Alternate Warlocks (3.5)

[cliffiepizza]

Does anyone know of any alternate types of warlocks, with different flavor or interesting prestige classes for warlocks that takes them in a different direction. i really like the warlock class but ive been using them a lot in my campaign and i want to switch it up.

[Covered In Bees]

The Dragonfire Adept in Dragon Magic.

[monty]

You can always homebrew your own. Make up some invocations and give it different class features.

[Starbuck_II]

Does anyone know of any alternate types of warlocks, with different flavor or interesting prestige classes for warlocks that takes them in a different direction. i really like the warlock class but ive been using them a lot in my campaign and i want to switch it up.

Complete Mage has the "holy" Warlock and the Infernal one as Prestige classes.

[kamikasei]

What sort of changes in flavour do you have in mind? Remember something that seems to be often overlooked, that the warlock as presented has a lot of options for flavour. You can gain your powers from any source along the Chaotic or Evil sides of the alignment spectrum, via means ranging from inheritance, pacts, inheritance of pacts ("my great-grandfather made a deal with the devils, and now I must use the accursed power passed down within my family to battle them..."), etc. You don't have to be a Chaotic Evil half-demon who sold his soul to Graz'zt. Patrons could include fey, eladrin, slaad, demons, daemons, devils, and probably others more obscure.

As far as prestige classes and the like, Complete Mage is the big source of support for warlocks since their release and includes a few dual-advancement classes for warlock/arcane caster, warlock/divine caster, and warlock/monk. Consider a Warlock/Cleric/Eldritch Disciple feytouched elf who worships nature and heals people with blasts of rainbow light.

[The Demented One]

Does anyone know of any alternate types of warlocks, with different flavor or interesting prestige classes for warlocks that takes them in a different direction. i really like the warlock class but ive been using them a lot in my campaign and i want to switch it up.

I could homebrew up some alternately-themed invocation users. What'd you be looking for?

[cliffiepizza]

I could homebrew up some alternately-themed invocation users. What'd you be looking for?

right now im mainly looking for like element themed warlocks, like earth, water, fire, ice. or maybe feyish foresty themed, just something cool and different

[kamikasei]

right now im mainly looking for like element themed warlocks, like earth, water, fire, ice. or maybe feyish foresty themed, just something cool and different

You can accomplish some of this with simple invocation selection. Choose blast essences that add the desired element, or fey- or nature-themed invocations like summon swarm, beguiling influence, etc.

[The Demented One]

right now im mainly looking for like element themed warlocks, like earth, water, fire, ice. or maybe feyish foresty themed, just something cool and different

I could do some more element-y ones. Would you want them to just be straight elemental casters, or maybe have a more oriental flavor, to complement the wu jen and shujenja?

[cliffiepizza]

I could do some more element-y ones. Would you want them to just be straight elemental casters, or maybe have a more oriental flavor, to complement the wu jen and shujenja?

not oriental flavor, i was thinking more like individual elements, like an ice warlock, rock warlock, etc

[The Demented One]

not oriental flavor, i was thinking more like individual elements, like an ice warlock, rock warlock, etc

Okay, can do.

[GryffonDurime]

Mmm...an elemental warlock who receives his power from the hosts of the Djinn would be nifty. Lots of Chaos and Evil to draw on there!

I've always loved the Warlock, and I've always been a big proponent of reflavoring it, but sometimes it would just be nice to have some interesting mechanical alternatives to support that fluff. There's a reason we play Dungeons and Dragons and don't just do it freeform, ne?

