Should I get Mutants and Masterminds and/or Shadowrun?

[Conners]

This thread is for convincing me, and anyone else reading this thread who doesn't own one or both of the above, into getting or not getting the above (Mutants and Master minds, and Shadowrun)m

From what I've heard, the former is a superhero and supervillain set-up, with rules for doing some pretty bizarre stuff (which is good).
The latter seems to be the modern age of basic DnD, putting the elves, etcetera, into cities--giving them huge guns.

That's what I've heard, and the only stuff I know about the above systems (besides hearing a few feat names). Can you please give me links/info/input/etcetera on whether you think I should or shouldn't get one or both of these?

One question I have in particular: With the change of DnD from 3.5e to 4e, has this effected M&M or Sr at all? Also, have they also changed editions of late?

[Tengu_temp]

The answer to "should I check out a new game instead of sticking to DND only" is always yes. Unless the game in question is FATAL

From what I know about M&M, it's a wonderfully versatile system that allows you to represent anything, based on d20 but throwing away all the stupid stuff and replacing them with awesome. I've yet to meet someone who played it and didn't like it. Although I've heard second edition is much better than first one.

Shadowrun is not cyberpunk DND. It's skill-based, not level-based, and as skill-based games tend to do, it's much deadlier. It has also a lot of flavour, although this changes with each edition. If you like cyberpunk, it's worth picking up, although you'd have to ask someone who actually played it for more details.

[Destro_Yersul]

Shadowrun is good. Only version of it I've played is 4th, which is the most recent and seems to be quite well done. There's a lot of background, which is nice, but there's not so much that it's difficult to come up with something new. I'm running a campaign of it for a few friends, and so far they all like it too.

[Chronicled]

Shadowrun 4 is a great, great system (one that's less prone to power creep than I expected, too). I've only glanced at M&M 2nd edition, but I've heard many great things about it from friends.

[Tsotha-lanti]

M&M is the most elegant thing to come out of the d20 rules. Get it. (1st edition is absolutely horrible; it's "D&D Superheroes", with a lot of D&D baggage and stupid clunkiness - some powers are feats, etc. - but 2nd edition is hardly even recognizable.)

Shadowrun... eh. Cyberpunk 2020 is better for the genre.

And I gotta agree with Tengu_temp - any RPG is better than D&D, usually.

[Green Bean]

I'm going to throw my vote in for Mutant and Masterminds. It's amazing in terms of genre emulation (especially the Hero Point system, which encourages good RP as well as making for for versatile characters and cool stunts), and you'll be able to stat up pretty much any hero you can think of.

[hewhosaysfish]

M&M is good fun. I've played in one game that was supposed to be 4-colours style but apparently it works for other styles too (we were using the nothing-does-lethal-damage optional rule).
The way that absolutely everything is points-buy together with the effect-descriptor divorce means that you can build a character to pretty much any concept you want.
I haven't been over the rules with the rules with a fine-tooth comb but it all seems pretty balanced: the Power-Level system prevents you from dumping a bajillion points on one uber-power and - at the other end of the power scale - one of the guys I was playing with had to make his character more competent than he had planned to use up all his build-points.
Just watch out for some of the more notable issues: don't let PCs have the Nemesis power without a very, very good reason; make sure all their arrays have proper thematic links instead of just being a shopping-list of powers they thought might kick ass; and watch out for array filled entirely with attack powers.

Oh, and while it uses the D20 system, it doesn't require any DnD books to play, so 4e does not affect it at all.

On the whole, I would really recommend it. If I had the money, I might go out and buy it myself.


Shadowrun, I can't really comment on. I wasn't that impressed with it when I played it but the GM who ran it was a bit of a DnD-monkey and did run it like a slightly inferior DnD-with-guns: which I hear is precisely the wrong way to play Shadowrun.
I'm sure there'll be a Shadowrun afficionado who can put it better than I can but I understand it's supposed to reward planning and caution, produce an atmosphere of paranoia interspersed with moments of desperation and completely crush anyone who just runs straight in, guns blazing.

EDIT:
Just remembered a couple more points about M&M:
1) It's points based. It's D20. It's superheroes. It is the Unholy Trinity of character creation. Set aside a whole session at least, preferably two.
2) The knockback rules are crazy. When we first came to apply them, we discovered that every character in the party was knocking every enemy they hit flying backwards 25ft. Always. And superpowered enemies would do the same to us. A short fight scene swiftly made Freedom City Bank look like a Swiss cheese, as spandex-clad figures crashed through the brickwork right and left.

