Effective lich BBEG build(s)

[NephandiMan]

So I've just finished reading Start of Darkness, and now I'm interested in using a lich BBEG in a future campaign. I thought a sorcerer would be a natural choice, given that the save DCs for lich's special attacks are Cha-based, but then I realized how useless those attacks were, and thought a different build might serve better.

I'm interested in both core and non-core variants, and although the basic rules are 3.5, feel free to use both 3.0 and 3.5 sourcebooks for non-core builds. Although it's intended as the final boss of the campaign, and hence will have 20 class levels to play around with (to make it a CR 24), I'm also interested if you have an idea for a build that would be sound regardless of class level.

So what do you guys think would work best? A druid gone horribly horribly wrong? Batman: the Liching? DMM clericzilla of the God of Card-Carrying Villains? In case anyone needs it, here's the lich template.

[Adumbration]

If you like, you could take a cleric or a druid and use the Walker in the Waste prestige class from Sandstorm to create a formidable Dry Lich. I've always loved that prestige class.

[Saph]

I actually made one of these for my Phantasy Star IV campaign to represent Lashiec. I went for a Sorcerer with Incantatrix levels, going for Split Rays and Empowered Enervations (not much use in the hands of PCs, but deadly against them). He also used Ruin Delver's Fortune and Greater Mirror Image to negate most attacks against him. The character was 12th-level, +2 CR for the Lich template.

Worked pretty well. Annoyed the hell out of the party, because cure spells don't do anything to heal the effects of Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Clumsiness, and Enervation. He didn't have all that much HP, though, so once they finally got up close and hung onto him, he went down after a few rounds.

- Saph

[jcsw]

Lich DMM Cleric! Using dynamic priest to change the casting stat to Cha!

[NephandiMan]

@ Saph: Yeah, the lack of hit points is one of my major concerns for a sorc lich. No Con score + low Fort save = Disintegrate BAD. Even if it's not metamagicked.

@jcsw: Oooo, nice! A cleric lich would go far toward removing my concerns with low Fort saves and low HP (thanks to spontaneous Inflict spells). One major obstacle to that was the MAD, but if I can make Cha my casting stat... *rubs hands together and cackles like Skeletor*

[streakster]

A warlock/binder pixie Lich.

Good luck fighting the invisible, high AC, flying, small, untrackable pixie lich with a 20% miss chance against ranged attacks. And DR. And SR. And Dodge.

Use some Chausables, an Eldritch Sceptre, and the Hellfire Warlock/Bound Vestige of Ability Heal to boost damage significantly. Add in even more defense with more invocations, items, and so on - Flee the scene teleports away and leaves an illusion of you behind. Darkness can held fuddle even mages who can see you. Chained Utterdark blasts heal you and your undead minions. Dispells strip the party of buffs (see invisible, especially) and Shatter takes their equipment. You're a warlock, so you have UMD as well. Feel free to add in spells to this whole mess.

Now, you do have to bend the rules a little - Pixies can't be liches, I know - but if you do it (or find a lich version that can be applied to a pixie), it will be a lich to remember.

[potatocubed]

Wacky Idea Time: How about a lich who isn't? He's not even undead. He (somehow?) pretends to be a lich so people who come to take him down tool up on anti-undead magic and get either surprised or terrified when none of it has any effect.

Bonus points if you make him a warblade.

Or... for a slightly less wacky idea, a lich who surgically alters his fanatically loyal followers' appearance to resemble himself (i.e. corpsy), creating a whole bunch of 'fake liches' with a diverse array of classes and abilities. Some are undead, some aren't. At least one is an actual lich. Now you can have fun with a whole raft of PC-slaying builds.

I'm not so hot on actual builds, though... would a spectral hand build work? Can you discharge touch spells + a paralysing touch at the same time?

[Fiendish_Dire_Moose]

A decent Lich comes from a cleric with the magic domain and the death domain. Atleast, in my experience.
Another way to go is just make it a wizard/sorcerer with a higher HD.
Or, if you're going high enough, make it both.