Interesting Warlock Angles I've always wanted to try and tackle:

• Shiftlock - What would a Warlock look like with a more decided Shapeshifter bent? PHBII has already provided options for using this at-will for Druids, and Complete Mage includes a couple transformative Invocations.
• Illusionist - What kind of fun/balance could be struck with a flexible, at-will Illusionist? This one seems hard because it straddles useless and broken like a tourist on the stateline.
• Alchemist/Transmuationist - I saw someone who once created an Invocation-user that had a golem in lieu of an Eldritch Blast, and battlefield-control invocations. Very interesting.
• Abjurer Warlock - Mmm, what if the Warlock was all about defense rather than offense? I'm thinking someone with a Sue Storm-esque Forcefield instead of a Blast. Lots of Walls and shapes.
• Incarnum Warlock - Some kind of support for "Investable" Invocations and the like, possibly even allowing changing your Invocations as soulmelds.

[kamikasei]

[*]Shiftlock - What would a Warlock look like with a more decided Shapeshifter bent? PHBII has already provided options for using this at-will for Druids, and Complete Mage includes a couple transformative Invocations.

That's an interesting thought. Perhaps you could make the shapeshift-variant druid forms into individual invocations gainable at the appropriate levels?

[GryffonDurime]

That's an interesting thought. Perhaps you could make the shapeshift-variant druid forms into individual invocations gainable at the appropriate levels?

I was imagining it more as an Eldritch-Blast type feature: slowly improves, not as good as a druid's, but lots of new Invocations to add options. Like a shrinking invocation...or maybe not.

And for that matter, it could even include some non-beastly shapeshifting goodness: demons or fey, or even wonderful, fantastic things like Couatls. Such forms need not provide all the bonuses the actual monsters have, but rather a more focused suite of thematic abilities.

[kamikasei]

I was imagining it more as an Eldritch-Blast type feature: slowly improves, not as good as a druid's, but lots of new Invocations to add options. Like a shrinking invocation...or maybe not.

And for that matter, it could even include some non-beastly shapeshifting goodness: demons or fey, or even wonderful, fantastic things like Couatls. Such forms need not provide all the bonuses the actual monsters have, but rather a more focused suite of thematic abilities.

Yes, that makes good sense. If you say the standard 'lock has two main aspects, straight damage through eldritch blast, and buffs, debuffs and utility via invocations... then you could have this shiftlock use shapeshifting to make melee his main attack option, and give it invocations focused on buffing its shifted form.

Perhaps you could work out something like the attribute-purchase system for augmenting astral construct? I think that's what I'm thinking of, where you can mix-and-match the abilities of the form in question by choosing from a menu?

[GryffonDurime]

Yes, that makes good sense. If you say the standard 'lock has two main aspects, straight damage through eldritch blast, and buffs, debuffs and utility via invocations... then you could have this shiftlock use shapeshifting to make melee his main attack option, and give it invocations focused on buffing its shifted form.

Perhaps you could work out something like the attribute-purchase system for augmenting astral construct? I think that's what I'm thinking of, where you can mix-and-match the abilities of the form in question by choosing from a menu?

Maybe if we think of Shapeshifting as a replacement to the Eldritch Blast, then it could have the Shapeshifting equivalents of Eldritch Essences and Blast Shapes. Form Shapes could used to increase a given form's Size or apply physical qualities, while Form Essences could apply more mystical benefits, like Celestial/Infernal traits and the like? That way you have the basic shapes--Quadraped, Biped, Aerial, Aquatic, however you want to name or catagorize them--and then you can pretty much create what you want by applying a Form Shape and a Form Essence? Or would that be too restrictive?

Hmm.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I had actually created four Invocation-based classes: The Priest, the Wylder, the Bard, and the Arcanist.

In brief, they were designed to replace (in order) the Cleric, the Druid, the Core Bard, and both Wizards and Sorcerers.

Arcanist and Priest had 1.2 BAB, but had 1 invocation per level, wheras the Wylder and Bard had the 3/4 and invocation progression as per Warlock.

Arcanist did blasting, lots of elemental flavor and such, utility was classic things like Force Wall and Tenser's Floating Disk.

Priest had Healing Touch, which replaces the eldrich blast, and has a limitation on how often you can use it on an individual. Also had a lot of Save or Screwed curses and such.

