My Problem Players - Please help.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Yup, another one of those threads.

So, I've been playing D&D now for a few years, and my first group was great. Polite, respectful, good amount of RP. Awesome. And I still have that group going, only I have started another group with some more friends of mine. Its been going on for a few months now, the DM chairs have alternated, and I am now back in the seat. I have dealt (or rather, have tried to ignore) with the problem players for all this time, but am seriously considering just leaving the group, but would rather go for an enjoyable game than no-game at all (fix the problem rather than run from it). I'll just refer to the problem players as player's A, B, and C. Also note that I'm not having trouble with everyone, as I have been able to get a couple players from my old group in, to help influance an enjoyable game.

Player A: Player A is a total distraction at all times. If it isnt his turn in combat, hes probally on my computer doing whatever, or something else entirely. He slows the game down constantly by doing this. I know the obvious awnser would be to shut down my computer during sessions, but I sometimes like to play some music during games through it. And even if it was off, I'm sure he would just turn it on anyway. I'm not a very confrontational person. Also, another problem with Player A is that he can never seem to keep intrest with a character for long. He has already essentially killed himself TWICE within the past 5 sessions so he could role up another character.

Player B: Player B doesn't seem to understand how fantasy works. He has a hard time imagining things he hasn't seen in a video game or on TV, and confronts me when something doesnt seem 'realistic'. For example, I have heard his negative comments when I introduced things like air-boats which fly using enchanced light wood, technology run using elemental powers, strange purple mist with zombifys the dead, etc. He is also very picky about how I run the story. I have heard him say SEVERAL times "Oh yeah, thats sooo original." He has even commented several times on how I create some creatures and their abilities (in a 4E game even!) saying things such as "Oh great, another monster the DM made up, this will be fair!" (even though not one person has died yet, unless he was Player A). He also has a tendancy to continue to bring my game down by essentially saying indirectly that his game (he was the DM before me) was so much more original than mine. For example, when I looked up a trap in the DM's guide, he commented with "I never used traps from the DM's guide in my game, cause if you do that instead of making one up, all your doing is no longer being creative." I was like WTF! His game was cliche if I ever knew one, and all he did was take base monsters from the MM. He never even stated out an NPC! ARGGGG Needless to say, player B is the one I want to punch the most.

Player C: Player C is very troublesome. He is loud, obnoxious, and agrees with everything Player B says. He is the one who tends to shout things like "That is so BS!" or "Thats some DM crap right there!". Also, he is SO loud, that whenever I even try to stand up for my game, all he does is basically repeat what he said over and over again, drowning out my voice. And even if I make an intelligent argument, all he says is "No nope, your wrong, I'm right." I am reminded of a certain family guy skit.

I mostly posted this to just get all of this off my chest and in writing, but would greatly appreciate any advice you guys might have.

[Dairun Cates]

From the sounds of it, your players aren't fantasy type players. Usually this kind of boredom and rebellion is a dissatisfaction with the system and setting itself. Maybe you should try a different system for a while and see how it goes. Have trouble finding out what they're interested in? Try running a game of Risus. It's free and it's oddly telling about your player's tastes.

Either way, the point is that if the players are bored, it's your job to mix things up and change the direction of the plot. Some of my best campaigns started out horrible. For instance, I started a parody pokemon campaign with my group. It got boring. So, I added a conspiracy theory that involved extra-dimensional travel, time travel, and the fate of the very universe. The only way to save the universe? Gain all 8 Gym badges and win the league championships (The winner's trophy was a key to summoning a Dark God that had created the pokemon dimension as a nexus for all realties). After that point, it was a hoot.

[arguskos]

My friend, I feel your pain. So much. I don't have too much advice (I've actually been soliciting it myself around here, for similar, but not totally related issues), but I'd advise you to check out the thread I made about it, just to see if it helps any.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85627

Hope this helps some. Also, beatings and fire. Just saying.

-argus

[MartinHarper]

Player A: Player A is a total distraction at all times. If it isnt his turn in combat, hes probally on my computer doing whatever.

Password protected screensaver. Allows music to be played. Passive aggressively stops player A using PC.

[BRC]

I reccomend blunt force trauma.


Actually, I recommend direct confrontation out of game, try to tell them they are ruining the game for everybody else.

[Frosty]

Player B and C should not be your friends. Ditch them.

[Jade_Tarem]

Stop being nonconfrontational with player A. Tell him that you need your computer for DM-related things (technically true, even if you never do anything with it). Challenge him to see if he can work up a lasting character that he really, really likes and then roleplay it to its fullest potential. If he agrees, he may cycle through characters even faster at first, but as long as he's really trying he'll eventually find something and stick with it. Player A can be saved.

For B and C, you need to invoke the DM class ability Summon Boot. Sorry, but if they want extremely easy to visualize gameplay and absolutely perfect game balance they need to be playing Halo, Counterstrike, or some other twitch run-and-gun game, not DnD. They'll fit in well with the majority of the other people who play online. C in particular needs a good shot to the nads and a reminder that he is never inherently correct, delivered at the same time. Players B and C cannot be salvaged.

