[3.5] For hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee...building a harpooner

[Brauron]

Kind of a long story about how this came about. Discussing with my DM weapons in the PHB that we feel don't see enough use, he started telling me about his idea for a javelin-throwing fighter who just moved around the battlefield, being impossible to hit (Dodge, Mobility, high Dex, etc.) and driving javelin after javelin into an enemy.

I took it and started working on it as a side project, eventually creating something fairly similar to a Greek Peltast.

But then I thought to myself, "what if I replaced the javelins with harpoons?" A quick check of the Arms and Equipment Guide netted (pun intended) me stats for harpoons.

So then I was thinking about building a harpooner character as a sort of non-magical battlefield control. Driving harpoons into enemies and then using the trailing guide rope to restrict their movements, making them easier targets for my more damage-output-based companions.

So now I'm doing kind of a level-by-level layout of feats, classes, etc., so if/when my current character dies I can make the harpooner quickly and easily. Here's what I have so far:

Human

LVL 1: Barbarian 1: EWP (Harpoon), Point Blank Shot
LVL 2: Fighter 1: Brutal Throw
LVL 3: Fighter 2: Dodge, Mobility
LVL 4: Fighter 3: No feat, boost Strength
LVL 5: Fighter 4: Shot on the Run
LVL 6: Fighter 5: Power Attack
LVL 7: Fighter 6: Power Throw
LVL 8: Fighter 7: No feat, boost Strength
LVL 9:Fighter 8: Far Shot, Ranged Pin

I'm not really looking to be massively optimized (as should be obvious by class selection and basic concept) but what do you folks think?

[The_Werebear]

Pick up Precise Shot and Quick Draw, possibly through flaws. Precise Shot will prevent you from killing your allies when firing into melee (and you will end up firing into melee). Quick Draw allows you to make iterative attacks with thrown weapons, as well as to draw, move, and shoot. Since you aren't going scout for any of it, and can stay still, this is even more important. Shot on the Run might be handy too, if you have the feats for it.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Firing into melee only applies a -4 penalty to hit. There's no chance of hitting your allies, unless they're grappling the enemy. (And considering you're Ahab, you're the only one likely to be grappling the whale.)

Precise Shot is still good, though, since it removes that penalty. I'd ditch the awful Dodge, Mobility, and Shot on the Run, and pick up Quick Draw (an absolute must, since it lets you full attack with thrown weapons) and Precise Shot. Get Ranged Pin or Far Shot earlier, in place of Shot on the Run.

[streakster]

Hmm. Would the Bloodstorm Blade from the TOB work with this idea?

[Talya]

You get a cookie for quoting Melville in context.

(Most people who quote that seems to think it was coined by Gene Roddenbury.)

[Adumbration]

There are also stats for harpoon in Frostburn, I think, if your DM insists on 3.5 source.

[Brauron]

I'd prefer not to go any ToB routes. I don't particularly care for ToB, and neither does my DM. Just not our respective cups of tea.

So at the moment the character's prospective feats look like this:

LVL 1: Barbarian 1: EWP (Harpoon), Point Blank Shot
LVL 2: Fighter 1: Brutal Throw
LVL 3: Fighter 2: Precise Shot, Quick Draw
LVL 4: Fighter 3: No feat, boost Strength
LVL 5: Fighter 4: Far Shot
LVL 6: Fighter 5: Power Attack
LVL 7: Fighter 6: Power Throw
LVL 8: Fighter 7: No feat, boost Strength
LVL 9:Fighter 8: ?, ?

Like I said, I don't know when I'll get a chance to use him, so this is just a guide for me when I do make him...I have a feeling the campaign won't go past 9th or 10th level.

My GM has already approved the A&E Harpoon.

Yayyyy, cookie! Yeah, I quoted Melville in context...actually, one of my players in my Call of Cthulhu game last year did so as well, as his character continued to fight against a monster several dozen times his size right up until the moment of his death in its tentacles.

[Tsotha-lanti]

(Most people who quote that seems to think it was coined by Gene Roddenbury.)

srsly? But the whole point was that it was a Moby **** quote! That's the deep symbolism.

Edit:
I think a good litmus test for when a forum's censorship is too harsh is when you can't write the name of a literary classic.

At least Pocketwatch would no longer have to suffer from having his name filled with *s... right? But what about those chinks in your armor?

[streakster]

I'd prefer not to go any ToB routes. I don't particularly care for ToB, and neither does my DM. Just not our respective cups of tea.

Hmm. Well, I know there is an Exotic Weapon Master class somewhere.

[AmberVael]

Okay, here is one really nasty cheesy thing that is technically possible but a DM might disallow.

The harpoon, as you've no doubt noticed, deals the same amount of damage going out as it does going in (unless you make a heal check).

So if you put Returning on your harpoon... >.>

It's kind of pushing at the rules, but it does seem to indicate that you could get your damage twice.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Oh yes, good catch. I think the Exotic Weapon Master (from Complete Warrior) may even have throwing weapon abilities. Check it out and consider it.

[Ascension]

I know of a 3rd party Peltast class, by the way. I can link to it if you'd like me to.

EDIT: Master Thrower might help, too, but you'd probably need rogue levels for that, which is kind of contrary to your concept.

[sonofzeal]

If your purpose is immobilizing, try to pick up the Fell Shot psi feat to be able to make those throws touch attacks and snare heavily-armored targets.

