Underground Lava Surrounded Keep

[yrm2]

Hey guys,

I used to post here frequently but life and whatever got the best of me for a good while. Anyway, I'm starting to manage gaming time back into my life and I had time to post photos of my latest terrain for the most recent Hirst Arts Design Derby.

My gaming group ran an assault against this underground keep, leading fists of dwarves (teams of five dwarves with class levels... like adv parties) against over 100 goblins, hobgoblins, etc.

So upgrading to 4E, of course we're going to re-use a lot of the terrain.

It's not everyone's thing, but, I wanted to post the link and see what you guys thought?

Underground Lava Keep (in the Tethyamar Mines)
(lots of photos here)




Links:

-->Lava Keep Photos

-->Dagger Falls (the town)

-->Cult of the Dragon Stronghold

[Burley]

This is probably something more for the Homebrew forum. I like what I saw, though. I may gank it for my group

[only1doug]

Very nice terrain. #

Its very specific so it would be difficult to use it much in a campaign except as the PC's stronghold. (but then you made it for another reason as well).

Good Job!

[yrm2]

Very nice terrain. #

Its very specific so it would be difficult to use it much in a campaign except as the PC's stronghold. (but then you made it for another reason as well).

Good Job!

Well, yeah... I can stretch it a few ways.

1 - The PCs have to invade it, and it's a fixed/known location that can be re-populated by monsters for future campaigns (totally different levels and type of encounter)

2 - I can re-use the castle, wall, and tower on my grass matt as other outposts.

3 - The PCs didn't take this over as a base, but the dwarves that they helped out did... so, they can always re-visit as friendlies and the base can come under attack again.

4 - My friend runs a campaign so the terrain that I've built (inns, castles, temples, etc) can be re-used in different ways in his campaign.

Like, we can take parts of my Dagger falls setup and re-arrange them to form a street in a different town.

Dagger Falls Photos

Thanks

[WickerNipple]

I love Hirst Arts.

[BizzaroStormy]

All you need to do now is homebrew some lava gators just incase the wizard make the group nigh-immune to the lava.

[yrm2]

All you need to do now is homebrew some lava gators just incase the wizard make the group nigh-immune to the lava.

Haha...

Well, in the 3.5 battle, they DID put on lots of Fire Resistance but I had enemy casters hit them with area dispel magics...

Plus, even if they did resist Fire 30 or immunity to Fire Damage for X amount of points, it wouldn't totally save them if they fell into the lava for a few rounds. I think Lava did 20d6 damage? No save? That's 70 damage a round on average.

And Dispel Magic didn't always remove an important effect but, it was enough to keep it interesting.

We had battles in 3.5 down to a science and we could move through them even with things like Dispel Magic without grinding the game to a halt.

Now, in 4E, I can have an enemy caster just point at an effect he doesn't like and try to Dispel it.

[The Rose Dragon]

Just remember, if you fall into lava, you die. No save.

Unless you have immunity to fire damage, then you don't die.

[only1doug]

Just remember, if you fall into lava, you die. No save.

Unless you have immunity to fire damage, then you don't die.

But you might still drown...

[fractic]

But you might still drown...

Not a chance of that happening. While lava is liquid it's still molten stone which is a lot heavier then the average human being.

[yrm2]

Just remember, if you fall into lava, you die. No save.

Unless you have immunity to fire damage, then you don't die.

Yeah...

On that note, the way this is built, crossing the bridge or fighting near the edge of the lava is always dangerous but, if you click into the link, there are some nice little tricks of the terrain to potentially spare the players.

Not only could they catch themselves on the lip but I could potentially give them another athletics check to stay on the hot crusty edge (the black parts) rather than into the molten lava. Then, they'd take ongoing fire damage while trying to find some way to climb back up. Eladrin could probably fey step back up to the lip, for example. But it's still an exciting "close call". (not that I'm opposed to instantly killing a player if the rolls go that way)

[BigPapaSmurf]

My concern is the radiant heat, walking across that bridge would kill you. What kind of super-air conditioning system they got in there?

[Attilargh]

Pfft, convection schmonvection.

Reminds me of Ars Magica. This is a good thing.