[ColonelFuster]

Player A: "Aidan, would you like to run this NPC battle? There's a barbarian and a sorcerer with these spells. Maybe you could just run one of them?"
Player B: "Bob, I have my own style of DMing." "Bob, I am DMing right now." "Bob, why would you say that?" "Be that as it may, that's what's happening."
Player C: "Guys, please vote, do think this is bogus? No, Charles, don't talk, let's just raise or hands. Yes, this is bogus, raise your hands. Okay, and for the no it's not votes.... Alright, Charles? You're messing with other people's enjoyment of the game. Let's get back on track."

Don't argue with people. If you get defensive, they win. If they stray away from the topic, don't listen. If all else fails, ask for the rest of the group's opinion.

DM: "Suddenly, the ground quakes and small green beetles start swarming out, exuding a noxious stench. Everyone make fortitude saves."
Bob: "Great. THIS is gonna be fair. What's the DC? 30?"
DM: "What are your guy's rolls?"
(Bob: did he just ignore me?)
They all pass, except players A and C.
Aidan: *Sighs* I die, right? If we're going to go underground, I should have a dwarf anyways.
DM: No, you just get sick to the point of inaction for a few rounds. You, too, Charles. No standard actions for 3 rounds.
Charles: ARE YOU JOKING??? NO!
Bob: Poisons don't work that way! Neither do swarms.
Charles: YEAH! I'M GONNA GO ANYWAYS!
Bob: You should, this is all jsut a rip-off of The Mummy, anyways.
Other players start to roll their eyes and become disinterested until-
DM (Loudly over the argument): The beetles suddenly start to swarm around Eric, dealing 4 damage.

[Ralfarius]

I'm leaning towards the suggestion presented by Dairun Cates, in that maybe the genre just isn't their cup of tea and it's time to give something else a whirl.

But seriously, what you've presented about B and C is straight-up a personality cohesion disconnect. Like, I'm not gonna say that their way is totally wrong, and they're a pair of annoying jackasses not worth playing with, or even really hanging around for that matter... But there could just be a fundamental incompatibility in your tastes/personalities to make a successful game possible.

You may need to introduce a 4th, possibly 5th player to the group to try and balance things out. If a group is small, and two or more members tend to feed off each other, then it's harder to rein them in because there's no one else to provide a more constructive influence. If you can get two people, possibly from your old group, into this one, the more enjoyable aspects of their personalities and playstyle may rub off on the disruptive players.

Either that, or you should cut and run. Often times, no game is better than utter frustration.

[mikeejimbo]

Or you could be a player for a while. No, not to take out your revenge on them when they're DMing, that's passive-aggressive and not very nice. But it would be relaxing not to have to deal with it.

You can gather them all and say "Guys, I'm getting kind of burnt out on DMing. Does anyone else want to run something?" It's not a lie, and it doesn't directly blame them.

[snoopy13a]

Player A can probably be brought around as he isn't really a jerk. Just turn off your computer.

If B and C can be kicked out of the group without any other reprecussions, I'd do it. They don't really sound like pleasant people to hang out with. If they can't be kicked out of the group (e.g. they are good friends with the nice players), I'd seriously consider quitting. RPing is supposed to fun and if you're not having fun you should spend your free time doing something else.

[Crow]

Players A, B, and C: "Are you guys my friends, or just some *******s who come over to waste my time? If you don't want to play this game, feel free to leave. Otherwise, pay attention when I am trying to describe something to you in game and keep your mouth shut until I have finished talking. If you have questions, feel free to ask them. If you have unconstructive criticism, keep it to your goddamn self. If you have constructive criticism or pointers, please just wait until the end of the session and I will be more than happy to hear them. If you can't handle using some common ****ing courtesy, get the hell out of my house and go on with your sad virginal lives somewhere else."

[Swordguy]

Players A, B, and C: "Are you guys my friends, or just some *******s who come over to waste my time? If you don't want to play this game, feel free to leave. Otherwise, pay attention when I am trying to describe something to you in game and keep your mouth shut until I have finished talking. If you have questions, feel free to ask them. If you have unconstructive criticism, keep it to your goddamn self. If you have constructive criticism or pointers, please just wait until the end of the session and I will be more than happy to hear them. If you can't handle using some common ****ing courtesy, get the hell out of my house and go on with your sad virginal lives somewhere else."

[Viruzzo]

Stop being nonconfrontational with player A.

Players B and C cannot be salvaged.

Jade Tarem expressed perfectly my opinion. You and the others play to have fun, and if those problem players are not having fun with you you should not play together.

BTW, I have never seen someone (either as a player or as DM) do something like turn away from the game and play with computer/console, but we would have definitely beaten the stupidity out of them.

[Myatar_Panwar]

I have indeed been considering adopting a new system. Player B was trying to convince us to play a WW2 D&D game, thus I kind of got the impression that he would perfer something else.