[Tsotha-lanti]

2) The knockback rules are crazy. When we first came to apply them, we discovered that every character in the party was knocking every enemy they hit flying backwards 25ft. Always. And superpowered enemies would do the same to us. A short fight scene swiftly made Freedom City Bank look like a Swiss cheese, as spandex-clad figures crashed through the brickwork right and left.

That's just faithful to the genre.

Reminds me of the fight between Invincible and Omni-Man...

[Ecalsneerg]

2) The knockback rules are crazy. When we first came to apply them, we discovered that every character in the party was knocking every enemy they hit flying backwards 25ft. Always. And superpowered enemies would do the same to us. A short fight scene swiftly made Freedom City Bank look like a Swiss cheese, as spandex-clad figures crashed through the brickwork right and left.

Were you doing it right? You only knockback if you stun them, and I've found that stunning doesn't come into play that often.

[Aevylmar]

I'm a Mutants and Masterminds fan, and I like it but with a few reservations. Most notably, it's horribly easy to build an incredibly broken character, and I don't really like how they do super-speed type powers. Still, it's a good system and I would gladly recommend it to any superhero and RPG fans.

Never played Shadowrun, though I hear it's pretty cool.

[Swordguy]

I'm sure there'll be a Shadowrun afficionado who can put it better than I can but I understand it's supposed to reward planning and caution, produce an atmosphere of paranoia interspersed with moments of desperation and completely crush anyone who just runs straight in, guns blazing.

*Waves*

At the moment, Shadowrun exists in 2 different forms.

The first is the cyberpunk of the 1980's. The world is dystopian, corporations rule everything, and you play (essentially) criminals for hire so those corporations can maintain plausible deniability when their competitor's factory explodes. To compete, you almost have to be magical or cybered - but magic is physically dangerous to call upon, and cyberware slowly eats away at your humanity. How much or your soul are you willing to trade to be the best at what you do? The best missions are the ones where you've plannned them so well and everything goes to the plan so never have to pull your guns, and every punk with a revolver is a potentially lethal threat. This is the world of Shadowrun 3e.

The second is the post-cyberpunk world of the late 1990's and early 2000's - heavily influenced by Japanese imports. The atmosphere is a little brighter, and although governments and autonomous corporate entities still wield an oppressive amount of power, there's hope on the horizon if you push hard enough. The biggest change is that cyberware isn't as soul-destroying as people once thought, taking the lessons of Ghost in the Shell into account. Everything has gone wireless, and while it's a little more modern-feeling than wires jacked into somebody's head to access the internet, people can hack the signals and turn ordinary implements into dangerous objects - like that car the target of your assassination attempt is riding inside. This is the world of Shadowrun 4e.

The two use completely different task-resolution systems, naturally, which forces you to choose which one you like more. Third edition is considerably more complex, if it matters, though a great deal cheaper to get into. And, honestly, the divide between fans of the two systems makes the 3e/4e debates look like a town hall meeting.

(If'n it matters, I'm a 3e fan myself.)

[Jerthanis]

Simply put, Mutants and Masterminds 2nd edition is my very favorite RPG system of all. It's modular, elegant, and simple. Character creation is concept-oriented and more balanced than any other point-based character creation system I've seen. It's designed and outfitted for Superheroes, but is easily re-workable into any genre you feel like, if you really wanted to. With the system, fights are relatively fast-paced and cinematic, with plenty of room for cool stunts and improvisation. It's really fun, and if you like Comic book superheroes of any stripe, you'll love Mutants and Masterminds.

Shadowrun I'm less familiar with. I love William Gibson's work, but I don't know why they mixed Tolkien in with the work. Even if it seems mechanically different from D&D, it strikes me as incredibly D&D in the feel of the game. Mysterious Strangers who have dubious loyalties hire a group of extremely dangerous expert killers to perform a dangerous task involving theft, murder, or both. These expert killers carry out the task in various creative and unorthodox ways. The only difference is that Shadowrun has a more definitive setting, and the tasks are generally carried out more like Ocean's Eleven than like bloodthirsty pirates. I've played several Shadowrun games, both 3rd edition and 4th, but I can't say I'm terribly familiar with the mechanics... all I really remember about them are the parts I hated.