[streakster]

Here you go! Exotic Weapon Master guide.

Harpoon Thread.

[Human Paragon 3]

Yeah, one or more levels of exotic weapon fighter would net you close-quarters-ranged fighting, which lets you avoid AoOs, ranged dissarm, which might be nice, and, depending how liberal your DM is, some other thing like making trip attacks with your harpoon (or its rope).

[Brauron]

Vael -- an interesting idea, but not one I'm likely to go for. I'm trying to use the harpoons to restrain an enemy, moreso than to damage them.

Ascension -- I may look into that Peltast class another time. Heh, we joke that my D&D characters have "Do Not Resurrect" tags, because I'm so full of character concepts that when a character dies I'd rather make a new one.

[overduegalaxy]

If you want to snare multiple enemies at once, you might consider getting your harpoon enchanted with Exit Wounding.

It'd be messy, but it'd get the job done.

[Meat Shield]

If you want to snare multiple enemies at once, you might consider getting your harpoon enchanted with Exit Wounding.

It'd be messy, but it'd get the job done.

Ohhhhh! Yes, this one! SHISH-KA-BOBS!

[Glyde]

I have a shirtless harpoon sailor dude. So far just Fighter 8 / Unstoppable Force 1 http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...toppable+Force


He's all about power throw, riding his shark, and lots of ranks in swim.

But yeah, Unstoppable force 1 gets con modifier to AC, which is always good if you want to go for the burly shirtless chest hair covered sailor. <3

[Person_Man]

1) Pick a large race. A nice DM will let Half-Giant or Goliath qualify, thanks to powerful build. A stickler DM will make you be a Lycanthrope, Minatour, Warforged Charger, Centaur, or similar large race. Try to minimize LA and racial hit die. Savage Species is filled with them. There are also a bunch online at the WotC site and crystalkeep.

2) Take levels of a psionic class and Overchannel. If you have racial hit die, you might qualify for Warmind or a similar fast progression PrC. Your goal is the Expansion. The augmented version increases your size category by +2, from Large to Gargantuan.

3) Take Monkey Grip. Normally this feat sucks wildly. But it lets you wield a weapon one size large then normal. So you throw Colossal harpoons.

4) For extra fun, take levels of Hulking Hurler from Complete Warrior. Take Overburdened Heave. As a full round action, you can throw a weapon two size categories larger then normal. I'm not sure what the size would be, but I think the damage would be around 16d8.

5) But a returning harpoon. Now your (100 ft long?) harpoon automatically comes out after it goes in, dealing the same damage coming out as it went in.

[Talya]

1) Pick a large race. A nice DM will let Half-Giant or Goliath qualify, thanks to powerful build. A stickler DM will make you be a Lycanthrope, Minatour, Warforged Charger, Centaur, or similar large race. Try to minimize LA and racial hit die. Savage Species is filled with them. There are also a bunch online at the WotC site and crystalkeep.

2) Take levels of a psionic class and Overchannel. If you have racial hit die, you might qualify for Warmind or a similar fast progression PrC. Your goal is the Expansion. The augmented version increases your size category by +2, from Large to Gargantuan.

3) Take Monkey Grip. Normally this feat sucks wildly. But it lets you wield a weapon one size large then normal. So you throw Colossal harpoons.

4) For extra fun, take levels of Hulking Hurler from Complete Warrior. Take Overburdened Heave. As a full round action, you can throw a weapon two size categories larger then normal. I'm not sure what the size would be, but I think the damage would be around 16d8.

5) But a returning harpoon. Now your (100 ft long?) harpoon automatically comes out after it goes in, dealing the same damage coming out as it went in.

You're an evil, evil, man. And I forget if monkey grip works that way...

[The Glyphstone]

Ahem.

MONKEY GRIP DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!
Thank you, Morbo.

Powerful Build and Monkey Grip don't stack, sadly.

[Person_Man]

Powerful Build and Monkey Grip don't stack, sadly.

I know, I was assuming his DM would force him to play a large race.

[Prometheus]

Animate Rope, Control Object, or Animate Objects might be a nice spell-effect to put on the rope of the harpoon. Animate Rope would let you trip or entangle foes between you and your target (it would entangle your target, except that it is already entangled). Control Object will cause you object to have a slam attack while it is there and can also be used to move your harpoon or rope such as have it return to you (or possibly provide you with a bonus to your strength check, make the Heal DC higher, or pull itself out). Animate Objects gives your rope a constrict attack and give it more Hp.

[Hzurr]

*Sigh* That entire movie was nothing but one giant Moby D reference. Although I'm pretty sure the White Whale never said "KHAAAAAAANNN!!!!!!"


Back on topic:

One thing you might want to consider once you start enchanting is to get a vicious harpoon. You only take damage from it when you first throw it, but the harpooned person takes damage pulling it out equal to the damage they received when getting it stuck in. Essentially, you get that nice 2d6 bonus twice, while only taking the damage once.

[Brauron]

I have a shirtless harpoon sailor dude. So far just Fighter 8 / Unstoppable Force 1 http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...toppable+Force


He's all about power throw, riding his shark, and lots of ranks in swim.

But yeah, Unstoppable force 1 gets con modifier to AC, which is always good if you want to go for the burly shirtless chest hair covered sailor. <3

My...GOD. I am now officially in love with this PrC. I may have to find a way to apply it to my current character.