As for kicking B and C.... damn I want to. The more I think about it, the more I do wonder why I hang out with them. Only they are friends with one of my other players, kind of. Plus, still being in school, I would have to deal with the awkward meetings that are sure to come. If they continue to act like total babies after I talk to them about it (which I will be doing this saturday), then I guess I will have to find whatever courage I've got stored away to give them the boot.

[shadow_archmagi]

Kick B and C. Preferably with a pointy shoe. Covered in poison.

A can be salvaged without much trouble, just give him more to do.

[Tsadrin]

Player A) Pull the plug and hide the cord. Find a CD player for your music. When the character dies the new character must be started at level 1.

Players B & C) Don't invite them back. Their not acting like friends. I don't know about anyone else but I never game with anyone but friends.

[shadow_archmagi]

Player A) Pull the plug and hide the cord. Find a CD player for your music. When the character dies the new character must be started at level 1.

I don't see anything wrong with constantly shifting characters. Eventually he'll settle down.

[Myatar_Panwar]

I don't see anything wrong with constantly shifting characters. Eventually he'll settle down.

Thats some great optimism when considering this specific player, as he generally acts like this in every game I have ever run with him, for the full duration. Its not just some newbie uncertainty, but something more. I have been assuming that he has been taking on aspects of characters he is currently interested in (ie: Maybe he just saw Rambo and now all he can think about is huge guys with an unnatural bad-ass presence who can rip people apart with their bare hands).

Also, I would impose a penalty on deaths if I was sure that players B and C wouldent have a "DM BS!" hissy fit.

Edit: My group certainly has some horrible anti-synergy doesnt it...

[Tengu_temp]

Player A: Set up {Scrubbed} as a background for your computer. Disconnect the keyboard and connect it to high voltage. Tell him he has to buy everyone pizza each time he makes a new character.

Player B: D4 up the nose. While he's stunned, shove a beehive down his pants.

Player C: Immediately after dealing with B, turn towards him and say "are you still going to follow him?" Rub your hands together and laugh maniacally.

[xPANCAKEx]

player a - just a quiet word away from the group. Grow a pair and talk to them

B - you need to change up your story telling/setting, see how they respond. Try researching new ideas for a campaign, broaden your horizons

C - a quiet word, once again, and ask them, in 20 words or less, what they would like to see improved in the campaign

[shadow_archmagi]

he generally acts like this in every game I have ever run with him, for the full duration.

Also, I would impose a penalty on deaths if I was sure that players B and C wouldent have a "DM BS!" hissy fit.

Edit: My group certainly has some horrible anti-synergy doesnt it...

Well, then try to find a way that constant suicides can be useful. Or impose a penalty.

You don't have to consider B and C, because they arn't going to be around any more. If necessary, hire Mr. Teatime to deal with them.

[Nebo_]

B - you need to change up your story telling/setting, see how they respond. Try researching new ideas for a campaign, broaden your horizons

That's ridiculous. Player B is clearly a 'tard. The OP doesn't need to change anything except his players.

What you really need to do is talk to each player individually and punch them in the throat as hard as you can. Then tell them to stop acting like immature 'tards.

[valadil]

B pisses me off already. He complains when you make up new monsters and then complains when your traps come from the book. I don't know what to do about him. See if you can reconcile outside of game?

C sounds like B's lackey. I think if B behaved better C would be less problematic.

As for A, I agree with locking your computer. Maybe you could ask A what sort of entertainment he needs so he won't run off? Explain that it distracts you as DM and it's making the game worse.

[Tsotha-lanti]

So why do these people show up to play, anyway? Are you forcing them with a gun to their head? (Which you like melt into slag when you get them inside, and then inertia keeps them there, or something.) It's the only explanation for why people so uninterested in the game would show up.

[Leewei]

Player A: Set up {scrubbed} as a background for your computer. Disconnect the keyboard and connect it to high voltage. Tell him he has to buy everyone pizza each time he makes a new character.

Ze goggles! Zey do nossink!

In the way of chiming in with others, with B and C behaving as they do, is it possible A is just trying to escape from them?

[Edea]

Player A: Set up {scrubbed} as a background for your computer.

"What has been seen cannot be unseen ."

There's far worse than {scrubbed}, though. I'm not sure it's a great idea to point them out HERE, but they're well known and easy to find.

[Vexxation]

"What has been seen cannot be unseen ."

There's far worse than {scrubbed}, though. I'm not sure it's a great idea to point them out HERE, but they're well known and easy to find.

*cough tubgirl cough*
Nobody Google that. It would be a very poor choice.
I was just suggesting it in case the OP already saw the horror.

[Jade_Tarem]

C sounds like B's lackey. I think if B behaved better C would be less problematic.

The guy whose argument consists of "NO IM RITE UR RONG LALALALALA" is no man's lackey, and everyone's headache - it's only his lack of imagination that has him following in B's footsteps. I'll be honest, from the descriptions given C sounds like the worse of the two to me. I agree with most everything else you said, though.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Player A: Set up {Scrubbed} as a background for your computer.

Wow, I hadn't heard of {Scrubbed}before, thus I googled it, luckily a wikipedia article showed up first with a description instead of the image. Eww!