(3.5) Planned Houserules: Putting a Leash on Magic, and Other Stuff

[The Glyphstone]

I'm about to start running a higher-level (14th or so) game, but I know all too well how dominating casters can be at that level. So, I've got a list of houserules I'm planning to implement - mostly spell modifications and a hefty nerfing of Metamagic, but I also took the opportunity to fix a few other little things that have bugged me. Anyone mind giving a bit of commentary before I give this to the players? Did I miss anything glaringly obvious on caster dominance, or implement some ridiculously broken other rule?

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First-hand and second-hand experience has shown me how dominating spellcaster classes can be at high levels. Unrestricted, an ordinary wizard or sorcerer can easily hog the spotlight. In the hands of a really skilled player, that wizard or sorcerer can make the entire rest of the party irrelevant. So, I have some house rules I use to keep them in check, and give the noncasters a chance to shine as well. They’re mostly small changes, so unless you’re deliberately trying to dominate the game, you probably won’t notice the difference in most cases. And while I’m at it, I’ve also patched a few minor things that have always bugged me about the game.

SPELLS
The following spells are removed from the game entirely: Lesser Celerity, Celerity, Greater Celerity, Solid Fog, Acid Fog, Mordekainen’s Magnificent Mansion.

Mordekainen’s Disjuction: Modified to function as Greater Dispel Magic with no cap on the bonus to dispel checks, to a maximum of your caster level.

Moment of Prescience: Cannot be used to boost Initiative checks.

Gate: The calling function of this spell is modified to function as Planar Binding with no cap on the maximum HD of the called creature or creatures, to a maximum of your caster level. Each creature must be bargained with separately.

Astral Projection: Consumable items created by this spell are nonfunctional (scrolls, wands, potions).

Alter Self is renamed Alter Shape, and can only be used to adopt forms of the humanoid type, regardless of the caster’s original type.

Polymorph is removed and replaced with Shapeshift (X). Shapeshift functions as Polymorph, but can only transform the caster or target into a single creature, chosen at the time the spell is researched or learned. You cannot cast a Shapeshift spell of a creature with more HD than your caster level. A caster can learn multiple Shapeshift spells, each of which is tied to a different creature. The Trollshape/Dragonshape spells from Complete Mage are good examples.

Shapechange: Now requires a move action to change forms, instead of a free action.

Creatures with spell-like abilities that require XP cannot be compelled to use them on another creature’s behalf. This includes dominated or charmed creatures, as well as creatures bound via Planar Ally, Planar Binding, or Gate.

Teleportation Spells: As a campaign-world specific rule, teleportation magic functions very differently. See the end of this document for a more complete explanation.

FEATS:

Arcane Thesis is removed.

Any spell with a metamagic effect applied will always have an effective level of at least +1 per metamagic effect applied, regardless of modifiers or reductions. Metamagics with a level modifier of +0 are not subject to this rule.

To cast a metamagic spell, you must be able to cast spells of the level that the spell would be without any reductions or modifiers.

Dodge: Is now a flat +1 AC bonus versus all opponents. Less bookkeeping.

Mobility: No longer has Dodge as a prerequisite. Makes no sense anyways.

Spring Attack: No longer has Dodge as a prerequisite. If Mobility doesn’t need it, neither does Spring Attack.

Natural Spell is now a Metamagic Feat (+2 effective level). A Natural Spell can be cast by a druid in Wildshape, or another character in a form that lacks limbs and/or the ability to speak.

Greater/Improved/Two-Weapon Defense: Feat bonuses rolled into Two-Weapon Fighting tree. TWF characters need all the help I can get.

SKILLS:

Concentration: Casting Defensively now grants the character AC = Concentration check instead of its normal effects for the purposes of any AoO triggered by the spell being cast. I greatly dislike flat DCs that never, ever change.

Intimidate: You may substitute your Strength modifier in place of your Charisma modifier to intimidate someone.

Tumble: Tumbling now grants the character AC = Tumble check instead of its normal effects for the purposes of any AoO triggered by the character’s movement. I greatly dislike flat DCs that never, ever change.

