Return of the Anti-Party...

[TheCountAlucard]

Months back, I posted the idea of having an adventuring party oppose the PCs in my evil game. Well, since my campaign got put on hold over the summer, we never really got around to that part, until now. I figured I'd introduce the opposite party in the next session, which is on Friday.

Here's my problem: the party has changed since then. It was originally a party of four PCs. When one of the players stopped coming to the games, I had his character simply not be there for the session. Soon afterward, we got another player, who made a new character, and that was right before the game got put on haiatus for several months.

Once the school year started and we all trickled back to the college, I decided to start my game again. Since they expressed enough interest, I allowed two more players to make characters for the evil game.

The long and short of it is, the anti-party I built before all this is now no longer thematic nor appropriate for this party. I can keep the three original members' opposite numbers, but I shall have to create three new characters to oppose the new PCs.

The new PCs are a Human Fighter 7, a Human Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 1, and a Shifter Barbarian 8.

Any suggestions for thematic opposites for these PCs?

[BobVosh]

Like The Linear Guild?

[SoD]

The new PCs are a Human Fighter 7, a Human Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 1, and a Shifter Barbarian 8.

One possibility, if you're going for the 'same but different', a la Linear Guild, would be:

Human Fighter 7=Elven Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 1/Rogue 3.
Human Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 1=Elan Psion 3/Wizard 3/Cerebremancer 1.
Shifter Barbarian 1=Hobgoblin Knight.

For Fighter: Daring Outlaw and Daring Warrior (Complete Scoundrel). Swashbuckler now stacks with rogue for sneak attack, with fighter for bonus feats, and for both grace and dodge bonus.
For Cerebremancer: It's the same as the Mystic Theurge, only for arcane/manifesting.
For Knight: Not much to say here. Don't konw that much about knights.

[turkishproverb]

For the new ones? A caster 5/spell addict 2 For the caster, a dwarf rogue/swashbuckler or monk/drunken master to counter the fighter, and a Halfling Bard for the shifter.

[Tempest Fennac]

Fighter: I'd say Warblade based on how they have similar fluff which they achieve in different ways.
MT: I'd say Druid based on how they have a lot of spell versatillity, but they are better on the frontlines then a Mystic Theurge.
Barbarian: I'd say Beguiller due to how they rely on stealth and mind-affecting magic over brute force.

[turkishproverb]

that's a little too opposite. If its like the linear guild, we need more of a bizarro thing.

[Tempest Fennac]

I thought the idea was for them to be complete opposites? If it isn't keep the Warblade and go with Archivist and Knight in place of the Druid and Beguiller.

[turkishproverb]

I thought the idea was for them to be complete opposites? If it isn't keep the Warblade and go with Archivist and Knight in place of the Druid and Beguiller.

I was thinking linear guild, which is anything but complete opposites. Thats why i said that.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

So, the anti-party needs to basically be a parody of the actual party...

Human Fighter 7: Water Orc Dragonborn of Bahamut (RotD) Paladin 7, with the Wings aspect of Dragonborn. He should have Power Attack, any feat, and Extra Smiting (CW) with the Charging Smite variant (PH2). His prepared spells should include Rhino's Rush (SC) and he should have at least three 1st level Pearls of Power. He uses Power Attack two-handed for a -3 to hit (+6 damage), with Smite Evil (+cha to hit, +7 damage), Charging Smite (+14 damage), Dive Attack (double damage), and Rhino's Rush (double damage again is triple damage). You can imagine what will happen when he hits. Paladins are typically underestimated, especially orc paladins, and against an evil party this one will be particularly dangerous, plus he easily fits at least a few stereotypes.

Human Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 1: CG Hellbred (FC2) Warlock 7. Get Ability Focus: Eldritch Blast and use Beshadowed Blast. Get the feats Fiendish Heritage and Fiendish Power (CM), qualifying for the alignment requirement by virtue of his racial ability. Maybe switch to Fey Heritage/Power if you don't like the prerequisite trick, along with Fey Skin if you give him a flaw, I'd go with noncombatant due to personal dislike through a desire to avoid repeating his past crimes. Consider (ab)using Spiderwalk to stay out of melee while blasting away. The primary draw of a Mystic Theurge is its versatility and volume of daily spells, whereas a Warlock has very few options for what to cast (opposite extreme) though with unlimited uses (outdoes a presumed advantage to the extreme). This will probably be the most interesting character of the anti-party and will likely fill a leadership role.