[Lochar]

Favored Soul lich, who's spent the past thousand years after a kingdom was killed raising the town and awakening the hundreds of thousands of people, and making them believe that this was the only way for the to survive a plague.

[Yakk]

@ Saph: Yeah, the lack of hit points is one of my major concerns for a sorc lich. No Con score + low Fort save = Disintegrate BAD. Even if it's not metamagicked.

Um, they get to change their caster HD to d12s, don't they?

[Waspinator]

I kind of like "Blighter" Druid Liches, like the one from Red Hand of Doom.

[Saph]

Um, they get to change their caster HD to d12s, don't they?

Yeah, but they also lose their Con score. So a lich has about the same HP as an equal-HD sorcerer with a Con of 18, and the +2 CR effectively drops their HP further. Not absolutely terrible, but not great either.

Liches have lots of immunities and magical protections, but if a party can get through those and deal even a moderate amount of damage, the lich won't last long. The only reason my Lashiec-lich survived for long was due to a sky-high AC and using Greater Mirror Image to throw off targeting.

- Saph

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Yeah, but they also lose their Con score. So a lich has about the same HP as an equal-HD sorcerer with a Con of 18, and the +2 CR effectively drops their HP further. Not absolutely terrible, but not great either.

Liches have lots of immunities and magical protections, but if a party can get through those and deal even a moderate amount of damage, the lich won't last long. The only reason my Lashiec-lich survived for long was due to a sky-high AC and using Greater Mirror Image to throw off targeting.

- Saph

Which is what the Phylactery is for. Facing Batman is bad, him coming back a week later to kill you specifically is worse.

[arguskos]

As someone who abuses liches immensely, here's the key tricks to remember:

1. Make them arcane casters. They don't HAVE to be, but trust me, it's nice, since arcane magic brings tons of spell versatility and power to the table.

2. Think up their escape plans before you do ANYTHING else. This is vital. Remember, liches come back (thanks phylactery's!), so any lich worth his salt is going to have escape/revenge/rebuilding plans. Do some very clever things with the phylactery, btw.

3. Pick spells. I like making my liches use a dangerous environment to their advantage (Energy Immunity [fire]+Overland Flight+an active volcano; incorporality+thunderstorms; stuff like that) and then just use attrition to run the party down. If you'd rather go with a "I BLOW IT UP" caster, that's cool too, just be damned sure to give him a good number of buffs, so he doesn't wipe in one round (even w/ phylactery regeneration, it's annoying to have the BBEG wipe before he goes).

4. Liches are SMART. They are ancient, they learn, and they are not to be trifled with. Play them as such. Don't pull your punches, just make and play the best damn caster you can imagine, and then make/play them EVEN SMARTER.

I'll be back later with more specific lich tips (also, these have been tested with at least 30 liches I've run over the years ). And by later, I mean an hour later. Meaning right now!

Ok, here's a good example of a sorcerer lich I used earlier:
Spells per day: 6/9/8/8/8/7/4
Spells known: All/5/5/4/3/2/1
Spell DC: 19+level
0-All
1- magic missile, shield, mage armor, nerveskitter, grease
2- scorching ray, web, spider climb, glitterdust, distracting ray
3- fireball, fly, haste, dispel magic
4- dimension door, enervation, ruin delver's fortune
5- firebrand, overland flight
6- disintegrate

This was a level 12 sorcerer lich. He was quite blasty, though he wasn't stupid. His personal magic items included scrolls of teleport, greater mirror image, and orb of force. He also carried a rod of quicken spell (up to level 6). Kelvan here gave a party of level 12 characters a good run for their money, and killed one of them right out. They eventually beat him (ie. made him run away with a teleport spell), but when he returned later, it was pretty ugly. I'd consider this as a good base for a blaster sorcerer lich. Key spells:
-Nerveskitter. Any sorcerer caster should take this. It just great.
-Scorching Ray. It's a good damage spell, IMO.
-Haste. Why WOULDN'T you take this spell??
-Ruin Delver's Fortune. Best. Sorcerer. Spell. Ever. It gives immediate Cha-based bonuses to saves and stuff.
-Firebrand. This is an amazing AoE damage spell. If you care, just use energy substitution to get around the fire damage. For sorcerers, it's really great, since they can spam it like no tomorrow.

