book of nine swords confusion

[quiet1mi]

hey folks, i finally caved in to my curiosity and picked up book of nine swords and my only response is...Huh?

i was wondering if anyone could explain the stances and martial powers found in that book... i can not make heads or tails off of it...

[Covered In Bees]

hey folks, i finally caved in to my curiosity and picked up book of nine swords and my only response is...Huh?

i was wondering if anyone could explain the stances and martial powers found in that book... i can not make heads or tails off of it...

Did you actually, you know, read through the book in order? Because it explains it all for you.

Stances take a swift action to activate/deactivate, and remain active indefinitely. You can only have one Stance active at a time (barring special abilities that let you have two); switching into a new one is just like activating one in the first place (and you don't need to deactivate the old one, it does it automatically).

The martial maneuvers do what it says they do in the text. You know a certain number, out of which you can ready a certain number, but you can't prepare multiple "copies" of one maneuver.

[Waspinator]

What do you not understand? The book gives you several new melee classes that use the various new abilities in there. Overall, the goal is to basically make melee characters a little bit more like casters in the sense that they have many "powers" that they can use during combat and get to choose between. Is there anything specific that you have questions about?

[Hal]

Stances are like a buff, except they're active indefinitely, or until you decide to activate a different one.

Maneuvers are like melee "spells." Some take a standard action to use, others are swift actions.

Each class uses them differently. Imagine you had three types of wizard, where one had access to Necromancy and Evocation, another to Illusion and Enchantment, and the last to Transmutation and Conjuration. It's just like that; each class only has access to certain maneuvers and stances, each under a different school of the Nine Swords.

[quiet1mi]

Stances are like a buff, except they're active indefinitely, or until you decide to activate a different one.

Maneuvers are like melee "spells." Some take a standard action to use, others are swift actions.

Each class uses them differently. Imagine you had three types of wizard, where one had access to Necromancy and Evocation, another to Illusion and Enchantment, and the last to Transmutation and Conjuration. It's just like that; each class only has access to certain maneuvers and stances, each under a different school of the Nine Swords.

thank you sooo much this is the explanation that is easiest for my tired brain to comprehend...

[AslanCross]

I don't blame you. I found it rather confusing at first as well. However, after reading through it in detail I learned it's actually rather simple.

The new classes are simply melee characters who learn stances and maneuvers in a way that can be compared to how a wizard or sorcerer learns spells as he gains levels. Stances are simply "states" that you take a swift action to initiate. They give bonuses to your character that are related to the flavor of that particular discipline. Stone Dragon's stances, for example, focus on stability. Desert Wind's capitalize on speed and the use of fire.

Maneuvers are "techniques" that scale in a similar manner to spells. Most of them are standard actions that you make in place of your normal basic attack, though many of them include a basic attack anyway while adding something more. For example, Stone Dragon's Ancient Mountain Hammer adds a whopping 14d6 damage on top of your melee attack, which also ignores hardness and DR.

You ready a certain number of maneuvers you know every day, and these can be refreshed in a limited manner during encounters, or changed in between encounters. They don't run out in the same manner that wizard or sorcerer spells do.

The Crusader is basically a more combat-oriented take on the paladin, and his maneuvers are divinely-inspired. He has the least disciplines to choose from, but he's great on defense.

The Swordsage can be anything from a Shaolin monk to a stealthy assassin to Drizzt Do'Urden. He focuses on light armor, mobility, and versatility (he gets the most maneuvers known).

The Warblade is very similar to the fighter. While he isn't proficient in heavy armor, he can take one of several paths. If you specialize in the White Raven discipline, you make an excellent commander and play up the tactical abilities of your allies. If you decide to go Stone Dragon, however, you end up as a heavy bruiser who excels in both offense and defense.

[Turcano]

If you have Tome of Battle, you'll never want to play a fighter ever again. For example, if you're into mobility (or even if you're not), you can use Wolf Pack Tactics to move around the battlefield with a full attack. (By the way, if you're a 20th level warblade, how does Wolf Pack Tactics interact with Press the Advantage? Would it give you a bonus five feet on all of your bonus 5-ft. steps, or just one?)

[Waspinator]

I'd say that one of the best parts of that system is the fact that the strikes and whatnot can be replenished so easily. One of the things I find silly about 4E is how there are many "once per day" abilities given to non-magical classes. I can understand why a spell might have limitations on how often it can be used and why using a special martial attack might tire you enough that you can't use it limitlessly again back to back, but why on earth (or your D&D equivalent) would a non-magical sword attack be usable only once per day?

[Gwain]

but why on earth (or your D&D equivalent) would a non-magical sword attack be usable only once per day?

Skill Balance

[Pinnacle]

I can understand why a spell might have limitations on how often it can be used and why using a special martial attack might tire you enough that you can't use it limitlessly again back to back, but why on earth (or your D&D equivalent) would a non-magical sword attack be usable only once per day?

It's something the PC can only pull of in situations where he sees a way to do it, which doesn't happen that often. The player decides when it happens.

[RukiTanuki]

It's something the PC can only pull of in situations where he sees a way to do it, which doesn't happen that often. The player decides when it happens.

Agreed. It's easier to play along if you view a martial daily as that one moment in combat where everything comes together perfectly. The player might be deciding that said moment is now, but the PC isn't; they're counting themselves fortunate that an opening appeared and they were able to take advantage of it.

Like HP systems, it's a bit of an abstraction, and it's easier to make the flavor text fit an individual scene, rather than insist that character ability X is always described as inworld action Y without deviation.

[Treguard]

I always chalked it up as "for drama's sake". Those daily's would lose a lot of their pizazz if you could use them at will.

[Tengu_temp]

I can understand why a spell might have limitations on how often it can be used and why using a special martial attack might tire you enough that you can't use it limitlessly again back to back, but why on earth (or your D&D equivalent) would a non-magical sword attack be usable only once per day?

The official explanation is that dailies are so straining you can't pull off the same technique again before resting and preparing. Encounter powers are a bit less tiring, so you can use them again after resting just a bit.

[Covered In Bees]

The official explanation is that dailies are so straining you can't pull off the same technique again before resting and preparing. Encounter powers are a bit less tiring, so you can use them again after resting just a bit.

It is? I don't think it is.



Also, I'd like to point out that the 3E barbarian had a daily/encounter power, and so she would.


I think of martial Dailies like this: if you hit with one, your character successfully does something extraordinary. He could have been trying to do it the whole encounter, he could have seen a sudden opening and exploited it, and etc. It's not that when you're using your daily power, the character is using a special technique; it's that when you're using it, your character succeeds at something. It's like spending an action point. You don't spend an action point when your character would be trying to stabilize, your character stabilizes when you spend an action point.

[Tengu_temp]

It is? I don't think it is.

PHB, Page 54:
"If you're a martial character, you're reaching into your deepest reserves of energy to pull off an amazing exploit."

[Covered In Bees]

PHB, Page 54:
"If you're a martial character, you're reaching into your deepest reserves of energy to pull off an amazing exploit."

Aha. What the hell, sure, why not.

And before anyone gets to it, the reason you can still use your other dailies is the same reason you can still fight just as well at 1 HP and the same reason a 3E barbarian can still drag a ton of weight and jump around like a monkey even though he can't rage anymore.