[WoD] Hunter Games?

[Lord Tataraus]

While the playground is mostly D&D-centric, I know there are a few World of Darkness people out there so I pose this question: Has anyone played a Hunter campaign?

I picked it up at GenCon and read through it, but I have yet to actually run/play in a game yet and I was wondering if anyone else has tried it out and if so what level of play was it? I'm thinking of going with a level 3 (Conspiracies) because the endowments look really neat, but I wonder if it might be a bit much to start out with since it kind of assumes the characters have been around for a awhile and know pretty much what they are doing. Additionally, did you try any crossovers like throwing in vampires or mages or whatever?

[Prustan]

The only WoD I've played was a game of Mage about ten years ago. I've got several Hunter and Mage books myself, and I've spoken with several more experienced WoD players, so I'll tell you what I was told about the powers of the different characters.

Hunters get screwed by Vampires - 4 or so to take out a similar cost Vamp.
Vampires get screwed by Werewolves - 4 or so to take out a similar cost Were.
Werewolves get screwed by Mages - don't know how many to take out the Mage.

So, if you want to add in some of the others to your Hunter game, be prepared for character deaths.

[Kurald Galain]

Hunters get screwed by Vampires - 4 or so to take out a similar cost Vamp.
Vampires get screwed by Werewolves - 4 or so to take out a similar cost Were.
Werewolves get screwed by Mages - don't know how many to take out the Mage.

To make things worse, hunters can't touch a vampire if he's got Obfuscate (or, for that matter, big enough Presence); vamps can't touch a Garou if he steps into the umbra; and Garou can't touch a mage if he's halfway decent at protection spells and/or has Arcane going.

That's why I find Hunter a silly concept - playing an ordinary mortal and attempting to take out high-powered supernaturals is a bad idea.

Of course, they "fixed" it by giving the Hunters supernatural powers as well, but that seems to violate the entire concept of hunters in the first place.

[Lord Tataraus]

To make things worse, hunters can't touch a vampire if he's got Obfuscate (or, for that matter, big enough Presence); vamps can't touch a Garou if he steps into the umbra; and Garou can't touch a mage if he's halfway decent at protection spells and/or has Arcane going.

That's why I find Hunter a silly concept - playing an ordinary mortal and attempting to take out high-powered supernaturals is a bad idea.

Of course, they "fixed" it by giving the Hunters supernatural powers as well, but that seems to violate the entire concept of hunters in the first place.

Well, Task Force VALKERIE just has a bunch of technology that effects ethereal stuff, but yeah I guess you're right. However, the Hunter book has the hunters facing "demons" and cultists, not the Vampires or Werewolves. Though a cell of Hunters with the right tools could probably tkae out a vampire or werewolf, they just have to prepare for it.

[IM@work]

I did play a full Hunters game and in the way we played it we were always behind the monsters in some way and had to use our resources to outwit them or super-awesome firepower. This is much different from the D+D campaign. Basically you have to modes of play in Hunter the: run and hope you survive and the flamethrower/tank/bazooka style. Also, enlisting the aid of one of the monsters is a good way to fight fire with fire.
Overall I think the success of these types of games depends on the DM. It is more mood than action most of the time so be prepared for heavy role playing rather than multiple battles.

[Renegade Paladin]

I've played Hunter in the old World of Darkness, but the local Storyteller hates the new revision, so we don't play nWoD.

[Attilargh]

I love WoD threads that do not explicitly specify if the OP is talking about the old or the new game.

Hint: This time the OP means Hunter: the Vigil, where you need to know pretty badass people to actually have a fighting chance against the supernatural. Otherwise you're just a guy, and I really hope you have a plan. What I've read of it is pretty sweet.

[Jerthanis]

To make things worse, hunters can't touch a vampire if he's got Obfuscate (or, for that matter, big enough Presence); vamps can't touch a Garou if he steps into the umbra; and Garou can't touch a mage if he's halfway decent at protection spells and/or has Arcane going.