Basically, if you like Superheroes and want to run/play a Superheroes game, you absolutely cannot go wrong with Mutants and Masterminds 2nd edition. If you like Cyberpunk and want to run/play a Cyberpunk game... Shadowrun will serve, but you might want to page through GURPS: Cyberpunk, Cyberpunk 2020, or other alternatives before you commit to Shadowrun, and even there, you'll want to decide if you want 3rd edition or 4th.

[Xuincherguixe]

Not familiar with Mutants and Masterminds, but I am with Shadowrun. I kind of grew up with it, and have a number of fond memories.

There's a lot of different takes on it, and there probably isn't any wrong way to play. (Although, putting the characters in a dungeon full of traps and horrible monsters might be close :P)

It also pretty much comes right and tells you to play it however it is you want to. I can even see it working as a Dark Fantasy in the fashion of Berserk (only with lots of Cyborgs and Machineguns), or Cthulhu where you're so much smaller than everything else (it'd take a bit of tweaking, as by default there's an assumption that you're better than most of the people around you).

[Dairun Cates]

Both are solid systems, but M&M definitely pushes the envelope. I'm currently running a campaign in it, and it's a blast.

[Conners]

Thanks very much, guys ! After hearing your opinions, I think both games appeal to me quite well. I'll try to get both (the newer editions, sine they appear to suit me better) but I might only have to settle for one.

I have a few last questions, though:

Mutants and Masterminds
1) How well does the M&M system work for anime-style characters like Inuyasha and such?
2) Can you make characters as powerful as Goku and Vegeta--and if so, up to which saga?
3) Is there anywhere/way I could learn how to avoid players' attempts to make overpowered characters?
4) Is it possible to make all of the Superhero/villain characters (Venom, Spiderman, Superman, the Teen Titans, etcetera.)?
5) Is it balanced in a way that I can make a normal (non-mutant/alien/super-powered)person as strong as a mutant/alien/super-powered person?

Shadowrun
1) How easy/hard is it to put together Shadowrun characters?
2) What's this I hear about troll-sized elves and catgirls being in it O_o...?
3) Is Shadowrun meant to be the twentieth-century of DnD, or are they merely similar?
4) Same as question 3 for M&M.
5) How hard is it to homebrew things like rocket-propelled chainsaws (juist for fun XD)?

[DrowVampyre]

Shadowrun
1) How easy/hard is it to put together Shadowrun characters?
2) What's this I hear about troll-sized elves and catgirls being in it O_o...?
3) Is Shadowrun meant to be the twentieth-century of DnD, or are they merely similar?
4) Same as question 3 for M&M.
5) How hard is it to homebrew things like rocket-propelled chainsaws (juist for fun XD)?

Never played M&M, so I can't comment. Shadowrun, though...I've had some experience with, and I'll give answers for 4e, since that's the newest one (and I really like the GitS feel)

1) Very easy - you get points, you spend points according to a chart, you have your character. This becomes more complex when you throw in the lots of cyberware that is available, but starting characters don't get that much so you get to learn that as you go. It is, however, very easy to build a walking corpse, too, if you focus too heavily on one thing (usually shooting) while sacrificing everything else for it. But they have quite a few prebuilt characters you can take right out of the book, or use as a model for building your own.

2)Troll sized elves? Um...no, not in anything I've seen anyway. Catgirls are possible, but they're not a race - they're peopel who have gotten cosmetic 'ware to make them...well, catgirls.

3) Shadowrun is in no way connected with D&D as a setting. All the metahumans are expressions of UGE (Unexplained Genetic Expression - mass mutations of children into elves and dwarfs) and Goblinization (adults suddenly becoming orks and trolls) or their descendants. They're all human, just...differently human. Magic works far differently. THat elves, orks, etc. and magic are in it is the only connection it has with D&D.

4) Just follow the build guidelines, really. If they concentrate entirely on combat, they'll get screwed six ways from Sunday, because there's no way you can make it in SR with only one skill. Besides, there are hard limits on skills, so even if they go all out, they're not gonna be that much more uber than other trained people. Like the corporate security they'll be facing off against.

5) Eh...you could do it, basically just by reflavoring the assault cannon or a normal rocket launcher. But really, when you have monowire whips and the aforementioned assault cannons and grenade launchers with smartlinks and airburst modules...chainsaw-rockets are just soooo retro.

[Conners]

Never played M&M, so I can't comment. Shadowrun, though...I've had some experience with, and I'll give answers for 4e, since that's the newest one (and I really like the GitS feel)

1) Very easy - you get points, you spend points according to a chart, you have your character. This becomes more complex when you throw in the lots of cyberware that is available, but starting characters don't get that much so you get to learn that as you go. It is, however, very easy to build a walking corpse, too, if you focus too heavily on one thing (usually shooting) while sacrificing everything else for it. But they have quite a few prebuilt characters you can take right out of the book, or use as a model for building your own.

