Psionics worth persisting

[Cuddly]

I'm playing an Ulitharid in a game right now, and I was wondering what psionic powers were worth persisting, as per the rules for Persistent Spell. The problem is my lack of familiarity with good powers. Typically I just spam augmented Dominates and Mindblasts.

[Kyeudo]

Since there is no way to cheese out a vanilla psionic persist that I know of, I can't think of any power worth it.

[CASTLEMIKE]

Depending on the level the Erudite variant with the Spells to Power feat might be interesting.

[Chronos]

The standard example for abusing this is Timeless Body, which makes you immune to absolutely everything, but which normally only lasts for a single round. It's ninth-level, though, so you'd need to pull some shenanigans to apply a metapsionic feat to it.

[Emperor Tippy]

The standard example for abusing this is Timeless Body, which makes you immune to absolutely everything, but which normally only lasts for a single round. It's ninth-level, though, so you'd need to pull some shenanigans to apply a metapsionic feat to it.

All you have to do is boost your ML to 21, get a torc of power preservation and the Earth Power feat (I believe that's its name). Assuming Persist Power is only +6 PP.

Now where are you finding Persist Power Cuddly? What book or dragon?

[ImperiousLeader]

Isn't it 2 power points per level though, so a Persist would be +12 power points?

[Emperor Tippy]

Isn't it 2 power points per level though, so a Persist would be +12 power points?

Where is the feat? I can't find it in any of my books. At all the other psionci feats are just 1 to 1 with regards to the magic ones.

[Douglas]

Persist Power does not exist in official WotC content to my knowledge.

Where equivalents exist between metapsionics and metamagic, the equivalent is 2 PP = 1 spell level, with the requirement to spend psionic focus counting as one level, though spending psionic focus does not reduce the cost below 2 PP. For example, Maximize Spell costs +3 spell levels and Maximize Power costs +4 PP and psionic focus; Twin Spell is +4, Twin Power is +6 and psionic focus; Empower Spell is +2, Empower Power is +2 and psionic focus; Quicken Spell is +4, Quicken Power is +6 and psionic focus; and so on.

Following this principle, a homebrewed Persist Power feat should require 10 additional power points and spending psionic focus.

[The_Snark]

Where is the feat? I can't find it in any of my books. At all the other psionci feats are just 1 to 1 with regards to the magic ones.

They're not. Quicken Power, for example, is six PP, plus expending psionic focus. The usual formula is (spell level adjustment x2)-2, minimum 2.

That said, I don't think Wizards has ever printed Persistent Power. Hyperconscious has one, but rather than requiring you to expend psionic focus (which is essentially meaningless) it increases the cost by 12 and requires you to maintain psionic focus, or your persisted powers all end.

[Emperor Tippy]

So 10 PP then (or twelve). The first requires an ML of 25, the second 27.

There are only 2 ways to reduce the power point cost and each reduces by 1.

[Aquillion]

Persist Power does not exist in official WotC content to my knowledge.

Where equivalents exist between metapsionics and metamagic, the equivalent is 2 PP = 1 spell level, with the requirement to spend psionic focus counting as one level, though spending psionic focus does not reduce the cost below 2 PP. For example, Maximize Spell costs +3 spell levels and Maximize Power costs +4 PP and psionic focus; Twin Spell is +4, Twin Power is +6 and psionic focus; Empower Spell is +2, Empower Power is +2 and psionic focus; Quicken Spell is +4, Quicken Power is +6 and psionic focus; and so on.

Following this principle, a homebrewed Persist Power feat should require 10 additional power points and spending psionic focus.

The problem with this is that it lets you Persist things a level higher than you could using the vanilla uncheesed magical Persist. Of course, this is true with all metapsionics, but for things that you cast in combat, trading off your arcane focus is a valid tradeoff because it takes time to recover. Outside of combat, it's not a tradeoff at all, and you're giving psionics a significant advantage for free.

(Not that it's that big of a deal; uncheesed persist isn't that great either way.)

...aren't there any other ways to boost your ML and bend/break the limit on power points you can spend?

I know! You could use Metaconcert! It doesn't list any limit on power points spent... nor does it tell you its manifester level, or whether it's actually possible for it to be psionically focused or what happens if it attempts to persist a power on itself or, well, anything.

Basically, I propose a new strategy: Announce that you're using Metaconcert. Then, when your DM is frantically flipping through the psionics books figuring out exactly what it does, steal all his other books and run away.

[Cuddly]

The book is Ultimate Feats, from Mongoose Publishing, a supplementary rule book for 3.0. A persisted power costs +8 pp.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Official WotC Persistent Power feat:
http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/msr...nsandFeats.rtf

PERSISTENT POWER [METAPSIONIC]
You make one of your powers last all day.
Prerequisite: Extend Power.
Benefit: A persistent power has a duration of 24 hours. The persistent power must have a personal range or a fixed range; you can’t use this feat on a power with a variable range, or on a power with an instantaneous duration. Note that you must concentrate on some powers to use their effects (for example, detect psionics and detect thoughts); concentration on such a power is an attack or move action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. A persistent power costs a number of power points equal to its standard cost +8.

It will work on the 1-round duration Swift-action powers like Mental Barrier, which are definitely worth having up all day. Other powers like Force Screen, Biofeedback, Animal Affinity, Thicken Skin, and Defensive Precognition are also good to Persist. At level 20 with Overchannel and Metapower you can have Persistent Timeless Body up, and be immune to absolutely everything, including dispel attempts and the effects of a null psionics field.

[Emperor Tippy]

The book is Ultimate Feats, from Mongoose Publishing, a supplementary rule book for 3.0. A persisted power costs +8 pp.

Then you need an ML of 23 to persist a 9th level power.