This is of course, all personal preference.

-argus

[streakster]

If the lich gets minions, take a look at the Corpsecrafting rules in the Homebrew forums. They make undead minions so much more fun...

[Dr Bwaa]

arguskos has some really good points. I'd just like to second the "do clever things with the phylactery" bit.

And Lochar, that's gross, in an awesome way

[SadisticFishing]

My lich, Xavian, was one of the most fun and headache inducing fights I've ever seen. Attempting to role play 37 int was very... yeah.

I must have done something right though, cuz I won. Even though he had a Xanatos Gambit set up, and was planning to use... yeah. Whoops, but one teleported away and rez'ed the group.

The build: LE Grey Elf Wizard 3/Binder 1/Anima Mage 10/Archmage 3 (CR20, ECL22).

Grab Quicken and Chain Spell, and go nuts. Maw of Chaos, Prismatic Spheres, yeah. With a Monk belt and other good gear, his AC was 50, touch was something like 40..

Also, binding Focalor and Chucoplocs gave everyone -4 to saves if they were beside him and didn't have Mind Blank up. Turns out my level 20 group wasn't very intelligent, and they actually managed to NOT have any immunity to fear or mind effecting...

Banned Evocation and specialized in Divination.

[RTGoodman]

Bard Lich.

It can be done, and I have done it. It might not be optimized, but it is pretty cool just to say you'd thrown your party against one!

[arguskos]

arguskos has some really good points. I'd just like to second the "do clever things with the phylactery" bit.

And Lochar, that's gross, in an awesome way

After playing liches and slaughtering players for nearly 10 years with them, I'd like to think I know a thing or two. Thanks though.

Actually, I might do a "Lich Handbook" I guess. I really like liches, and I've found lots of people really don't use liches too well (too many people neglect to use their strengths, like the phylactery or anything).

-argus

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Bard Lich.

It can be done, and I have done it. It might not be optimized, but it is pretty cool just to say you'd thrown your party against one!

I always wanted to make a circle of Liches, each with a different focus and with each having one of the others as a Phylactery. At the final showdown there would be 8 Liches, with the original Lich circle being a Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard, Warmage, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Archivist, Artificer, Druid, Favored Soul, and Cleric, and the party having killed 3 of them(the Beguiler, Artificer, and Favored Soul). The party about level 18, the Liches between Cr 16 and 17. And when the dust settles, the party discovers notes mentioning a 12th, an "Enlightened Fist", who they must track down and kill before 1d10 days are up, giving me an excuse to move them to the area I want them for the next quest.

[arguskos]

I always wanted to make a circle of Liches, each with a different focus and with each having one of the others as a Phylactery. At the final showdown there would be 8 Liches, with the original Lich circle being a Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard, Warmage, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Archivist, Artificer, Druid, Favored Soul, and Cleric, and the party having killed 3 of them(the Beguiler, Artificer, and Favored Soul). The party about level 18, the Liches between Cr 16 and 17. And when the dust settles, the party discovers notes mentioning a 12th, an "Enlightened Fist", who they must track down and kill before 1d10 days are up, giving me an excuse to move them to the area I want them for the next quest.

I've actually done something like this. I had a circle of of 8 specialist wizard liches, with a 9th, generalist archmage that led them. The party eventually had to face down all 9 at once. THAT was a great encounter, and the party only died once (they had contingent True Rez spells, don't ask how).

Though, your idea is way better (lots more fun liches and uniqueness to go around). I may do that soon, actually.

-argus

[RebelRogue]

Bard Lich.

It can be done, and I have done it. It might not be optimized, but it is pretty cool just to say you'd thrown your party against one!