2)Troll sized elves? Um...no, not in anything I've seen anyway. Catgirls are possible, but they're not a race - they're peopel who have gotten cosmetic 'ware to make them...well, catgirls.

3) Shadowrun is in no way connected with D&D as a setting. All the metahumans are expressions of UGE (Unexplained Genetic Expression - mass mutations of children into elves and dwarfs) and Goblinization (adults suddenly becoming orks and trolls) or their descendants. They're all human, just...differently human. Magic works far differently. THat elves, orks, etc. and magic are in it is the only connection it has with D&D.

4) Just follow the build guidelines, really. If they concentrate entirely on combat, they'll get screwed six ways from Sunday, because there's no way you can make it in SR with only one skill. Besides, there are hard limits on skills, so even if they go all out, they're not gonna be that much more uber than other trained people. Like the corporate security they'll be facing off against.

5) Eh...you could do it, basically just by reflavoring the assault cannon or a normal rocket launcher. But really, when you have monowire whips and the aforementioned assault cannons and grenade launchers with smartlinks and airburst modules...chainsaw-rockets are just soooo retro.

Thanks for answering those .


Another question I have, though: WHICH BOOKS DO I GET OF MnM AND Shadowrun !?!? I looked them up on the internet, and I got quite a stream of available books... At the moment, I only want to Bear Necessities, by the way (if there is a supplement book which makes everything 500% better, consider it a necessity).

[Attilargh]

Bear necessities? You probably want this, then.

For serious-like now, the core books for fourth edition Shadowrun and second edition M&M should be enough.

Also, the answer to pretty much all of the M&M questions is "yes". You can do pretty well anything with it. The book itself has decent tips on avoiding cheese.

[Conners]

Bear necessities? You probably want this, then.

For serious-like now, the core books for fourth edition Shadowrun and second edition M&M should be enough.

Also, the answer to pretty much all of the M&M questions is "yes". You can do pretty well anything with it. The book itself has decent tips on avoiding cheese.

Note that the bear necessities part was a direct reference to the song from the Jungle Book movie (the last movie of Walt Disney) .

Thanks for that, I'll see about getting it (I might do a anime-style campaign when I get good at it, or maybe even a DBZ campaign).

[PnP Fan]

Mutants and Masterminds
1) How well does the M&M system work for anime-style characters like Inuyasha and such?
2) Can you make characters as powerful as Goku and Vegeta--and if so, up to which saga?
3) Is there anywhere/way I could learn how to avoid players' attempts to make overpowered characters?
4) Is it possible to make all of the Superhero/villain characters (Venom, Spiderman, Superman, the Teen Titans, etcetera.)?
5) Is it balanced in a way that I can make a normal (non-mutant/alien/super-powered)person as strong as a mutant/alien/super-powered person?

Shadowrun
1) How easy/hard is it to put together Shadowrun characters?
2) What's this I hear about troll-sized elves and catgirls being in it O_o...?
3) Is Shadowrun meant to be the twentieth-century of DnD, or are they merely similar?
4) Same as question 3 for M&M.
5) How hard is it to homebrew things like rocket-propelled chainsaws (juist for fun XD)?

MnM:
Okay, this is probably my favorite superhero system ever. Well balanced, as long as you stay away from the grey boxes in the powers section. Read them, and don't allow anyone to emulate them. As for your questions:
1. Powers are effect based. Everything else is special effects, and fluff. So characters like Inuyasha and Wolverine, on paper, wind up looking fairly similar (I'm thinking early Inuyasha before he really started tapping into his powers). They both have tracking abilities, claw attacks, and heal quickly. From there, it's all in how you play it.
2. Goku? Vegeta? no idea. I think those are DBZ characters? I'm not sure. I know you can stat up the current version of Superman as a fairly high level character, if that gives you a benchmark.
3. Most of the balance problems are limited by the basic mechanics of the game. For the loopholes that superpowers inevitably incur, read the aforementioned grey boxes, they'll tell you what things to stop. Are there other builds that break the game? yes, but the book gives you a good idea of what to look for. Also talk to the players before hand about game breaking characters.
4. Pretty much. The game was designed with those characters in mind, and powers are highly customizeable.
5. yes. We've had a number of Captain America knock offs in our games, and they do quite well. There's a feat that allows you to trade off attack bonus for damage bonus, so the super-norms wind up buying high attack bonuses with low damage bonuses (via strength), and then trading off when there's a bbeg that's really tough. there's also lots of interaction skills that allow you to debuff a villain with a few skill rolls, to improve your chances of hitting. Works very well.

