Level 70 bard of singy

[BobVosh]

Or something. I want to make a buffer. Hard to think of where to start with a lot of this as I haven't played a bard >16. Only seen one over that much and he threw a crazy werid with 56 save or die.

Rules: (main ones for Char creation)
Character Building Rules:

70 levels plus 50.000 XP.
32 point-buy, average HP
6 levels of LA for free
Any race, including monsters with listed LA, from the SRD.
If you take templates, you are limited to one inherited and one acquired template from the SRD
You can get flaws
100.000.000 gp worth of treasure.
Available sources are the SRD, the Complete Series, the theme series (e.g. Draconomicon, Libris Mortis, Lords of Madness), the elements series (Frostburn, Sandstorm etc), Spell Compedium, Tome of Magic, Book of 9 Swords, BoED, BoVD, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, PGTF, LEoF, Magic of Faerun.
Additional sources are debatable but other campaign material or dragon magazine material is not available.
Web enhancements of the above sources and online material from the wizards' site building upon those sources are usually acceptable but ask first.

Thread in question: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93214

I'm considering Bard/Cleric/Heirophant/Sublime Cord/Comptemplative/Seeker of the song 6 so I can buff with the clerics stuff, buff with bard, and then have 2 classes to get epic spells off of.

Basically I want I want suggestions for class combos and neat bard stuff that most likely I am unaware of as I don't bard much.

Alternatively I've been consider little lighter on the buffs from cleric and instead going into hulking hurler. Simply because I want to throw planetoids at gods. "I throw the moon at the BBEG." "What" "You heard me"

[Belial_the_Leveler]

With your relatively low strength, I'm pretty sure you can't lift the moon. In any case, Ereshkigal can control any amount of earth (including metal) as a free action so she simply turns the 8.000.000 pound rock you throw at her into sand and takes no damage.

As for Bard, here's a nice build: bard 60/Divine Emissary (luck) 10.

You get 17 Epic feats and 13 bonus Epic Bard feats. Take Improved Spell Capacity (for Divine Emissary) 8 times and Innate Miracle. Use a flaw to take Supernatural Transformation. Congratulations. Now you can cast Miracle at will with an effective CL of 70 and its effects can't be dispelled. Also take Lasting Inspiration and Epic Inspiration 18 times. Now your bardic music lasts 5 minutes after you stop singing and ALL its bonuses are at least +20. So, +20 attack, +20 damage, +20 HD for hp purposes, +20 saves, +20 bonus to AC, +20 skill checks to your entire party. And everything stacking with the party's other bonuses.

I'll leave your nonepic feats, spell selection and the remaining 2 epic feats to you.

[Saph]

I think it was someone on this forum who said that the correct way to run a fight at ECL 70 is to have the players stand facing each other and take turns kicking each other in the nuts. The one who gives up first loses.

At levels 17-20, D&D's system balance is already creaking and groaning under the weight of 9th-levels spells. At levels 21-30 balance goes out the window and the game becomes basically unplayable unless the GM is very good. Trying to play RAW at levels 30-40 is ridiculous. Playing at level 70 is beyond ridiculous.

I'm not trying to be a downer, but that fact is that D&D Just Doesn't Work at the levels you're describing. Game reality unravels like an old pair of jeans, with numbers so high and logic chains so convoluted that you need an AI to check your calculations. Conflicts basically come down to DM fiat.

- Saph

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Nope. Game balance unravels in levels 14-16, is broken in levels 17-26, begins fixing in levels 27-35 and after that it is pretty balanced as long as you are careful about what Epic Spells you approve of and what non-core content you introduce. I speak from personal experience in games higher than level 30.


Why? Because the 9th level spells that are badly balanced begin losing power as soon as the rogue can stack Improved Evasion, Improved Mettle, Self Concealment and Epic Dodge via the Void Incarnate class (or some multiclassing earlier into Hexblade)
The rays and crap are useless once you get Infinite Deflection as a fighter.
The Bard is a good party member once he gets his bardic music bonuses to be better than most buffs.

