OOTS #597 - The Discussion Thread

[Enlong]

Yes, but since Elan is going to tell Hinjo, V is going to Plan B.

Anyway, V is annoyed at having to deal with finding Haley and rezzing Roy in the first place, since that was getting in the way of the entire mission to kill Xykon in the first place. (Forget the lich already?)

No, V is obsessed with finding Haley. Saving the world is second, and s/he's not in the mood for any third place goals.

[JonahFalcon]

Oh dear...

This is not cuddle toy territory...

Now I will hold out hope for temporary insanity here. Because there is little sense to this collection of behaviors.

But I get the impression this the author trying to beat a point in with a stick.

For V to be "cured" "in the nick of time" would be Bad Writing.

Back to the Kobold Oracle, shall I remind you no one is assured of having a happy ending save Elan. In fact, Haley may survive because she would be part of any "happy ending" for Elan.

Unless Rich is twisted and the "happy ending" for Elan is a dreadful ending, but told beautifully, since Elan loves good writing.

[SlightlyEvil]

Wow. New prediction: Comic #600 will be V finally snapping, and our heroes have to deal with him.

[Prowl]

Interesting turn of events.

I wonder how V is getting spells replenished without going into a trance.

[Laurentio II]

I really can't see anything new in Vaarsuvius acting. Intimidation against mates? Done. Losing control? Done and done again. Lose against Elan's stupidity and/or naivety? Done, and bought a shirt. Still, nice page.

Elan trying to act mature: fail.
Vaarsuvius trying to act badass: fail.
Belkar wins, and not really present too.

(by the way, what really scares me is Elan arguing with his own illusion...)

[Mozzik]

This really isn't that out of line with past V comments.

See for example the final panel in:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html

[Oracle_Hunter]

Unless Rich is twisted and the "happy ending" for Elan is a dreadful ending, but told beautifully, since Elan loves good writing.

"...and as Elan looked upon the final Gate, warped with evil magics, he reached out his hand, stretching past the blasted corpses of his friends and allies whose souls had been devoured by the Snarl. With the last of his strength, he activated the Rune of Sealing that would pull himself and all of Redcloak's forces into the prison dimension of the Snarl, locking themselves inside forever. As the blinding light of the magics flowed past and through his battered body, Elan smiled and said the last three words he would ever utter in this plane of existence:

Best. Death. Ever."

[eilandesq]

While the obvious inclination is to think that Elan is genuinely clueless here, there's one point against it--Elan is the most genre-savvy character around: he *has* to know what "red eyes" means. Combine that with the fact that we know he has a decent Bluff rank (from the attempt to scam a ride on the airship in Cliffport before Thog gave the game away), and he might just have been faking his cluelessness.

[EtherealStrife]

Sorry v-haters, but intimidation != evil.

Shifting topics, wasn't the reason behind the disintegrate to *avoid* a whole bunch of pointless strips? Just sayin'.

[Ganurath]

And don't judge V. so quickly. I still believe he/she's good, just tired/hurt/cursed - he/she might have been hit with some spell or some of his efforts to find Haley had unexpected side effects - he/she should be healed, not damned!

When was V ever Good? Always pegged me as True Neutral.

Edit @ EtherealStrife: Threatening to kill your teammates sounds pretty evil, though.

[busterswd]

Response to some comments in this thread:

"Self" buddy is not a typo, since they are talking about Belkar, the illusion reacts to it and pats himself on the back for not being an outright obstruction to the main quest.

V's behavior is pretty much what's been foreshadowed ever since the wedding. He's going insane with his quest not to find Haley, but to satiate his ego by proving that his power is supreme. Still upsetting to see him finally cross the line though from slightly aloof magical ally with a sense of camaraderie to obsessive, petulant **** with the power to blow up the world.



Prediction:

Spoiler

Show

Elan is faking stupidity in an attempt to defuse the situation.

[San Diablo]

V's acting like a guild leader (or interim one) for an MMO guild that's going through a severe rough patch. Though nominally dedicated to keeping the group together while key members are away, V's showing remarkably little in the way of remembering that it's important to keep the current members around, too. Frustrated and exhausted, V's patience is incredibly short. After a rest, V may apologize for what happened here and earlier, but for now is a danger to everyone around. Both Elan and especially Durkon are showing this stress, too, but not at the cost of doing the right thing. V's so convinced that V and V alone can save the day, that nobody else's problems matter, assuming V can be convinced that other people even have real problems, too.

I've been there, and I was just as ugly. No excuses for me, either. V's behavior is at best misguided neutral here, concerned (vaguely) only with personal friends, and far less so with the consequences for personal behavior.

It's also worth remembering that one of the major themes we've seen so far is the high price of self-delusion and obsession. It enslaved Redcloak and led directly to the slaughter of his people, it broke up the Orders' predecessors, it bound Eugene Greenhilt to the mortal plane, it keeps Nale from greatness, and it damned Miko. The only people so far to escape have done so because they eventually realized the cost was too great: Roy twice (with the bandits and with Miko), and Haley with Elan.

We've known V's going down the wrong path since meeting the Oracle. Even if V's not evil, the behavior's destructive and short-sighted.

[musicnerd]

That seriously scared me... wow.

I like to think that Elan was being dense on purpose in this instance.

[marquiz]

More than ever it piques my interest to know what happened to V after s/he casts the invisiblity during the battle at breach and the time he is next seen hiding among the crowd at ship.

Seems to have some... extreme physical and psychological differences for a reason... or unother... (typo intended)

[Jenx]

This was just awesome. That's all.