That's why I find Hunter a silly concept - playing an ordinary mortal and attempting to take out high-powered supernaturals is a bad idea.

Of course, they "fixed" it by giving the Hunters supernatural powers as well, but that seems to violate the entire concept of hunters in the first place.

That's what makes Hunter so Great (tm). You cannot win, so you have to cheat. I've played one Hunter the Reckoning game, and except for our Martyr, who could "Hulk out" none of us made exceptional use of our Hunter Superpowers. You don't pull out a knife and stab a vampire, you drive trucks into them to pin them to walls and then empty the clip into them twice or three times. You plant explosives in the sewers and blow them when the vampire walks over the grate. You run and you hide and you survive, and when you win, you win against all odds.

Hunter: the Reckoning's biggest flaw was that Hunters got superpowers, and from what I can tell, Hunter: The Vigil either did away with them or regulated them to an abandonable subsystem. I'm almost certainly going to pick up and run Hunter: The Vigil soon.

EDIT: Also, I'm a huge fan of the streamlined nWoD ruleset, and I'd say the nWoD core book is one of the top 5 best RPG books I've ever seen. I'm not an overwhelming fan of nVampire, haven't read nWerewolf at all (but I never read old Werewolf either), and despise nMage. nWoD Hunter, which is the logical extension of the core book is hopefully just as good as that core book.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I can only speak from OWoD experience.

The problem with Hunter is that it appears to encourage actively going out and combating things that can absolutely eat your character alive in a straight fight. Plus, combat as a mortal, Hunter or no, is amazingly lethal. It's probably better to use it as psychologically slanted Survival Horror - more Resident Evil 2 than Resident Evil 4.

[Selrahc]

Hunters seem really low on power compared to the other supernaturals. A normal crossover game can see the hunter struggling to keep up unless you give them some bonus xp at the start. You've basically got a few anti supernatural tricks you can perform, but nothing which gives you the consistency or flexibility of a super. Most of the time you're a run of the mill mortal. For that reason, a crossover game wouldn't be that great an idea with a rookie hunter.

An alternative could be to use some of the lower powered templates if you want a crossover. Psychics or Thaumaturges from second sight, Skinchangers from skinthieves, ghouls from Vampire. Much closer in power to what Hunter gives out.

[Lord Tataraus]

I love WoD threads that do not explicitly specify if the OP is talking about the old or the new game.

Hint: This time the OP means Hunter: the Vigil, where you need to know pretty badass people to actually have a fighting chance against the supernatural. Otherwise you're just a guy, and I really hope you have a plan. What I've read of it is pretty sweet.

Oh, well, initially I posed the question to be neutral to the version, but I guess the second part might be Vigil only. I assume the different versions are not too different so as to make OWoD Hunter games irrelevant.

On the topic of Hunter's gaining supernatural powers, in Vigil at least only the 3rd level of play includes endowments while the other two levels give you nothing except the knowledge that you aren't alone

[Kurald Galain]

You don't pull out a knife and stab a vampire, you drive trucks into them to pin them to walls and then empty the clip into them twice or three times. You plant explosives in the sewers and blow them when the vampire walks over the grate.

Okay, that actually sounds like fun.

Hunter: the Reckoning's biggest flaw was that Hunters got superpowers

Precisely.

Hunters seem really low on power compared to the other supernaturals. A normal crossover game can see the hunter struggling to keep up unless you give them some bonus xp at the start.

Yes, that's the whole point. Hunters are weak. WOD isn't made for crossovers, honestly. Besides, any two groups of supernaturals will hate each other's guts anyway - from a Garou's point of view, kindred are wyrm-tainted, and magi try to steal their caerns away because it so happens that a caern is the (near-)exact same thing as a node. And don't get me started on demons...

