Making buffs last all day

[Yahzi]

One huge problem I have with D&D is that buffing up is so crucial - and takes so long. What this means is that the attacker has a gigantic advantage, since the attackers have full buffs and the defenders have none. (You'd think a surprise round would be enough...)

Also, it means that a legitimate tactic is running away until the buffs expire, then returning to the attack. This strikes me as a silly.

So, what do you all think of this solution: all buffs (basically, all non-offense spells) last 24 hours.

Will this be unbalancing? Or will it allow the NPCs (who are usually the target of attacks) to be more equal in power?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Look at the discussions of DMM:Persist and see what you think. Divine Power(give the Cleric fighter+extra abilities), Lesser Vigor(Fast Healing 1), Death Ward(immunity to an entire school of magic), Freedom of Movement (give immunity to an entire tactic+some), Righteous Might (make the half-ogre cry), and many others. It's way unbalancing.

[Douglas]

Whether this is unbalancing or not depends very much on how many and which buffs get used. On the light end, the occasional Bless or Prayer won't have a major impact. Moving up, Shield of Faith, Bull's Strength etc, Magic Vestment, Greater Magic Weapon and a few other spells can almost completely replace quite a few major standard magic items. On the upper extreme, I have actually designed one party that achieved this through Persistent Spell and Incantatrix cheese with virtually every buff spell I could find. You can see the result here. Good luck taking that party down without some pretty extreme cheese or a monster with CR far beyond what an 18th level party is "supposed" to be able to take on.

I'd say exclude the magic item replacement spells from this rule and put some limit on the number of buffs you can have active simultaneously before any additional ones go back to their normal short durations.

[Zeful]

One huge problem I have with D&D is that buffing up is so crucial - and takes so long. What this means is that the attacker has a gigantic advantage, since the attackers have full buffs and the defenders have none. (You'd think a surprise round would be enough...)

Why do you think defenders wouldn't have buffs? In many situations competent defenders will have buffs up when they and catch the attackers (the PCs I assume) by surprise.

[tyckspoon]

Why do you think defenders wouldn't have buffs? In many situations competent defenders will have buffs up when they and catch the attackers (the PCs I assume) by surprise.

If nothing else most defenders don't have access to the magical power represented by a 'standard' party's 2.5 spellcasters (Wizard, Cleric or Druid, UMD-using Rogue/Bard) and array of magical items, so even if the defenders secure time to set up buffs they won't be as powerful as the attacking party's arrangement, assuming both sides are using the most potent buffs they have available. A 'normal' enemy encounter's best buffs probably match the PC's lesser set, since the 'normal' enemy isn't supposed to force the party to pull out their very best.

[Yahzi]

Why do you think defenders wouldn't have buffs?

Because the players go to great lengths to attack without warning.

I do agree that some spells would make certain magic items redundant - but only if you had a friendly caster to renew it each day. Which just increases the reliance on casters...

How about this: All class-leveled characters (PC and NPC) automatically get 1 round/per level of warning before they are attacked. You know, good old spidey-sense: it's just a feature of being leveled. So the NPCs get a few rounds to buff up, making "Scry and Die" not quite so dang deadly.

I'm just looking for a way to justify why my dragon has a 12 minute buff up when the invisible, silenced party sneaks in through the secret door...

[Weezer]

how about a permanant alarm on the entrance to the secret passage that should give enough warning and be conceivable for a dragon to have on his lair.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

It doesn't. It does, however, have hour/level, 10/level, and Swift Action spells. The party managed to sneak through the Dragon's wardings, alarms, past his Blindsense and Divinations, and managed to avoid his minions. They deserve an advantage.

[Tokiko Mima]

Hey, this is why you pack a warlock with Dark Foresight if you're an incredible paranoid: they can give you 24/7 Foresight.

[Yahzi]

They deserve an advantage.

I agree they deserve an advantage. It's just so much of an advantage. The entire D&D spellbook is devoted to attacking, and very little of it is about defending. This is because players are always attacking monsters, and rarely being attacked by monsters. This is wildly unfair to the monsters.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I agree they deserve an advantage. It's just so much of an advantage. The entire D&D spellbook is devoted to attacking, and very little of it is about defending. This is because players are always attacking monsters, and rarely being attacked by monsters. This is wildly unfair to the monsters.

I have to wonder. Yes, the players are the ones attacking, but once battle is joined, both sides essentially attack with every available action.

[Tokiko Mima]

This is because players are always attacking monsters, and rarely being attacked by monsters. This is wildly unfair to the monsters.

Having been ambushed constantly by the drow in the Demonweb and camping out in the wilds of Xendrik, I can assure you that sometimes the monsters *do* attack you and not vice versa. It depends on your DM, and the style of campaign, and it's not as unfair as you think. It's a big part of why you would take ranks in Listen.

[Zeful]

Because the players go to great lengths to attack without warning.

I do agree that some spells would make certain magic items redundant - but only if you had a friendly caster to renew it each day. Which just increases the reliance on casters...

How about this: All class-leveled characters (PC and NPC) automatically get 1 round/per level of warning before they are attacked. You know, good old spidey-sense: it's just a feature of being leveled. So the NPCs get a few rounds to buff up, making "Scry and Die" not quite so dang deadly.

I'm just looking for a way to justify why my dragon has a 12 minute buff up when the invisible, silenced party sneaks in through the secret door...

Play the dragon smart, have it build magic detecting traps like Alarms at all the entrances. Detect Divinations (detect magic focusing on one school) throughout the lair. Mind Blank it. Make it cast it's own divinations to look for threats (mostly Kings of lands it's raided as they'll likely hire adventurers. Use Polymorph and simulacrum liberally (the "princess" is in fact the dragon, while the squirrel the party ate is the princess) and so on.