Looking for a good seed spell system

[Prophaniti]

I decided to use a seed spell system, a la epic magic in D&D3.5, for Innate casters in my setting, and my group likes the idea. Basically, I want Innate casters to make up their spells, instead of creating a spell list for them, reflecting the fact that they channel magic through inborn gift and force of will, so their spells are quantified only by their effects in-universe. A seed system struck me as the best way to do this. Unfortunately, after perusing said epic spell rules, it is far more complicated than what I had in mind. Can anyone point me to a simpler seed system, that I might throw it in a blender with whatever else I like and make a My World smoothie?

[weishan]

Elements of magic isn't quite what you're looking for (IE not a seed system like the ELH's), but it allows flexible creation of spells.

[Prophaniti]

Sorry, that name's not ringing any bells, where would I find that?

[weishan]

It's an EN publishing book. (So it's at Drivethru RPG). Essentialy, you create spells flexibly by using points to add new effects, range, damage, etc. It also provides a more flexible casting class who can to some degree create their own spells spontaneosly (with quite well-balance limits). Also, it's cheap

[Starsinger]

I recall Iron Heroes using such a system, or atleast something similar.

[weishan]

I was under the impression it used Vancian casting, but I'm uncertain.

[Triaxx]

It's not really hard to generate one of your own. Take a basic spell: Magic Missile.

Damage 1d4+1 (1 point for a d4, 2 for a d6, 3 for a d8, 4 for a d10, 5 for a d12, and 8 for a d20 (the +1 is associated with force damage))
Range: Medium (2 points, 1 point for short, none for touch, 3 for long)
Duration: Instantaneous (Free, 1 point for every round of effect, 2 points for every minute, 6 points for every hour.)
Saving throw:None (Depends, harder the throw, the more points. A spell without a saving throw is very expensive.)
Spell Resistance:Yes (Free for yes, variable for no, depending on spell.)

The additional effect of increasing missiles has to be bought, so while this would add up to an 11, adding another missile and thus another d4 would increase it to 12. Or strengthening the single missile to a d6 would make it a 12.

Give them perhaps 5 points a level to work with, starting at 5 + casting stat bonus. You'd have to work out for spells similar to fireball, or sunfire. Or haste.

These wouldn't be permanently lost, but for a week's work, at level 1, you'd create the spell, and after another week, the points would be back. Obviously, a prefab spell, such as Magic Missile could be learned from a scroll without spending points, or perhaps for a partial expenditure.

[endoperez]

Ars Magica is a world/system based around epic magic, pretty much. Ars Magica 4th edition rules (nothing to do with D&D) are free, or at least were at some point. You might want to check them out for ideas if for nothing else.


The premise is basically that you create, destroy, control, change or sense fire or air or animals or minds or whatever. All verbs (5) and nouns (8 or so) are different skills, and to cast spells you use your total in the necessary paths. There is no mana, but spellcasting will eventually tire you down, giving penalties.
There is a system for adjusting the difficulty based on targets (an object to person to group to room), durations (instant, concentration, hour, until sunset/sunrise etc) and such, and example spells for the different combinations.

You might also adopt a system similar to spell formulas of Ars Magica, where it's easier to follow researched formulas (e.g. firebolt-style combat spells), but less-used effects are still viable (e.g. moving rocks in a river to make stepping stones).

[Guyr Adamantine]

Look for a book called True Sorcery. Its awesome.

[Naihal]

Or you could try this homebrew, which seems like it would fit your campaign if you just reflavor it a bit.

[Prophaniti]

Thanks all. I remember reading the one Naihal linked, and it looks like it will work perfectly, with a fair bit of retooling. I'll check out the others too, and rip what ideas I need. Thanks again.

[Zeta Kai]

Here are some tables to help you along. They are part of an attempt to de-epic epic spells, & are disturbingly similar to Triaxx's thoughts on magic theory. None of these are playtested, so the balance is dubious, but it's a start. Enjoy.

Spell Factor System
{table=head]DC|School of Magic
+0|Abjuration
+0|Conjuration
+0|Divination
+0|Enchantment
+0|Evocation
+0|Illusion
+0|Necromancy
+0|Transmutation
+5|Universal[/table]

{table=head]DC|Components
-2|Verbal
-2|Somatic
-5|Material
-2|Focus
-5|Divine Focus
-1|100XP Cost[/table]

{table=head]DC|Casting Time
+0|1 minute
+1|1 full-round action
+2|1 standard action
+5|1 swift action
+7|1 immediate action
+10|1 free action[/table]

{table=head]DC|Range
+0|Personal: the spell affects only you
+2|Touch: you must touch a creature or object to affect it
+5|Close: 25’ + 5’ every 2 caster levels
+10|Medium: 100’ + 10’ per caster level
+15|Long: 400’ + 40’ per caster level
+20|Unlimited: reaches anywhere on the same plane[/table]

{table=head]DC|Aim
+0|Target: yourself
+2|Target: willing
+5|Target: unwilling
+5|Line of Effect
+5|Effect: ray
+10|Effect: spread
+10|Area: burst/emanation/spread
+10|Area: cone/cylinder/line/sphere
+10|Shapeable[/table]

{table=head]DC|Duration
+0|Instantaneous
+0|Discharge
+2|Duration: 1 period
+2|Dismissible
+5|Duration: 1 minute
+10|Concentration
+15|Duration: 1 hour
+20|Permanent[/table]

{table=head]DC|Saving Throw
+0|Negates
+0|Disbelief
+0|Harmless
+5|Partial
+5|Half
+10|None[/table]

{table=head]DC|Spell Resistance
+0|Yes
+10|No[/table]

{table=head]DC|Damage
+2|+1d4
+3|+1d6
+4|+1d8
+5|+1d10
+6|+1d12
+10|+1d20
+20|+1d%[/table]

{table=head]DC|Damage Type
+2|Normal: bludgeoning/piercing/slashing
+5|Energy: acid/cold/electricity/fire/sonic
+7|Energy: force
+10|Untyped[/table]