Shadowrun: haven't played since 3rd ed, but I'll answer what I can.
1, 2: no idea.
3. No, but SR draws from a lot of the same mythology that D&D draws from, so of course they share a lot of things, like Elves and Trolls.
4. I think there are enough rules lawyers, min-maxers, and build-experts here, that you could put up a post on this forum asking about traps in SR, and get good information.
5. Pen + Paper + Reason + Inspiration = Homebrew I don't really have a good answer.

[Green Bean]

I have a few last questions, though:

Mutants and Masterminds
1) How well does the M&M system work for anime-style characters like Inuyasha and such?
2) Can you make characters as powerful as Goku and Vegeta--and if so, up to which saga?
3) Is there anywhere/way I could learn how to avoid players' attempts to make overpowered characters?
4) Is it possible to make all of the Superhero/villain characters (Venom, Spiderman, Superman, the Teen Titans, etcetera.)?
5) Is it balanced in a way that I can make a normal (non-mutant/alien/super-powered)person as strong as a mutant/alien/super-powered person?

1) M&M is ideal for Inu-Yasha or Naruto type anime; both superhero comics and fighting anime share very similar genre conventions.

2) Absolutely. Admittedly, for the truly "over 9000" fights, you'll need to raise the overall power level of your game (the equivalent of starting a DnD game at level 15 instead of level 8, for example), but statting up "flying, superstrong guy with energy blasts" is a piece of cake.

3) There are a few powers included for the sake of completeness, such as Duplication or Transform, that can slip into brokenness, but he Core book will list the powers that can venture into overpowered territory.

4) Absolutely. In fact, if you stop by the M&M official forums (The Atomic Think Tank), there are entire subforums dedicated to statting out famous fictional characters.

5) Not necessarily as strong, but certainly as capable. Naturally, there are situations where one archetype is better than the other (i.e. the "normal" guy will have a hard time dealing with super-tough foes, but will go through hordes of weaker enemies like a knife through butter.

[Winterwind]

I'm only familiar with the third edition of ShadowRun, and while it's more heavy on mechanics and rules than I usually prefer (though still less so than D&D, or so I hear), I can most definitely recommend it. It takes the grim and gritty cyberpunk fantasies in the vein of Gibson's tales au Neuromancer, adds a dose of magic, and fascinatingly enough manages to mix them just fine.

Shadowrun1) How easy/hard is it to put together Shadowrun characters?

The system offers a large amount of flexibility and customizability, especially cyberware-using characters have a lot of options open to them. The mechanics for doing so are very simple though; if one takes some time to create a character it's going to be because of the many possibilities, not because one cannot figure out how the system works.

2) What's this I hear about troll-sized elves and catgirls being in it O_o...?

Either some plastic chirurgy (befitting a cyberpunk world - there are all kinds of freaks out there in the Sprawl...), or a metahuman variant (sounds kinda like a gross misrepresentation of Wakyambi and Night Ones respectively to me), which are subtypes of the usual races as introduced in purely optional supplemental books as an attempt to cover the respective mythologies of other cultures (Wakyambi, for example, being a reclusive African variant of elves), and not a part of your average ShadowRun round.

3) Is Shadowrun meant to be the twentieth-century of DnD, or are they merely similar?

Neither. It's not related with any D&D world, it's not released by the same company (or has ever been), and it is not similar. The description of the races, the way magic works, the role characters play within the world, the gameplay - not only in the mechanics' details, but also in how a typical mission looks like, or how big the lethality is - are all completely different.
Incidentally, it's not 20th century either. It is a cyberpunk world - corporations being everything while trampling the individual with both feet, people losing theirselves to strange new forms of entertainment, hedonism blossoming amongst the higher classes, while the streets erupt in violence and poverty.

4) Same as question 3 for M&M.

I can't really answer this one, since I haven't had any players who actively tried to break the system, but I'll put it this way - it's hardly possible for a single character to fulfill every role at once. Team work is the key. And no matter how min-maxed ShadowRun characters end up, they remain mortals. And they'd better be aware of their own mortality, too, lest they end up drifting in the gutter or grinded to Soylent Green.