[fractic]

What kind of super-air conditioning system they got in there?

That would be the Rule of Cooler.

[TeeEl]

The surface of the bridge looks to be, what, like 15 feet above the lava? Yeah, anyone who's close enough to touch the crusty bits is going to be boiled in their skin, but would the bridge really be instant death (not that hanging around on it would be recommended for your health, mind you)?

[BigPapaSmurf]

Yep, the whole damn place would have super heated air above 200f. My guess is two steps and down for the permanent count.

[Person_Man]

If anyone complained about convection after I went to all the trouble of putting together the world's greatest terrain for their combats I would have alien ninja robot zombies from space attack them. Verisimilitude is goes out the door when you have something that awesome available.

[BigPapaSmurf]

Id put in some sort of force shielding above the lava tubes/rivers, which suppress heat and prevent ash/smoke from moving upwards. Two miles underground, the ambient temperature would be over 100f from the pressure, without any lava at all.

Many problems arise when digging so deep into the Earth. The most obvious is the heat. For example, at 5 km the temperature reaches 70 degrees Celsius and therefore massive cooling equipment is needed to allow workers to survive at such depths. Another problem is the weight of the rock. For example, at 3.5 km the pressure of rocks above you is 9,500 tones per meter squared, or about 920 times normal atmospheric pressure. When rock is removed through mining this pressure triples in the surrounding rock. This effect coupled with the cooling of the rock causes a phenomenon known as rock bursts, which accounts for many of the 250 deaths in South African mines every year.

Yefim Cavalier -- 2003

[xPANCAKEx]

UNLESS - the rock is of a type that absorbs ambient heat

sure, its unrealistic, but you're fighting goblins, so realism isn't essential

[BigPapaSmurf]

UNLESS - the rock is of a type that absorbs ambient heat

sure, its unrealistic, but you're fighting goblins, so realism isn't essential

I have no problem with unrealistic, but you need a suitable explanation IMO.

As for yours, it don't float.

Everything absorbs ambient heat, if it didnt, the ambient heat will only get compounded by the lava. The weight of the rock above naturally heats the rocks anyway, normally the rock heat would dissipate through the air in the cavern, however in this case the air is hotter than the rock, so the heat could only go up through the rock, very slowly. You could build your castle out of space shuttle tiles or something, but that wouldnt stop the air flow, you're gonna need something magic for that.

As for a natural solution, you would need a massive chimney say 20' wide at least and one or more fresh air holes at a low point, the heat drives up the chimney and pulls in new air from the lower holes. That might keep you alive for a few minutes anyway, unfortunately this only brings in fresh oxygen for things to burn even hotter...

[yrm2]

Well, I had some of these same issues with Anakin vs Obi Won in Episode 3 as far as... how on earth are they even surviving? Frodo and Sam probably should have died the second they set foot in Mount Doom too right?

(honestly, I'd agree with that, they SHOULD have died... all that heat rising straight up from directly below them with almost no surface to deflect the heat?)

But, since we're in D&D land, here are some ways to help you to suspend disbelief. I'll provide 10 ways.

1 - This was a dwarven mine so, possible that the depth isn't so great and that the lava is simply re-directed for defensive and metal working purposes. Maybe they need the heat for forging Adamantine or something? They could have crafted a channel before punching through to the molten rock, like letting water flow through a dam.

(so therefore, it's not necessarily miles deep)

2 - If the lava is moving fairly quickly, and it probably would be, the heated air could largely flow with the lava. The model doesn't display exactly how the lava enters or leaves the chamber.

(so some of the hot air is vented with the lava)

3 - I don't display the cavern ceiling which could be very high and also vented... the hot air could have plenty of room to rise.

4 - This is in the Forgotten Realms where there is LITERALLY miles of underdark and whole cities that exist underground and below sea level (some under the seas themselves. I believe it's assumed that some level of magic is at work in the underdark (same magic that hinders teleport spells). Otherwise, why wouldn't the seas just flood the whole underdark?

5 - This is also the Forgotten Realms where there is a history of cities that were built on top of mountains which were cut off by magic and flipped upside down. If mages can solve THIS problem, the problem of channelling heat should be less severe, even for lesser mages.