Shifter Barbarian 8: Human Monk 6/ Psionic Fist (of Zuoken) 2, with one flaw for Aberration Blood: Flexible Limbs (LoM), Inhuman Reach (LoM), Warped Mind (substituted for Wild Talent, LoM), Improved Grapple, Combat Reflexes, Deepspawn (LoM), and Practiced Manifester: Psionic Fist (of Zuoken) (CP). Powers known should be Expansion and Grip of Iron. His tactics should be self explanatory, and I think this makes a perfect opposite for the PC in question.

[Ascension]

[offtopic]Did you give Humans a level adjustment or has the Shifter just gotten more XP somehow?[/offtopic]

[Starbuck_II]

The new PCs are a Human Fighter 7, a Human Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 1, and a Shifter Barbarian 8.

Any suggestions for thematic opposites for these PCs?

What kind of Shifter?>

Human Fighter 7: Crusader 1-2/Fighter 1-2/Crusader 3-4/Fighter 3 (total Crusader 4/Fighter 3)
Feats: Shield Specialization, Improved Shield Bash, Agile Shield Fighter, Improved Unarmed Strike, Shield Sling, Superior Unarm Strike.
Manuevers: Charging Minotaur, Vanguard Strike, Leading the Attack, Douse the Flames, Crusader's Strike, and Stone Vise.
Trade with Leading the Attack -> for White Raven Tactics.
Stances: Martial Spirit, Leading the Charge.

Human Wiz 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 1:
I think a Spell Thief would be a good idea. Not sure what build.


Shifter Barb 8:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost....3&postcount=28
Something like above but reduced in level:
Human Monk 4/Psychic Warrior 1/War Mind 3
Powers: 1st - Expansion, Grip of Iron
2nd - Animal Affinity, Reach* (From online WotC mind's eye)

Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike (Monk1), Improved Grapple (Monk1), Wild Talent (1), Psionic Fist (Human), Combat Reflexes (Monk2), Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike) (3), Psionic Meditation (PsyWar1), Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike) (6)

He used Grapple, Enlarging, or physical might.

[TheCountAlucard]

I was thinking linear guild, which is anything but complete opposites. Thats why i said that.

Yeah, I'm looking for thematic opposites. The Human Dread Necromancer's enemy was a Human Paladin/Grey Guard. The Cleric/Divine Agent of Nerull's opposite number was a Cleric/Radiant Servant of Pelor. The Drow Rogue's enemy was an Elven Bard.

By the way, I'm not using psionics, and no ToB if possible.

More info on the newer characters:

The Shifter Barbarian is melee-focused, wields a flaming greataxe and whatnot. All of his feats are Shifter feats. Personality-wise, he's actually a somewhat calm individual. He only rages or shifts when he thinks he's got a tough fight on his hands.

The Human Fighter wears a chain shirt and wields a greatsword. He uses Power Attack and the like. The player is kind of new to roleplaying, so his character isn't very well-developed as of yet.

The Mystic Theurge is unarmored, no weapons, relies fully on his spellcasting. He's very quick to toss off a spell. He's somewhat bookish, and very sarcastic.

[Siegel]

For the MT try a Armored Wizard thingy High Armor but no Spell Failure etc.

[playswithfire]

The Shifter Barbarian is melee-focused, wields a flaming greataxe and whatnot. All of his feats are Shifter feats. Personality-wise, he's actually a somewhat calm individual. He only rages or shifts when he thinks he's got a tough fight on his hands.

The Human Fighter wears a chain shirt and wields a greatsword. He uses Power Attack and the like. The player is kind of new to roleplaying, so his character isn't very well-developed as of yet.

The Mystic Theurge is unarmored, no weapons, relies fully on his spellcasting. He's very quick to toss off a spell. He's somewhat bookish, and very sarcastic.

How about a Warblade/Fist of the Forest/Bloodclaw Master, a Setting Sun Sworsdage with Elusive Target and a Spellthief?