[San Diablo]

More than ever it piques my interest to know what happened to V after s/he casts the invisiblity during the battle at breach and the time he is next seen hiding among the crowd at ship.

Seems to have some... extreme physical and psychological differences for a reason... or unother... (typo intended)

That's a good point -- survivor's guilt may be a heavy contributor here, particularly given the direct and pointed proof that V's power was not great enough to save as many lives as would be hoped. V may have once been generally inclined to be good (V did feel guilt about being cruel to Elan, and seems opposed to Belkar for moral reasons), but such an incident would prove trying.

[dish]

I read this completely differently. I read this as a message from the Giant saying, "All those making predictions that V's cracking up and about to say those four famous words - well it isn't happening yet."

I seem to be in a minority here, so I'm probably completely wrong.

[Hamilkar]

Well V is going over the edge (more and more) and Elan is getting more and more reasonable (and i dare to say noble). The absence of Roy is actually good for Elan. But the absence of Harly is destructive for V.

Well i am happy for some heavy character development in recent times.

[Lizard Lord]

Ignorance is his class power source.

It's truer every strip.

Even V can't compete with that.

V is more vulnerable to said power source than anyone else in the comic. Sorta like how the gods are more vulnerable to the snarl.

[Holammer]

I'm waiting to hear folks justify V as "good"

Well, people do make the case that Belkar isn't chaotic Evil from time to time. We probably don't have to wait long!

Elan promising to tell Hinjo what happened will have consequences. With so many possible plot twists I await the big 600 with bated breath.

[M84]

Heyall,

V is definitely becoming Sith Lord material. Now he not only has veiny cracked skin, but glowing eyes of doom to go with it. He's even going so far as to threaten his own teammate.

I don't think Elan is practicing Obfuscating Stupidity; nor do I think he's being an idiot. I just think Elan's still idealistic enough that he just cannot comprehend V seriously threatening to kill him. With that possibility cut off from Elan's mind, he's just trying to come up with some other interpretation in the last few panels.

Really hoping the Order gets back together soon, or they might have to deal with another potential Big Bad before long.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I don't think Elan was bluffing. Nor is it entirely a manner of stupidity. I think his faith in the virtue of his companions is just so unshakable that he can't fathom that V would actually threaten to kill him.

Also, I would say that Roy is likely the most intimidating of the OOTS. Elan may have a far higher charisma, but Roy's is pretty decent, and Elan doesn't have Intimidate as a class skill.

[Dausuul]

There are only two possible openings. One where Elan attacks first, and one where Vaarsuvius does so.
If Vaarsuvius takes the first shot, it would kill Elan flat out. Disintegrate, Prismatic Spray, whatever, Elan's life is automatically forfeit.
Elan, romantic relationships aside, is a moral man. If he takes the first shot, it will not be a fatal one. However, Vaarsuvius' retaliation would be.
Quid quo pro.

Just a note, but quid pro quo, which means "something for something" and refers to exchanges of goods and services (especially informal or illicit ones), has nothing to do with this. I think the Latin phrase you were looking for is quod erat demonstrandum (QED), which means "that which was to be proven" and indicates the completion of a logical proof.

[Athaniar]

Speculation for #600:

Spoiler

Show

V will turn into a lich, eaither directly before or directly after he/she kills (either unintentionally or intentionally) some important character. He/she will then leave the party (the others will be pretty angry at him/her at the time) to pursure an independent career.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Just a note, but quid pro quo, which means "something for something" and refers to exchanges of goods and services (especially informal or illicit ones), has nothing to do with this. I think the Latin phrase you were looking for is quod erat demonstrandum (QED), which means "that which was to be proven" and indicates the completion of a logical proof.

Follow the link, good sir, for he masterfully paraphrased a most appropriate quote, but left in the punchline

EDIT: Interestingly, while "quid pro quo" is the improper turn of (latin) phrase for the ending of a proof, when one is talking about the inevitability of a counterattack, using the phrase "quid pro quo" is strangely appropriate

[Monsterknuffel]

A cookie for the Giant

Nice one, especially the last panel^^
At least somebody told V his oppinion. But V.... well is just too smart to understand Elan and his simple mind somehow.
I am scared that V becomes the new Miko

And.. gogo Elan vs V Threads

[silvadel]

Well -- V is doing all this for Haley. Elan has already proven to be unfaithful in spirit in the past with the leader of the bandits -- at least in V's mind. Hence V is reading more into things than V should. If anything V has always been very protective of Haley.

Maybe V has already given something very important up in this search and that grated on V.

Also the first real threat was from Elan here.

[Oslecamo]

Wow, V is really looking more and more LG with each strip!

Killing tied up people who he doesn't even know who they are, asking if they get exp for the death of other important NPCs, and threatening his own allies of obliteration.


Yep, clearly LG. A paragon of virtue and honor.

[Prowl]

V is definitely becoming Sith Lord material. Now he not only has veiny cracked skin, but glowing eyes of doom to go with it. He's even going so far as to threaten his own teammate.

As someone else pointed out above, this isn't the first time V has threatened his teammates, as per strip #186, and giving the black dragon permission to eat them if they did not obey V's wishes in strip #185 wasn't exactly nice either.

Then again, there was something a lot more direct and personal and out of proportion about this time around. Whether that represents a permanent personality shift or simply a continuation of the 'hasn't tranced in a while' situation remains to be seen.

[Georlik]

Strong in V the Dark Side is, hmm...