Monk vs. wizard

[Nowhere Girl]

The monk is allowed full wealth by level.

The wizard is naked, bound, gagged, has both eyes gouged out, and is not allowed a spellbook.

Discuss.

[Xefas]

Well, Spell Mastery could solve the Spellbook problem, depending on what level we're starting at.

Are Prestige Classes allowed? Because with a few levels of Archmage, the Wizard could totally do it.

[Demented]

The Monk gives the Wizard all his wealth in exchange for his life.
Match ends in a draw.

[Fenix_of_Doom]

Yes, another monk vs wizard thread, just what I needed in the morning.

Well the wizard obviously needs still spell and silent spell, if he takes spell mastery and chooses some teleport effect to get away from the monk, he can then cast summon creature to release him from his bounds, there has to be a magical spell that grants sight, from there on he just needs to go kill some weaker creatures for loot, get some equipment and kill the monk.

[Yami]

The monk, because he secretly took wizard at second level and never looked back.

[Nowhere Girl]

Yes, another monk vs wizard thread, just what I needed in the morning.

I aim to please.

I'll post about how to fix casters next. I want to get a post complaining about ToB in, but it's too early to do that again yet.

[Armads]

Has the wizard prepared his spells beforehand? Is this an arena setting (or a normal setting?)

[Nowhere Girl]

Has the wizard prepared his spells beforehand? Is this an arena setting (or a normal setting?)

Consider everything I didn't specify to be variables you can play with to your heart's content, playing out different scenarios depending on location and whether the wizard has prepared or not, as well as whether the monk is going to run immediately, try to Diplomancy his way to victory, or stand and die fight.

Go nuts.

I'm off to bed. Have fun, guys!

[cupkeyk]

she's prolly from 4chan

[Emperor Demonking]

The wizard wins, he teleports out of the gags and other items, and then just wins.

[Bag_of_Holding]

Well, if the monk is also naked, bound, gagged, has both eyes gouged out, and is not allowed to buy anything with her wealth, then I think it's pretty much a draw.

[Kurald Galain]

The awesome samurai sneak attacks them both simultaneously, and wins.

[Xefas]

Well, if the monk is also naked, bound, gagged, has both eyes gouged out, and is not allowed to buy anything with her wealth, then I think it's pretty much a draw.

Not even close. For one, the monk can try Escape Artist checks.

For two, the Wizard just Still Silent Dimension Doors away, casts Blindsight, and then Coup De Graces the Monk with...anything.

Having the Wizard completely naked, bound, gagged, and with both eyes gouged out, and the Monk perfectly fine is a trickier matter. You'd probably have to Dimension Door into the air, Quickened Fly, and then the NEXT round, cast Blindsight, and then the NEXT round, kill the Monk.

[Armads]

Wizard (preparing all his spells before he got trapped) casts a Stilled Silent Otiluke's Resilient Sphere, trapping himself inside. Then he shatters the ropes, and laughs at the monk, then teleports to his wizard tower or something. Then he pays adventurers to go on a quest to kill the monk.

[Cuddly]

Yeah, and then the wizard could teleport a sword into Tiamat's heart or something!!

[Kaelik]

Yeah, and then the wizard could teleport a sword into Tiamat's heart or something!!

Are you serious? No one has yet suggested something against the rules. Archmage SLAs of Greater Teleport are pretty common. That alone automatically gets the Wizard back to his tower.

[Jack_Simth]

I'll post about how to fix casters next.

It's the spells, not the casters; what do you think of My attempt for the Core Sor/Wiz list?

Not even close. For one, the monk can try Escape Artist checks.

For two, the Wizard just Still Silent Dimension Doors away, casts Blindsight, and then Coup De Graces the Monk with...anything.

Having the Wizard completely naked, bound, gagged, and with both eyes gouged out, and the Monk perfectly fine is a trickier matter. You'd probably have to Dimension Door into the air, Quickened Fly, and then the NEXT round, cast Blindsight, and then the NEXT round, kill the Monk.

You can't - DDoor into the air before the Quickened Fly, that is - the Conjuration school doesn't let you put something on a surface that won't support it:

A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. The creature or object must appear within the spell’s range, but it does not have to remain within the range.

(Emphasis added)

[Roderick_BR]

The monk is allowed full wealth by level.

The wizard is naked, bound, gagged, has both eyes gouged out, and is not allowed a spellbook.

Discuss.

Wait, WHO trapped the wizard that way? It certainly was NOT the monk.

[Ralfarius]

The monk, feeling the spirit of the season, releases the wizard from his bonds. Such a heartfelt gesture touches the wizard deeply, and he invites the monk and the monk's entire family into his magnificent mansion and they eat a wonderful dinner. The monk uses his WBL to distribute an array of thoughtful gifts to all present.

Conclusion: Everybody wins!

[PirateMonk]

Wait, WHO trapped the wizard that way? It certainly was NOT the monk.

The DM, of course.

[FlyMolo]

The DM, of course.

Using pseudonatural paragon divine minion tarrasques (sp?) as his emissaries.

And that world-ender template that was around here a minute ago.

[Douglas]

You can't - DDoor into the air before the Quickened Fly, that is - the Conjuration school doesn't let you put something on a surface that won't support it:

Originally Posted by SRD, Magic Overview, Schools of Magic, Conjouration
A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. The creature or object must appear within the spell’s range, but it does not have to remain within the range.