[TheCountAlucard]

How about a Warblade/Fist of the Forest/Bloodclaw Master, a Setting Sun Sworsdage with Elusive Target and a Spellthief?

Err, I'd rather not use ToB. I haven't read the book yet, you see... and while I'm sure a Spellthief would make a good opponent for the MT, that's not the flavor I'm looking for...

Biffoniacus_Furiou: The Fighter is actually TN. Not saying a flying paladin wouldn't be awesome; it just wouldn't fit against him.

[Tempest Fennac]

Bhilding on Siegel's idea, a Battle Sorcerer with Mithril Full Plate, Battle Caster and Medium Armour Proficiency would work (You could use an Outsider to get the armour proficiency). Giving them high Str and a 2-handed weapon would work well as well.

[Enlong]

To combat the Fighter, I'd say a well built Psychic Warrior.

Against the Cleric? Warlock. What better class to counter a master of Arcane and Divine magic than a spellcaster who doesn't really use either. Alternatively, an Artificer, for the same reason.

Against the Barbarian, I'd send in a Drunken Master.

[TheCountAlucard]

To combat the Fighter, I'd say a well built Psychic Warrior.

Once again, not using psionics.

Against the Cleric? Warlock. What better class to counter a master of Arcane and Divine magic than a spellcaster who doesn't really use either. Alternatively, an Artificer, for the same reason.

I'm starting to think Warlock might be a good choice; I'll look into it.

Against the Barbarian, I'd send in a Drunken Master.

I was thinking a knight or monk-type against the barbarian. I'll look into it.

[Thrawn183]

How about a knight against the fighter?

[Enlong]

For bonus points, make the Drunken Master a race as far removed from animals as possible. I would say Warforged, but I don't think anyone can believably explain how a Warforged Drunken Master works.

Hrm... against the Fighter... How about a Spellblade? (or whatever it's called. Not Hexblade but the other one) If I remember correctly, it combines martial ability with magic (usually infused into the sword, I think) and would make a nice thematic opposite for a pure Fighter.

Of course, I don't have the book with it in it, so I could be completely delusional about this class.

[Ascension]

For bonus points, make the Drunken Master a race as far removed from animals as possible. I would say Warforged, but I don't think anyone can believably explain how a Warforged Drunken Master works.

Drunk on oil! Or maybe overcharged with Energon!

Hrm... against the Fighter... How about a Spellblade? (or whatever it's called. Not Hexblade but the other one) If I remember correctly, it combines martial ability with magic (usually infused into the sword, I think) and would make a nice thematic opposite for a pure Fighter.

Duskblade, you mean?

[Enlong]

Drunk on oil! Or maybe overcharged with Energon!



Duskblade, you mean?

Hah!

Hmmm... if that's what Im thinking of, but probably not. I seem to remember some class that used swords, and was able to deliver spells (or spell-ish effects) through the blade. Help me out here?

[Ascension]

Hah!

Hmmm... if that's what Im thinking of, but probably not. I seem to remember some class that used swords, and was able to deliver spells (or spell-ish effects) through the blade. Help me out here?

That's the Duskblade. Although I think the Spellsword Prestige Class gives similar abilities. I would confirm both, but I'm away from books at the moment.

[streakster]

Hmm. I'd match the fighter against a duskblade, the Cleric against a Warlock/Binder, and the Shifter Barbarian vs a Warforged Assassin.

The duskblade wields a rapier. This puts a magical meleer who focuses on being precise vs a nonmagical meleer who expends accuracy for power.

The Warlock/Binder uses armor and Eldritch Glaive. Now he's an armored weapon wielder who uses two kinds of not really magic, vs an unarmored non-weapon wielder who uses two kinds of magic. As a bonus, Warlock/Binder is both thematically and mechanically a great combo.

The Warforged Assassin has his weapon enchanted with ice. Now he's an unnatural lawful character who relies on careful study and ice, vs a natural chaotic character who relies on charging wildly and fire.

I could've done better with ToB, but whateva.

[MisterSaturnine]

For the MT, you could also go with an Anima Mage (Binder/Arcane), or whatever that Warlock/Cleric multiclass is called.

The antithesis to the Shifter Barbarian could be a Warforged Monk. Except, you know...it'd have to be a Monk. Or you could make him a Shifter Monk who, despite the training to be all calm, he's very in touch with his ferality, and is prone to being out of control and savage.