Wylder had the Summon Nature's Ally series replacing the Eldrich Blast, although I removed Unicorns and Genies from the list to be summoned, to avoid sheer cheeze. They could also get Aspect Invocations, which would be the closest they get to wild shape. They could also get special augmentations that would automatically affect anything they summoned.

Bard had Bardic Music instead of Eldrich Blast, only went a bit different. The first was a +1/-1 that could be applied to allies/opponents attack rolls. The next eldrich blast level, however, allowed it to affect damage rolls. It went on alternating between additional bonuses/penalties and what rolls it can affect. They also got a lot of mind-affecting sonic crowd control.

[cliffiepizza]

Mmm...an elemental warlock who receives his power from the hosts of the Djinn would be nifty. Lots of Chaos and Evil to draw on there!

I've always loved the Warlock, and I've always been a big proponent of reflavoring it, but sometimes it would just be nice to have some interesting mechanical alternatives to support that fluff. There's a reason we play Dungeons and Dragons and don't just do it freeform, ne?

Interesting Warlock Angles I've always wanted to try and tackle:

• Shiftlock - What would a Warlock look like with a more decided Shapeshifter bent? PHBII has already provided options for using this at-will for Druids, and Complete Mage includes a couple transformative Invocations.
• Illusionist - What kind of fun/balance could be struck with a flexible, at-will Illusionist? This one seems hard because it straddles useless and broken like a tourist on the stateline.
• Alchemist/Transmuationist - I saw someone who once created an Invocation-user that had a golem in lieu of an Eldritch Blast, and battlefield-control invocations. Very interesting.
• Abjurer Warlock - Mmm, what if the Warlock was all about defense rather than offense? I'm thinking someone with a Sue Storm-esque Forcefield instead of a Blast. Lots of Walls and shapes.
• Incarnum Warlock - Some kind of support for "Investable" Invocations and the like, possibly even allowing changing your Invocations as soulmelds.

ya, those are some great ideas, i love the djinn heretige idea and the alchemist with an improving golem. also shneeky, the invocation priest sounds pretty awesome. if either of you have the stats for these warlock classes please post them.

[GryffonDurime]

Invoker Priest, and Wylder, and Arcanist.

Felt like dredging them up; I remember seeing them when they were posted. They looked nifty.

[kamikasei]

Shneekey, those all sound pretty cool.

As far as the shapeshifter variant, let's take it to homebrew, neh?

[cliffiepizza]

if anyone can make a alchemist type warlock with an advancing golem like gryffondurime said, that would be awesome

[GryffonDurime]

if anyone can make a alchemist type warlock with an advancing golem like gryffondurime said, that would be awesome

It was made. It's sitting on the Homebrew forum, somewhere, assuming it's not been deleted.

I'll try and fish it up.

Ask and ye shall receive.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Invoker Priest, and Wylder, and Arcanist.

Felt like dredging them up; I remember seeing them when they were posted. They looked nifty.

Yes, these plus the Bard

[cliffiepizza]

thanks, that somaturge is an awesome class

[Te'Shen]

The gifted, the natural, and the strange warlock variants. It's kinda old, but pretty good. Then there is a warlock guide of sorts.

Another, if I can find it, the enigmist is similar to the warlock, but so completely different that it's brilliant.

[Knaight]

That and somebody made an avatar style game which pretty much has elemental eldritch blasts.

[cliffiepizza]

wow, the enigmist is great and gryffon's abjurist warlock idea sounds pretty cool

[Duke of URL]

That's actually my current project with Victorious Press -- a complete re-imagining of invocation magic, including a variety of different "flavors" rather than just the fiendish flavor presented in Complete Arcane.

It'll be a couple of months before its out, though.

[Waspinator]

Well, if you REALLY want a different take on the Warlock....
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread...93#post7186793

[cliffiepizza]

Well, if you REALLY want a different take on the Warlock....
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread...93#post7186793

its good but it seems a little underpowered, and you need to take a full round to draw a circle before you can use any powers