[jcsw]

Official WotC Persistent Power feat:
http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/msr...nsandFeats.rtf

It will work on the 1-round duration Swift-action powers like Mental Barrier, which are definitely worth having up all day. Other powers like Force Screen, Biofeedback, Animal Affinity, Thicken Skin, and Defensive Precognition are also good to Persist. At level 20 with Overchannel and Metapower you can have Persistent Timeless Body up, and be immune to absolutely everything, including dispel attempts and the effects of a null psionics field.

Oh god, only +8? That's rather broken.
Adding to these, Intellect Fortress is also good, halves the damage taken by any allies within 20 ft of you, including ability damage.
I think if you persist Synchronicity a few times you pretty much get a cheap contingent celerity kind of effect, if you augment it, you can just take an standard action anytime, anywhere. You can repeatedly cast it too, if you're bored, so that once a battle starts you can go nova with all your powers at the same time. I'm not sure if this works RAW though.

[Aquillion]

That might be a bit overpowered.

One clever thing I can think to do with it is to persist Greater Concealing Amorpha, which will grant you total concealment at all times. Among other things, this means it's impossible to make attacks of opportunity against you (ever), and you can't be targeted by spells that specifically target individuals (you can still be hit by a ray, but you'll get the 50% miss chance.) And, oh yes, that reminds me: everything has a 50% chance of missing you. This costs you all of 13 power points and can be done at 13th level.

Schism is the obvious one for extra actions.

If you have anything that increases your ML even by 1 or lets you break your power-point limit by that much, you could also persist Fission pre-epic and be two people all day long, basically doubling your actions.

Also note that unlike Time Stop, Temporal Acceleration's duration is specifically given in apparent time to you. This means that unless I'm missing something, if you psionically persist it (which you can do pre-epic with no tricks or cheese) then you get 24 hours worth of actions in a single instant, with no arguments.

(In retrospect, part of what breaks this is that unlike with spellcasting, bonuses to your manifester level increase what you can persist; extra CL doesn't grant you access higher-level spell slots, but extra ML basically does just that, at least as far as metapsionics are concerned.)

[Emperor Tippy]

Yeah, but the only real way to up your ML is with Overchannel.

[Aquillion]

Whoops. Well, you can persist 7th-level powers with a Torc Of Power Preservation, at least. I forgot about that one for a second.

[Emperor Tippy]

Whoops. Well, you can persist 7th-level powers with a Torc Of Power Preservation, at least. I forgot about that one for a second.

Yeah, and Earth Sense+Earth Power for another 1 point off the cost. Then throw on Overchannel to pick up the +3 ML.

But Timeless Body is the last thing you persist.

Get True Metabolism first, you heal 10 points per round.

[Chronos]

But Timeless Body is the last thing you persist.

Get True Metabolism first, you heal 10 points per round.

10 points of what? When you're completely immune to everything, you're not likely to be taking any damage.

[Ganurath]

So 10 PP then (or twelve). The first requires an ML of 25, the second 27.

There are only 2 ways to reduce the power point cost and each reduces by 1.

There's no magic/psionic transparency for Easy Metamagic?

[CASTLEMIKE]

Doesn't Wild Surge count towards ML?

[Jack_Simth]

10 points of what? When you're completely immune to everything, you're not likely to be taking any damage.

The 5d8 you took to use Overchannel to get your manifester level up high enough (Okay, you also used Earth Sense, Earth Power, AND a Torc of Power Preservation, but still....) to persist Timeless Body, I imagine.

[Talic]

A level 19 Wilder has Wild Surge +6. This can get him/her a manifester level of 25.

Assuming that persist would have a PP cost of +8, a 19th level Wilder could do it out of the box. The 30% chance of psychic enervation would be negated by the Timeless body, so we're good there.

Add in Earth Sense + Earth Power, and a Torc of Power Preservation, and you could do it, even if the cost was +10.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I already mentioned the feat Metapower (CP), but everyone must have missed it. It decreases the metamagic cost by 2 powerpoints for one specific power, therefore Psion 20 with Overchannel and Metapower: Persistent Timeless Body can cast it without relying on any other shenanigans.

[CASTLEMIKE]

I already mentioned the feat Metapower (CP), but everyone must have missed it. It decreases the metamagic cost by 2 powerpoints for one specific power, therefore Psion 20 with Overchannel and Metapower: Persistent Timeless Body can cast it without relying on any other shenanigans.

Excellent post. Personally I like to see the various approaches to achieve a desired result in game and use the one that works best for me. Sometimes there is a source book limit or I want to use the feats on something else. Perhaps using the Educated Wilder Variant is plenty of powers for a PC particularly in a Gestalt game (Imagine the Gestalt Game using a Spells to Power Erudite cherry picking powers and spells from all lists and using Wild Surge to bump up ML (the Erudite could pick up an additional +2 WS from pursuing Anarchic Initiate for 7 levels).

[Talic]

Ok, so an 18 wilder can get metapower: Timeless body.

Now, Persist only requires 6 pp. Total Manifester level Required: 24.

Wild Surge +5 = 23.

Torc of Power Preservation finishes it of, or, if your dm ain't so generous with items, Earth Sense + Earth Power.

Now, at the level the class gains access to 9th level magic, it can Persist it.

[Recaiden]

What about the +1 manifester level ioun stone?

Timeless body for the best defense, schism for actions, greater concealing amorpha, Tower of iron will or power resistance and biofeedback if you aren't high enough level for timeless body,

[CASTLEMIKE]

I'm playing an Ulitharid in a game right now, and I was wondering what psionic powers were worth persisting, as per the rules for Persistent Spell. The problem is my lack of familiarity with good powers. Typically I just spam augmented Dominates and Mindblasts.

Probably should have asked this earlier with +9LA. What and how many PC levels? Is it a Gestalt game?