Diplomacy: Significantly changed, if you plan on using it, read these rules.
http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFp...kegKhONNF.html (Modification: The Base DC is equal to 15+the difference between the character using the skill and that of highest-level character in the target group).

CLASSES:
The Monk exceeded his maximum age category and died a natural death. He cannot be resurrected. If you want to play a kung-fu master type character, I will direct you to the Unarmed Swordsage variant from Tome of Battle.

Paladins: I’m using Fax Celestis’s homebrew Paladin rewrite, found here. I like it, and it’s more flexible than the rigidly defined code of the normal class. If you want to play a paladin, let me know and we can work it out beforehand. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33551

Sorcerer: Gains Eschew Materials as a bonus feat at 1st level. At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels, gains a bonus Metamagic or Draconic Heritage feat. Why should wizards get all the fun stuff?

The Incantatrix and Dweomerkeeper prestige classes are removed.


TELEPORTATION:
Firstly, a short explanation. Teleporting magic is sort of iconic in fantasy fiction – there are exceptions, but it’s somewhat common to see wizards in stories who can teleport from place to place. However , it makes for bad adventure design…there are no random encounters, ambushes, or interesting side diversions if the party wizard just teleports everyone from origin to destination without stopping in between. So, I’ve taken it in a different direction, by incorporating another fantasy trope, the idea of magical ‘ley lines’. These are invisible patterns of magical energy that stretch all across the world, emanating power. Where they cross each other, it creates ‘nodes’, reservoirs of power that can act as attractors to loosed power. The in-game effect of this is that teleportation magic of all sorts is inherently bound to these nodes – you can only teleport to a node, and only very specialized casters can teleport from anywhere except a node. In this particular world, nodes are controlled by the Wayfarer’s Guild. Most nodes in civilized lands have Waystations built on them, and the Guild charges a small toll to anyone emerging from or departing through a node. Upsetting the Guild or openly defying them is a very bad idea, unless you enjoy walking, a lot – they are very rich, and very powerful.

Locate Node – 1st level spell, gives a direction and distance to the nearest teleportation node.

Teleport – 5th level spell, allows movement from any node to any other node. You cannot travel to a node you have never seen before.

Greater Teleport – 7th level spell, allows movement from anywhere to any node. This spell is very highly guarded by the Wayfarer’s Guild, and almost exclusively known to its member wizards.

[ocato]

The Monk exceeded his maximum age category and died a natural death. He cannot be resurrected. If you want to play a kung-fu master type character, I will direct you to the Unarmed Swordsage variant from Tome of Battle.

If I was in this game, I'd probably bark about this. I like the monk. If I wanted to play a "kung-fu master type character" I would want to play a monk. It's up to me to make my character strong, and I'll consider the inherent weaknesses of the monk and make those decisions for myself. If you kids and your battlin' tomes want to do your business, that's your own decision, don't force it on me. Granted, my goal here is to anticipate complaints and criticisms so that you can take them into consideration before revealing them to your players and nothing more. If your players are all up ons some ToB, then this is obviously ignorable.

Also, since you want to mess with casters, make every arcane full casting prestige class lose 1 level of casting (preferably the first). A simple fix. Divine too, maybe. Divine casters aren't quite as broken typically, if for no other reason than they are easy to unbreak (no Divine Metamagic Persist Spell).

[AstralFire]

Strength to Intimidate makes no sense. If you want to allow your martial-minded people to do something physically impressive to get a circumstance bonus, sure, but "I have muscles" is not automatically imposing. Frex, if I carefully examine my brother-in-law's biceps, I will notice they are the size of my freakin' head. However, he is very jovial and laidback and wears loose-fitting shirts, so I don't, and when I do I'm not freaked out.

[Temp.]

That your players can't balance their own party saddens me.

[Riffington]

1. Save-or-lose spells are still extremely strong.
2. Let mobility stack with tumbling.
3. No amount of rules will change the fact that Diplomacy shouldn't actually have predefined rules.

[AstralFire]

That your players can't balance their own party saddens me.

This too. I'm all for giving more fun stuff to weak classes like the Monk, but in-group toys should rarely be taken away if there is a good non-cheese way to use them. Using lots of houserules to patch holes in the real rules often adds for a lot of bookkeeping and confusion and a lowered level of disinterest.