(Emphasis added)

Emphasis altered. The caster of DD is neither brought into being nor transported to his own location, so that clause does not apply.

[Jack_Simth]

Emphasis altered. The caster of DD is neither brought into being nor transported to his own location, so that clause does not apply.

Your location has changes, but you're still a creature brought to your location.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Easy. Can we build both characters as we pleasw with the condition that they must be level 20, and that at least 2/3's of their levels must be in the base class?

[AmberVael]

A wizard prepared to be caught in such a manner could likely deal with it (if only by running away). However, given that he was caught in the first place, I'd say he is pretty well messed up. I'll grant that a wizard could be built that could overcome this, but a normal one in a campaign would, in all likelihood, be doomed.

[Mojo_Rat]

This is an idiotic example. Really I suppose just to make fun of the monk. but here goes.

Monk wins initative. Monk stuns the wizard. Wizard looses. Its really that simple. Could it go another way? sure if the wizard has a bunch of idiotic spells prepped that No one really preps for being bound and gagged. and to be honest? my 'i win' example works if the Wizard is wide awake.

Sure monks are not the best but they are alot of fun to play. Ive never not enjoyed playing one.

Edited
Though it occurs to me by answeiring this seriously i may have fallen into a trap.

[The Glyphstone]

This is an idiotic example. Really I suppose just to make fun of the monk. but here goes.

Monk wins initative. Monk stuns the wizard. Wizard looses. Its really that simple. Could it go another way? sure if the wizard has a bunch of idiotic spells prepped that No one really preps for being bound and gagged. and to be honest? my 'i win' example works if the Wizard is wide awake.

Sure monks are not the best but they are alot of fun to play. Ive never not enjoyed playing one.

Have you missed every previous thread on this topic? If so, good for you, they are a total wast of time.

The thing is, that doesnt happen with Shrodinger's Wizard. The monk can't win initiative because the Wizard uses Celerity. Even in core, the Wizard will likely have a higher Dex than the monk, thus the Wizard will be more likely to win initiative - at which point the monk loses. Teleport isn't a stupid spell, it's a spell any non-moronic wizard will have memorized...A Stilled Silent Teleport is a bit more situational, but I suppose a sufficiently paranoid wizard would have one available.

EDIT: Yes, I believe this thread is a joke...

[Kaelik]

This is an idiotic example. Really I suppose just to make fun of the monk. but here goes.

Monk wins initative. Monk stuns the wizard. Wizard looses. Its really that simple. Could it go another way? sure if the wizard has a bunch of idiotic spells prepped that No one really preps for being bound and gagged. and to be honest? my 'i win' example works if the Wizard is wide awake.

Sure monks are not the best but they are alot of fun to play. Ive never not enjoyed playing one.

Edited
Though it occurs to me by answeiring this seriously i may have fallen into a trap.

Archmage SLA of Greater Teleport is all the preparation ever needed for anything. (Also quite common.)

Also, the Wizard has an almost even chance of winning init if he took Improved Init. He might also have one of his 40hr duration spells that gives immunity to stunning up, he might also be a Necropolitian, he might also make the fort save.

Trust us, Wizards are infinitely better then Monks, and the most common builds have ways out of most situations.

[Mojo_Rat]

Thats alot of 'might haves's int hat statement though and starts to getinto the PRC issue. The example wasnt a Monk vs an archmage it was a monk vs a wizard.

So it seems my statement stands fairly sound in that the Wizard could surivive if he has theoretical spells prepared ahead of time. wheere as the Monk does not need any theoretical preperation ahead of time . ITs a stupid example intended to humiliate the monk.

Is the class perfect? No but you would be amazed that Lots of oeple dont play the way the people on here or the wizards forums Do.. Im not trying to be antagonistic but these sorts of examples just get on my nerves.

[Fenix_of_Doom]

Easy. Can we build both characters as we pleasw with the condition that they must be level 20, and that at least 2/3's of their levels must be in the base class?

20 level is very advantageous to the wizard, so it should be easy, you can only have 7 prc levels, that's okee(I don't think you need any at all), spell mastery is superior to archmage anyway and 7 levels is all you need for initiate of the seven cheeses.
So:
Human
Wizard(general):9
Iotsv:7
Wizard:4
INT:18 start, 5 level boosts 5 inherent bonus(wish,tomb, whatever)=28
rest:unimportant
Feats:
H:still spell
1:silent spell
3:whatever Iotsv needs
(W)5: quicken spell
6: see 3
9: see 3, if not needed Arcane Thesis:fly
12:spell mastery(fly, Summon Monster VI, Shatter, some fun other spells)
15:Arcane Thesis:Greater Teleport
17(W):spell mastery(Time Stop, Greater Teleport, some lvl 6-7-8-9 save or die effects)
18:something fun

If the monk can get close enough to you before it's you turn, cast some Iotsv veil as immediate action.
So you cast quickened, still, silenced fly, teleport somewhere the monk can't find you, still, silenced shatter or summon monster, now rest, prepare spells, maybe cast greater arcane sight and/or Blindsight and other buffs.
Find monk, disjunction monk, cast Save or Die spells at monk from a safe distance until he dies.

good enough?