the half-ogre in his sleep are missing something:

Trook: LE half-ogre mystic 5 (weak cleric-like class). Entered play at adjusted level 4, and is the players 3rd character in the campaign. This is the DMs favourite PC.

From the sounds of it, the DM has basically railroaded the entire campaign around this guy. Kill him in his sleep? Yeah, good luck with that.

There are plenty of DMs that would let you get away with this... but if we were talking about one of them, I doubt the OP would be in this situation in the first place.

[Lochar]

Summoning can be done from a distance greater than the h-ogre can wake up, get up from prone, and partial charge. So by the rules, you could get a Summon Monster III off and get a huge fiendish monstrous centipede to play with him while you summon more friends.

[The_Werebear]

You want an RP reason to stay with them?

Spoiler

Show

You want to kill that self righteous Half Ogre Bastard. Having him be dead isn't enough. You have to kill him yourself. Not in his sleep either. You want him to suffer, to see all he has cast down before him, to let him weep over the ashes of everything he ever cared about, just as you weep for your lost brother.

But for this complete revenge to be a reality, you can't let him know it is coming. Let him build. Let him plan, and gain power. You're becoming stronger too, and watching him. Learn his secrets. His habits. His strengths and weaknesses. Shield him from the less worthy who would rob him from your hand. Build him into a tool that you know exactly how to break. And when the time is right, and when he thinks he has triumphed, destroy him utterly in your brother's name.

Good enough?