5) How hard is it to homebrew things like rocket-propelled chainsaws (juist for fun XD)?

See DrowVampyre's answer to this one.

Another question I have, though: WHICH BOOKS DO I GET OF MnM AND Shadowrun !?!? I looked them up on the internet, and I got quite a stream of available books... At the moment, I only want to Bear Necessities, by the way (if there is a supplement book which makes everything 500% better, consider it a necessity).

Again, I can only speak about the 3rd edition, but the core rulebook is perfectly enough to play the game (okay, so if somebody wanted to play a rigger the Rigger 3 might be rather useful - it's the one archetype that is offered somewhat less options in the core book alone - but even that would work). There are a few books that give a lot of nice additional options to the players, but not necessary in the least.

[Destro_Yersul]

What they said. I'm running my game using only the Shadowrun 4th core book. These guys apparently decided they didn't want people to need to buy 3+ books just to play the game, so they put plenty of everything in just the one.

Even riggers. There's a decent number of options for them, and one of the pre-built sample characters is a rigger.

[DeathQuaker]

Completely randomly, I was buying M&M in the Barnes and Noble the other day, and the gal at the checkout counter asked me what I thought of it (I like it so far, but I'm just learning it). When I asked her what systems they'd been playing lately, she mentioned Shadowrun 4 and her group thought it wasn't very good (her example was, "Don't you think a cyberpunk game should have rules for how to deal with the Internet)?

But obviously folks here like it; just passing that tidbit along.

[Conners]

Hey, I had an interesting idea: Combining Shadowrun and Mutants and Masterminds . The setting will be homebrewed (as though I'd have a campaign I'm running any other way) in a setting similar to SR only with Superbeings.

My first campaign in such a setting, would be that the players are henchmen for a powerful Super Villain, and go around doing his minor chores for a while. Then, they are hit by nuclear deathrays (turning them into Dead-Glowing-Skeleton-Who's-Nuclear), or a god comes down as say, "Hey nubz, im totly gonna give you uberpwer n stuff lols!" (they then become the Guardians of "Die nubletz! all ur base belong to uz lols!"), or they find out that they were bitten by a radioactive screwdriver (thus becoming Radioactive-Tool-Shed-team!), or something like that (as you can guess, I generally hold the explanation for how the heroes get their powers in low regard).

What do you think?

[Oslecamo]

So, let me see if I got this right about M&M from what people posted here:

1-It allows you to build any kind of character, as long as it isn't something really powerfull.

2-It's really balanced, as long as the DM keeps an eye for broken combinations and the players don't try to cheese the rules.

Ok, what did I miss here?

[Winterwind]

What do you think?

Sounds potentially interesting, I doubt it would preserve much of ShadowRun's feeling though. Being a superhero is, kinda, the exact opposite of "You are a punk fighting for sheer survival in the urban jungle, and the world is a s***ty place controlled by the corps, where any random scum with a revolver could reduce you to a sack of organs to be sold at the next street doc, chum".

[Project_Mayhem]

1-It allows you to build any kind of character, as long as it isn't something really powerfull.

Nah, it's point based, innit. Basically it alows you to build any kind of character, including something really powerful. However, the DM sets the power level and that sets the points you can send.

Ie. power level 8-10 is the basic assumption, about average superhero level. 1-2 is you or me. Around 5-6 is badass normals who arent in Cap' or Batmanman league, or low powered supers, like most of the Heroes cast. 15-16 is Superman or Hulk. 20 is, I don't know, Galactus, or Chuck Norris or something.

Thats not exactly the case, as you can interpret characters as more or less powerful, but it should be about right.

[DrowVampyre]

Completely randomly, I was buying M&M in the Barnes and Noble the other day, and the gal at the checkout counter asked me what I thought of it (I like it so far, but I'm just learning it). When I asked her what systems they'd been playing lately, she mentioned Shadowrun 4 and her group thought it wasn't very good (her example was, "Don't you think a cyberpunk game should have rules for how to deal with the Internet)?

But obviously folks here like it; just passing that tidbit along.

There...are rules for it dealing with the 'net. A whole chapter, in fact. >_> <_< 35 pages dedicated exclusively to the Matrix (which is the 'net of Shadowrun). And then a whole sourcebook expanding on it. So...yeah, I'd say they have that particular part of the game covered pretty well.

[Oslecamo]

Around 5-6 is badass normals who arent in Cap' or Batmanman league, or low powered supers,

Isn't Cap overbursting with body enanching drugs?

Anyway thanks for the rules clearing.