6 - Along those lines, there are plenty of spells for working in hot areas or resisting heat, the dwarves would have had access to these.

7 - 3.5 Rules for Lava, or functioning on say, the Elemental Plane of Fire (which should be hotter than this) exist and make such unbelievable terrain possible.

8 - 4E encourages naturally impossible settings...

9 - Have you guys even read these forums lately? There was a debate on whether a wizard could defeat six terrasques... Compared to that, a little lava is much easier to believe. :-)

10 - I murdered any PCs who complained about the lava being unrealistic and then it stopped being a problem.

(joking, I didn't murder any PCs)

[xPANCAKEx]

I have no problem with unrealistic, but you need a suitable explanation IMO.

As for yours, it don't float.

mine is suitably unrealistic! CHECK MATE!

[Prometheus]

Do you have any floorplans or blueprints?

[AslanCross]

Do you have any floorplans or blueprints?

Seconded. This looks fantastic.

[Doomsy]

Note that I am not really familiar with geological stuff, but if the keep is part of a dwarven mine that might not actually be lava. It could be part of the smelting process cleverly used as part of their defenses. I'm not exactly sure how much that increases the survivability factor but it might be a cool feature to work in if you are going for more realism.

[yrm2]

I never really bothered to explain whether it was lava or molten adamantine components or whatever... because the dwarves had lost the mines centuries ago to devilish forces.

In my story there were portals all through the mines... and in, I think it was the FRCS, they describe dwarves getting trapped by a portal to the lower levels and having to almost fight their way back to the surface.

So, who knows? Maybe the dwarves harnassed a portal to a hot plane and that's what caused the mines to fall all those ages ago?

Maybe there are portals to the elemental plane of ice to cool the place?

Lol... I dunno... I tossed out a few hints to the party and left it a plausible mystery. Had they tried to solve it, I'd have figured that out as I went.

I added more links of terrain images to the top post if anyone is interested (below the first photo).

(added here too for your convenience)

Links:

-->Lava Keep Photos

-->Dagger Falls (the town)

-->Cult of the Dragon Stronghold

[yrm2]

Seconded. This looks fantastic.

I missed these two requests for floorplans or blueprints earlier.

Unfortunately, I just planned this out very roughly with Illustrator to get the sizes of the base elements right. I did a few rough sketches and just built the models kind of free forming as they went.

I planned out the foam and basic shapes in 3DS Max before trying to cut the foam... which I gridded, and measured and carved with a hot wire.

They DO have plans for Hirst Art buildings on the HIrst Arts website but, they are very simple buildings comparatively. This (keep) would be really hard to build if you haven't built anything with HA molds before.

All of my buildings are unique because I sort of need the creative outlet. Even though I am a graphic designer, doing these castles is one of the few times that I'm really working for myself and not stuck in front of a PC working.

[Prometheus]

Ahh I see.

Some of the poster here play D&D campaigns by graphing paper and other written forms, so my hope was to integrate the fantasy location into one of my campaigns (like a pre-written module), using the floorplans to keep track and your beautiful screenshots to provide a more visual feedback.

I understand that you don't happen to have anything like that, and I wouldn't ask you to make it on a whim. I have to say I am really impressed though.

[yrm2]

Ahh I see.

Some of the poster here play D&D campaigns by graphing paper and other written forms, so my hope was to integrate the fantasy location into one of my campaigns (like a pre-written module), using the floorplans to keep track and your beautiful screenshots to provide a more visual feedback.

I understand that you don't happen to have anything like that, and I wouldn't ask you to make it on a whim. I have to say I am really impressed though.

Thanks... well... what you could do, for this or for the big Cultist Keep or whatever?

You could look at the photos and grid something out that is very similar.

Like, the keep is a 3/4 section of an 8" round tower with a 4" tower inside it... you can see in some of the shots how the lowest level is crafted. Most of the other rooms going up are individual rooms.

The photos of the Dragon Cultist keep are detailed enough that they could work as floorplans... you'd just have to graph them out.

The HA blocks are designed on 25mm scale so, one floor tile IS one inch, which IS 5 feet so... what you're suggesting wouldn't be too hard.