[Selrahc]

Yes, that's the whole point. Hunters are weak. WOD isn't made for crossovers, honestly. Besides, any two groups of supernaturals will hate each other's guts anyway - from a Garou's point of view, kindred are wyrm-tainted, and magi try to steal their caerns away because it so happens that a caern is the (near-)exact same thing as a node. And don't get me started on demons...

I'm talking about vigil. I.E, the NWoD Hunter game.

Unlike Old World of Darkness, the designers didn't hardwire hatred for all others supernaturals into this game, and kept the various templates at much the same power level(Give or take), much more crossover friendly in general, although a crossover still isn't the norm.

NWoD hunters are still much weaker than the supers though. Depending on the tier, the most they get access to is some advanced combat tactics(To inure them to mind control for instance), a specific minor supernatural power(Catholic priests get rituals, Alchemists get wierd potions, Men in Black get wierd gadgets etc.), and a little bit of leeway on the morality system. At the lowest tiers, they get nothing. So yeah, that and the general anti super mindset makes a crossover less feasible.

[TheElfLord]

Oh, well, initially I posed the question to be neutral to the version, but I guess the second part might be Vigil only. I assume the different versions are not too different so as to make OWoD Hunter games irrelevant.

On the topic of Hunter's gaining supernatural powers, in Vigil at least only the 3rd level of play includes endowments while the other two levels give you nothing except the knowledge that you aren't alone

See there is not such thing as "levels of play" in Hunter the Reckoning. I've never read the new stuff, but I've played in one old Hunter game. It was the last WW game line we tried, but my friends decided it would be a good starter game for the WoD because hunters are humans experiencing a new world. The ST could introduce monsters from other lines, and if the new group showed an interest then perhaps a game of vampire or werewolf etc would follow based on group preferences.

[horseboy]

We used to play WW a lot. There were several people in the area with huge v-peens. So inevitably it wound up being 5 or 6 vampires being hunted by the rest of the group. Oh, the Fianna IRA bomber that called down the Wild Hunt on a coterie of Brujah. The Glass Walker with the Steel Fur and the bound Helios spirit in a Laser Tag gun to create a laser death-ray. Then there was Joy-toy's Graul that took an 60d10 explosion and walked away and soloed all the vamps that night. Mutt's Decoy Duck mortal. He had I think it was the Tasty Blood flaw that made vampires addicted to his blood and got twice as many blood points, and the Fatal Blood merit that made his blood do one level of unsoakable aggravated damage for every point consumed. Quief's gypsy with the cat's paw tattooes and his ability to throw like 30 daggers a round. Hmm, for the purely mundane characters, we'd usually make ourselves and it was supposed to be more of an intro into us as vampires, course with my dislike of the undead, those campaigns didn't last very long.

[Darkfalle]

That's what makes Hunter so Great (tm). You cannot win, so you have to cheat. I've played one Hunter the Reckoning game, and except for our Martyr, who could "Hulk out" none of us made exceptional use of our Hunter Superpowers. You don't pull out a knife and stab a vampire, you drive trucks into them to pin them to walls and then empty the clip into them twice or three times. You plant explosives in the sewers and blow them when the vampire walks over the grate. You run and you hide and you survive, and when you win, you win against all odds.

And this is the reason I love Hunter: The Reckoning as much as I do. Despite the powers, you're essentially just people and you have to play smart if you want to survive.

[Satyr]

I am a complete and total Werewolf: Apocalypse fanboy, so I may be a bit jaded towards thiss whole theme of heroically figting against unbeatable odds, but Hunter is a fun game, most of the time. The "super powers" are not that dominating, the characters are not dominating strong and really have to be careful or die in a horrible tragedy. Crossovers are generally not a that good idea in WoD, as most games have a very different angle and moot and this distinct character is easily lost when you splash very different appeals together to get a nice, bland and mediocre result in the end - see the Nwod. If you are interested in something like this, I would recommend you Kinfolk: Unsung Heroes, which does not try to mash it all together, and works perfectly fine.

In the original world of darkness, at least. I don't talk or care about the ripoff version.