Also, while I personally try to talk anyone who wants to use a Monk into using a UA Swordsage (amusingly, two of the holdouts came around on their own as they got bored of the monk anyway, even with me doing everything I could to make it more fun for them) it should remain an option for anyone who wants to take that choice.

[MeklorIlavator]

I think that Str should be able to provide a circumstance bonus to Intimidate(throw me up against a wall and I would be more inclined to talk), but Cha is the key ability.

Also, I would probably make natural spell a +1 instead of a +2, as its more restrictive than still/silent spell, which would be the alternative.

V: This is what I do in my games.

[AstralFire]

PHB II is also a good clean fix to Druid Wild Shape, since it also speeds play.

[Zeful]

Intimidate: You may substitute your Strength modifier in place of your Charisma modifier to intimidate someone.

Being strong in no way makes you scary. Knowledge, presence and the way you speak make you scary, Strength only intimidates the foolish.

Sorcerer: Gains Eschew Materials as a bonus feat at 1st level. At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels, gains a bonus Metamagic or Draconic Heritage feat. Why should wizards get all the fun stuff?

Boooo! anyone can be related to dragons, why single out Sorcerers?

If you want a good way to keep Wizard from dominating the game then I might have what you're looking for:
Wizards start play with access to two schools of magic. At 3rd level they gain access to a third but at a -2 caster level for all spells in that school. Then you add this feat.

Expanded School knowledge
Your broad studies into the arcane open up new possibilities.
Prerequisites: Wizard Level 5+
Benefit: You gain access to another school of magic of your choice. You may cast spells from this school as if you were a wizard two levels lower then the lowest level school you have access to.
Special: You may take this feat multiple times, choosing a new school each time.

[Fax Celestis]

...man, people really like that Paladin.

EDIT: Also, I'd allow sorcerors to take any Heritage feat (including, possibly, these).

[jcsw]

You forgot to mention time stop? Maybe it should give all allies in a 30ft burst the timestop effect for 2 rounds. Quite balanced compared to Snake's Swiftness, Mass, which as a Sor/Wiz 3 spell, gives all allies in a 20ft burst an attack action.

[snoopy13a]

Being strong in no way makes you scary. Knowledge, presence and the way you speak make you scary, Strength only intimidates the foolish.

Really?

A 6'5 300 pound guy is much, much more intimidating than a 5'5 130 pound guy no matter what their knowledge, presence, etc is. You may think strength only intimidates the foolish but I'd bet you'd be scared if you accidently spilled your beer on a big, mean looking guy in a bar.

[AstralFire]

Really?

A 6'5 300 pound guy is much, much more intimidating than a 5'5 130 pound guy no matter what their knowledge, presence, etc is. You may think strength only intimidates the foolish but I'd bet you'd be scared if you accidently spilled your beer on a big, mean looking guy in a bar.

You haven't met my mother.

Or my old construction boss.

[JaxGaret]

Still going to be completely unbalanced in favor of casters, despite your measures.

Sorry. It's really a monumental task to balance casters to non-casters at high levels if you're going to do it just by altering the spell lists.

[Zeful]

Really?

A 6'5 300 pound guy is much, much more intimidating than a 5'5 130 pound guy no matter what their knowledge, presence, etc is. You may think strength only intimidates the foolish but I'd bet you'd be scared if you accidently spilled your beer on a big, mean looking guy in a bar.

No I wouldn't. Should he threaten me, I can politely and enthusiastically inform him that he has threatened me with direct bodily harm and should he attempt to carry out that threat I will have no choice but exercise my right to defend myself using whatever means I deem appropriate up to and including the use of deadly force as of the United States Constitution.

I stand by my statement. Only the foolish are intimidated by muscle.

[JaxGaret]

Really?

A 6'5 300 pound guy is much, much more intimidating than a 5'5 130 pound guy no matter what their knowledge, presence, etc is. You may think strength only intimidates the foolish but I'd bet you'd be scared if you accidently spilled your beer on a big, mean looking guy in a bar.

That's what circumstance bonuses are for. If the character being Intimidated is the type of person that finds a 300 pound person more intimidating than a 130 pound person, then by all means, the DM should give a +2 (or more) bonus on the Intimidate check.