For the fighter...um...maybe...

OK, I got nothing.

EDIT: Ninja'd on some points.

[NobleSavage]

Nononono, the fighter has to go up against a monk, balance the classes, see. If you want, throw in some Kensai for a little more fun.

I like the Warlock vs. Mystic Theurge idea. A lot. Try and engage the player in witty banter/sarcastic quips as they fight each other.

And to face off against the Barbarian I'd go with either something honor/law based, such as a Knight, Pally, or maybe even Dragon Shaman, or a sneaky fighter-type. Perhaps a Rogue, a Sneak-Attack Fighter variant, or a Swashbuckler. Whatever way you go, you should play him as particularly battle-hungry and aggressive out of combat, but calm and precise in combat.


Make sure to balance classes against each other, fighter and monk are about equal levels of suck (maybe go Samuri if you really want, keeps to the whole 'Brooding Warrior' theme the character is played as), Barb and his equivalents are all in the medium range, and the Warlock/MT... I dunno, other than MT is a trap, feels like whoever wins this matchup determines the outcome of the battle.

[TheCountAlucard]

Hmm. I'd match the fighter against a duskblade...

Wanting to also avoid a duskblade, because we've got another player who wants in who'd like to play a duskblade; I plan on throwing his character in after the "anti-party."

I do like the idea of a frost weapon against the barbarian, though.

I'm liking the idea of a warlock more and more, so I'm definitely gonna use a CG Warlock against the LE Mystic Theurge.

[Siegel]

Wanting to also avoid a duskblade, because we've got another player who wants in who'd like to play a duskblade; I plan on throwing his character in after the "anti-party."

I do like the idea of a frost weapon against the barbarian, though.

I'm liking the idea of a warlock more and more, so I'm definitely gonna use a CG Warlock against the LE Mystic Theurge.

There is a Frost Barbarian thing in the 'Frost Enviroment Book'

[Randel]

Mystic theurge counter could be either a druid or a straight wizard (or sorcerer)

Sally Green, human druid. An outgoing druid who loves butterflies, trees, soy-based foods and environmentalism. Says alot about feeling the 'cosmic love' and getting her chakras cleaned. Until she sees someone abusing nature in which case she transformes into a Dire Ape and smashes people with her fists while casting overpowered druid spells.

Her animal companion is an awakened Dire Ape who wears armor and wields a battleaxe... in fact he has levels in fighter and is the original parties fighter counterpart! He likes eating roast beef and jerky which he sneaks when Sally isn't looking. She thinks he just eats bananas.


Or you could have Magical Trevor, the greatest magician in ever and ever! He's a straight arcane caster, most likley a wizard. Or he could be a sorcerer to cook up your gizzard.
Trapping your party with a fiery wall (yeah yeah), or blast ya as he throws a fiery ball!
Divine casters got nothing that this guy can fear, cause he's got the magic to make em all disappear!
Be wary if you cross him your heroic endevor, cause nobodys as good as the Magical Trevoor!


Then have a paladin who is very emotional and speaks eloquently of honor and his rich backstory. For added irony he could be something like a dwarf or maybe a shifter.


Thus:

bookish mystic theurge -> preachy environmentalist druid or straight arcane caster who like using flashy spells and uses showman speach.

New player fighter -> The druids Dire Ape animal companion with fighter levels (he doensn't say much). or something else.

Shifter Barbarian -> emotional paladin of some sort.

Oddly, it might be tough to tell which of the anti-party is the barbarians double and which is the fighters double (since the dire ape fighter would look like a shigfter barbarian, or the eloquent paladin could counter the new players fighter). Maybe have those to kind of team up and go after the barbarian and fighter as a team so its hard to see who's paired off with who.

[TheCountAlucard]

Mystic theurge counter could be either a druid or a straight wizard (or sorcerer)

Nah, there's already a big involvement with a druid; she's the one who hires the anti-party.

Then have a paladin who is very emotional and speaks eloquently of honor and his rich backstory. For added irony he could be something like a dwarf or maybe a shifter.

Likewise, I already have a paladin in the deal; he's the Dread Necromancer's opponent.

I'd rather not use anything twice...