I started a campaign centered on one of these (a doppleganger too), but it never got very far. I had fleshed out a lot of good basic ideas, though (too long to post now).

Anyway, for total weirdness you could make a 22th level Ranger a lich! That would be pretty strange indeed (and hardly optimised), but it's so outlandish I have to use it someday...

[NEO|Phyte]

an Epic assassin could become a lich as well. Not quite as off the wall as a ranger, but still a somewhat strange mix, although the racial bonuses to hide and move silently would be quite welcome, I imagine.

[mostlyharmful]

Anyway, for total weirdness you could make a 22th level Ranger a lich! That would be pretty strange indeed (and hardly optimised), but it's so outlandish I have to use it someday...

Give it Practised spellcaster and an Ioun stone and it'd be fine at level 13, barely above a full caster

[RebelRogue]

an Epic assassin could become a lich as well. Not quite as off the wall as a ranger, but still a somewhat strange mix, although the racial bonuses to hide and move silently would be quite welcome, I imagine.

That is a great idea too. Actually, as I read it, an assasin has a caster level equal to his Assasin level (he casts spells just like a bard!) With Practised Spellcaster, you only need 7 assasin levels to go lich! That's as early as level 12.

[ocato]

If the game wasn't still going, I'd tell you about the awesome Lich I made for my current PBP game. He's scary. However, instead, I will simply post that I totally have a lich BBEG and I'm excited about him. Also, to my players: Booga Booga!

[NephandiMan]

These are some very good suggestions - in fact, one of the things I like about this forum is that even ideas that I most likely won't use or that are somewhat off-topic (for example, potatocubed's non-lich lich) tend to be both creative and stimulating. To everyone who contributed, my sincerest thanks.

Also, arguskos, I hope you end up making that lich guide - I know that I for one would like to read it.

EDIT: I might as well add this next question to this thread, rather than creating a new one: is there any reason I couldn't make my lich's entire hideout its phylactery? (By hideout, I mean the place where the lich will go when destroyed). Although easy to locate, at least when compared to a Tiny metal box, it would be considerably harder to destroy.

[Fishy]

Hmm. If you wanted to be disgustingly unfair, a lich with one level of Psion (Nomad) and the Personal Space Alternate Class Feature could store his phylactery in an extradimensional storage space that only he can access.

While we're on Psionics, I have absolutely no idea what happens when a Cerebremancer Lich uses Mind Switch or True Mind Switch and then cuts the throat of the body he's stealing.

How about a Duskblade Lich? Free Quickened spells give you something to do with your swift actions, which is always important for a BBEG. Give him some sort of natural weapon, and he can deliver a touch spell, a paralysis attempt, and a negative energy blast with one claw. MAD is kind of a pain, but something like Changeling Duskblade13/Swashbuckler3/Warshaper4 might be awesome.

A Hexblade might be a scary Lich. You get Charisma spellcasting like a sorcerer, plus godly saves, plus the ability to throw around massive debuffs. Take the Dark Companion variant, give someone -8 to saves, smack them with a paralyzing touch, then move on to the next guy.

[Doresain]

if you want something that the PCs are really going to have trouble fighting, make a diviner/tainted scholar...make it to where he has been doing nothing but casting spells for the past week...

[Kaihaku]

I actually made one of these for my Phantasy Star IV campaign to represent Lashiec. I went for a Sorcerer with Incantatrix levels, going for Split Rays and Empowered Enervations (not much use in the hands of PCs, but deadly against them). He also used Ruin Delver's Fortune and Greater Mirror Image to negate most attacks against him. The character was 12th-level, +2 CR for the Lich template.

That officially makes you very cool. What did you stat out Zio as?

Worked pretty well. Annoyed the hell out of the party, because cure spells don't do anything to heal the effects of Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Clumsiness, and Enervation. He didn't have all that much HP, though, so once they finally got up close and hung onto him, he went down after a few rounds.

- Saph

And well it should have, unless you power level that's one of the harder fights in the game.