If the person being Intimidated happens to know that magic is prevalent in the world, and the 130 pound person might be a LOT more powerful than the 300 pound person, they might not be the type to care much about the size of the intimidator.

It really all depends on the circumstances, which is why it should be a circumstance bonus. But presence always matters when it comes to Intimidation.

[The Glyphstone]

Really?

A 6'5 300 pound guy is much, much more intimidating than a 5'5 130 pound guy no matter what their knowledge, presence, etc is. You may think strength only intimidates the foolish but I'd bet you'd be scared if you accidently spilled your beer on a big, mean looking guy in a bar.

^That's my reasoning. Cha or Str lets you intimidate with words, or actions...is the big muscleman holding a smaller dude off the ground and threatning to rip his spleen out if he doesn't cooperate not a trope of sorts? There's a feat in one of the splatbooks, I can't remember which one, that lets you swap Str for Cha on Intimidate checks, but it's restricted to Orcs only for some dumb reason.

I suppose I should mention that of the 5 people, 3 of them are brand-new to D&D beyond a very small bit of experience. I don't want them to get the wrong impression by taking a class - in this case Monk - that looks cool but fails at contributing meaningfully compared to the other characters. I hadn't realized there were that many people out there who still thought the Monk was a worthwhile class. And yes, I know people will say "don't use house rules for new players".

Why would a lowered level of disinterest be a bad thing?

Also, I would probably make natural spell a +1 instead of a +2, as its more restrictive than still/silent spell, which would be the alternative.

It is more restrictive, but it's also 1 feat instead of 2 separate feats. That's worth an extra +1 to me, especially for a druid who doesn't get all the bonus feats a wizard does.

Divine Metamagic is kept in check here by the metamagic rules, and the removal of Nightsticks that I missed copypasting into this.

Boooo! anyone can be related to dragons, why single out Sorcerers?

Actually, you're right on this one - I forgot about the Fey Heritage and Fiendish Heritage feat lines, consider this modified to include "any Heritage feat".

As for your "fix" - that just makes Sorcerers break the game instead of Wizards. I saw your post about this in Homebrew, thought about it, and decided that it went too far for my taste.

You forgot to mention time stop? Maybe it should give all allies in a 30ft burst the timestop effect for 2 rounds. Quite balanced compared to Snake's Swiftness, Mass, which as a Sor/Wiz 3 spell, gives all allies in a 20ft burst an attack action.

I asked for commentary, not blatant sarcasm.

1. Save-or-lose spells are still extremely strong.
2. Let mobility stack with tumbling.

1. Any suggestions on how to solve this?
2. Good idea, consider it done.

[Temp.]

Sorry. It's really a monumental task to balance casters to non-casters at high levels if you're going to do it just by altering the spell lists.

This.

To actually create a balanced system out of D&D 3.5, you essentially have to rewrite everything. It's a huge job, and if only one member of the group decides to take it upon himself, it'll be tough getting the rest of the group to agree to learn an entirely unfamiliar ruleset (especially one superficially identical to the D&D they already know and understand). If everybody sits down and works together on the rules, they'll probably have more lasting power (I've tried both approaches--sitting down with a group of friends and wholly overhauling D&D 3.5 and bringing the completed ruleset into another group. The first group has stuck with the homebrew for years, I hear. The second group just turned the idea down in seconds).

The changes you propose don't really address the problem, either. The problem isn't a select handful of broken spells and underpowered classes, it's the entire spellcasting system.

Honestly, if you have a problem with Vancian casting's power in the D&D game, just drop all of it. Players don't like what they have to be nerfed. I would much rather lose the Wizard class than have blasting spells presented as my only legalized representation of the Wizard archetype. Psionics, Tome of Magic and Incarnum are all capable fill-ins for Vancian casting classes if you need them.

One of the paradoxes in "fixing" D&D is that once a player knows the rules well enough to recognize imbalance, that player is capable of balancing the game without modifying the ruleset. There's little motivation for someone who can balance the game to do so.

I would recommend just showing your group where game imbalance arises. Encourage players to build characters at similar power levels--An Incantrix is fine if it adventures alongside an Unseen Seer and a Swiftblade; a Monk is fine if it adventures alongside a Warmage and a Favored Soul. Step in to help your group match power levels if need be, but don't show up with a long list of small tweaks that players will forget, misinterpret and argue over.

[The Glyphstone]

That's a pretty good point, actually - it's entirely possible that I'm stretching myself a bit too far. I just wanted to make the game go smoother...but considering the players I'm working with, it might be they're just better off not knowing these loopholes and overpowered combinations exist. The caster rules are probably better suited to a PbP game where you can't really hash out a set of houserules between the players easily.

If I do shelve them though (except the Teleportation deal, as that's a setting/asthetic specific modification instead of a game balance change), what about the changes to feats/skills and such?

[Temp.]

I'm nervous to recommend making rules changes, because I have a tendency to want to change everything in the 3.5 system. The changes I recommend would be minimal:

Maybe replace both the prerequisites of Spring Attack with Expeditious Dodge (Races of the Wild; +2 Dodge flat Dodge bonus if you move 40 ft in a turn). Don't worry about modifying Dodge or Mobility (beyond, of course, providing that Dodge bonus against all enemies), just make sure your players know that they're terrible feats.

And wrap the TWD feats into TWF. It couldn't hurt.

The Natural Spell modification is a good one.

The Tumble and Concentration modifications are fine. The Diplomacy thing is too much work; just wing it. The Intimidation thing is better done with circumstance modifiers.

[The Glyphstone]

Maybe replace both the prerequisites of Spring Attack with Expeditious Dodge (Races of the Wild; +2 Dodge flat Dodge bonus if you move 40 ft in a turn). Don't worry about modifying Dodge or Mobility (beyond, of course, providing that Dodge bonus against all enemies), just make sure your players know that they're terrible feats.

That's good, I hadn't known about that feat. 40ft. movement is hard for most people to accomplish, though if you're Spring Attacking anyways, you probably have some speed modifiers.


I'm still not quite ready to give up the Str to Intimidate idea though yet. Sure, someone would be scared of the little 130lb. dude who might be able to summon a demon to torture you for eternity. But why does that preclude the fact that you'd be just as dead if the 350lb. bodybuilder with the massive greataxe decides to use your intestines as a bracelet? I understand the reasoning that CHA = personality, but it just seems logical that either one would be just as scary, each in their own way. Plus, Intimidate is only a class skill for Fighters, Barbarians, and Rogues anyways out of the base classes...the only one of those who wouldn't be dumping Charisma is the Rogue.

[Morandir Nailo]

My take on the spellcaster "problem" is to exercise tighter control over spell access and Metamagic. This means several things:

1. No free spells at level. Wizards must obtain all spells through gameplay, either by research (which requires gold and a permanent laboratory, either personally owned or one operated by a Wizard's guild) or through buying/finding scrolls and spell books.

2. Starting spell lists must be reviewed and approved by the DM prior to play. This one should be obvious, but it's good form to state it up front.

3. Wizards (of any level) start with only as many spells as they have slots. Again, the idea that power of this magnitude must be earned in game.

4. School specialization does not give an extra slot, but instead gives +1 CL with the chosen school. Fewer spells/day means fewer opportunities for abuse.

5. Metamagic's cost can never be reduced; those feats/PrC abilities simply don't exist. Neither do Metamagic rods. Metamagic is very powerful, and should require full cost.

On the Divine side:

1. I think you should just get rid of Natural Spell entirely; make the Druid actually choose from encounter to encounter whether he wants to be a Caster or a Dire Tiger.

2. Remove Domain spells. Keep the idea of Domains, and the abilities that come with them, but get rid of the extra spells, both the list itself and the extra slot. Clerics simply don't need them.

And finally, in general:

1. Change buff spells to last only the length of the encounter. Buff-monkeys can still buff up before an encounter (provided circumstances allow, of course), but doing so for every encounter will cost a lot of spell slots.

2. Item creation, like spell research, requires a large, fully stocked laboratory. You aren't going to scribe magical scrolls while holed up in a dungeon room, or sitting around a campfire.

3. A further idea to explore is to get rid of Casting Defensively. Spellcasters in melee should always provoke an AoO. If they succeed at their Concentration check after taking damage, that's fine; but there shouldn't be a way to avoid the AoO altogether.

Just my 2c on the matter; it might seem a bit harsh, but given that casters can literally alter reality with a word and a gesture, I think it appropriate to exercise a little more restraint than normally done in 3.x.

Mor

[JaxGaret]

I'm still not quite ready to give up the Str to Intimidate idea though yet. Sure, someone would be scared of the little 130lb. dude who might be able to summon a demon to torture you for eternity. But why does that preclude the fact that you'd be just as dead if the 350lb. bodybuilder with the massive greataxe decides to use your intestines as a bracelet? I understand the reasoning that CHA = personality, but it just seems logical that either one would be just as scary, each in their own way. Plus, Intimidate is only a class skill for Fighters, Barbarians, and Rogues anyways out of the base classes...the only one of those who wouldn't be dumping Charisma is the Rogue.

I like Str as a circumstance bonus on top of Cha, or if you want to use the full Str mod, as a feat. Not all strongmen know how to use their strength as an advantage when intimidating someone, nor does increased strength always translate to improved intimidation, as I outlined above.

Honestly, Intimidation should be an amalgam of Int, Wis, Cha, and a myriad of circumstance bonuses, but Cha probably strikes closest to the heart of the matter.


Also, agreed with everything Temp said.

[TempusCCK]

I said it in another thread very recently, but a second edition type iniative system is extremely effective in limiting casters.

If you are casting a 9th level spell, you take a -9 to initiative. Keeps casters thinking about how they're going to use spells. There's going to be many more interruptions that way, makes them more cautious.

[Prometheus]

Just tell the players that you will give the melee type characters extra goodies throughout the game to help them keep up. These extra goodies would be based on their character sketches, so it gives extra incentive to RP. A player of an unusual race might pick up latent talents. A player who has poured a lot of resources into buffing his AC might receive some spell resistance as well or is able to attack more recklessly and effectively.

[Raum]

I said it in another thread very recently, but a second edition type iniative system is extremely effective in limiting casters.

If you are casting a 9th level spell, you take a -9 to initiative. Keeps casters thinking about how they're going to use spells. There's going to be many more interruptions that way, makes them more cautious.

Perhaps it was a house rule but the way we played the caster started casting on his initiative and just didn't finish until nine segments (more or less depending on spell casting time) later. That potentially gave noncasters a lot of time to interrupt and made an archer almost a necessity. It also kept spells from dominating combat.

[Gavin Sage]

For consideration:

*Most spells have a default casting time of 1 round. You don't finish it until your turn comes up again. Likewise move up Quicken to standard instead of swift, etc. Spells already a round can stay with some discretion. Idea being to work up the glass canon aspect while slowing mages down. Major exception: blasting spells, to encourage their use.

*Severely limit anything with hour/level durations. No walking around all day with full buffs on, make them be conserved in case you say run into the dragon that day.

*Also Magnificent Mansion but nothing on Rope Trick? No BoH/Haversacks/etc inside it is a personal idea. Sure you are safe but what about your dragon horde of stuff huh?

* DC penalty on any permanent spell effect compared to others of the level. (Possibly varied for effect)

* Players afflicted by temporary spell effects get retests to break the effects like with Hold Person.

[Zeful]

3. A further idea to explore is to get rid of Casting Defensively. Spellcasters in melee should always provoke an AoO. If they succeed at their Concentration check after taking damage, that's fine; but there shouldn't be a way to avoid the AoO altogether.

I wouldn't get rid of it I'd just make casting defensively provide a bonus to Concentration checks (like +4 at most). It make it useful, but against AoO or damage specialists your not going to get a spell off.

[Rei_Jin]

Having played quite a bit of D&D over the years, I think that the easiest fix to spellcasting (as suggested by others) is to increase the casting time. Making all spells take one time step longer to cast (Swift to Standard, Standard to Full Round, Full Round to Full Turn, Full Turn to 10 minutes, etc) would severely decrease their power, and allow non-spellcasters the chance to disrupt them without preparing an action.

[sleepy]

re: Strength vs Charisma to Intimidate.

Seen the new Batman movie? Would you like to hear how I got these scars?