[BobVosh]

There is a low DC epic spell called eclipse, I'm sure I can modify it enough to make it work where I look/count as throwing it. At 70 with the crazy spell craft I should be able to manage throwing a moon, or at least appearing to, shouldn't be too much of a stretch.

While I admit I doubt it would do anything, it sounds fun.

Can I know Eresh's portfolios? So far it seems like "all"

[AstralFire]

With your relatively low strength, I'm pretty sure you can't lift the moon. In any case, Ereshkigal can control any amount of earth (including metal) as a free action so she simply turns the 8.000.000 pound rock you throw at her into sand and takes no damage.

8,000,000 pounds of sand is still a hell of a headache. Better would be to actually move it away.

[Jack_Simth]

8,000,000 pounds of sand is still a hell of a headache. Better would be to actually move it away.

Should we mention that unless she's using Celerity or similar, she can't take Free Actions on another person's turn?

[AstralFire]

Should we mention that unless she's using Celerity or similar, she can't take Free Actions on another person's turn?

I think Belial's gods can use immediate and unlimited free actions on anything in their domain. I skimmed the thread briefly.

Which means that the last thing I would ever even try to do is fight a god with a broad portfolio...

[Belial_the_Leveler]

I think Belial's gods can use immediate and unlimited free actions on anything in their domain. I skimmed the thread briefly.

Which means that the last thing I would ever even try to do is fight a god with a broad portfolio...

Not unlimited. Up to 20 times/round. And not on anything-any action in their portofolio of DC 30 or less. It's in the SRD rules.

Can I know Eresh's portfolios? So far it seems like "all"

Magic, Evil and the Netherworld for portofolio. If you want to know exact domains, you gotta find them IC.

[BobVosh]

Magic, Evil and the Netherworld for portofolio. If you want to know exact domains, you gotta find them IC.

Darn clerics should mapped this out already for us. Curse em'!

[Douglas]

The main thing for an epic bard is taking Epic Inspiration a bunch of times and Music of the Gods so your allies don't have to forgo immunity to mind-affecting abilities in order to benefit from your music. The bonuses from Bardic music are all very unusual bonus types that stack with virtually everything, and Epic Inspiration increases all of them to potentially ridiculous heights.

War Chanter from Complete Warrior might be worth it for up to 5 levels. Level 3 gets a reverse-combat-expertise ability for the party, but it's a morale bonus and doesn't stack with Inspire Courage. If the bonus from Epic Inspiration applies to the attack bonus from that ability then it would be potentially very valuable, but I think that could be interpreted either way. If Belial rules it does, then it would be well worth it. If not, the lack of stacking with Inspire Courage makes it not so great. Level 5 lets you start two music effects at once with the same action. The higher level abilities are worthless, unless Belial rules differently on Inspire Legion than he did on Divine Power.

Seeker of the Song from Complete Arcane could be useful for Hymn of Spelldeath. It also gets the Combine Songs ability at level 2 instead of War Chanter's level 5. I don't think any of its other abilities are very useful, though, and Hymn of Spelldeath does not appear to distinguish between friends and enemies so we'd need to be careful about using it.

Sublime Chord can get you up to 9th level spells and access to the sorcerer spell list, but has no other noteworthy abilities.

Most of your levels should probably be just straight Bard for more epic bonus feats and better Inspire Courage.

[wadledo]

The main thing for an epic bard is taking Epic Inspiration a bunch of times and Music of the Gods so your allies don't have to forgo immunity to mind-affecting abilities in order to benefit from your music. The bonuses from Bardic music are all very unusual bonus types that stack with virtually everything, and Epic Inspiration increases all of them to potentially ridiculous heights.

War Chanter from Complete Warrior might be worth it for up to 5 levels. Level 3 gets a reverse-combat-expertise ability for the party, but it's a morale bonus and doesn't stack with Inspire Courage. If the bonus from Epic Inspiration applies to the attack bonus from that ability then it would be potentially very valuable, but I think that could be interpreted either way. If Belial rules it does, then it would be well worth it. If not, the lack of stacking with Inspire Courage makes it not so great. Level 5 lets you start two music effects at once with the same action. The higher level abilities are worthless, unless Belial rules differently on Inspire Legion than he did on Divine Power.

Seeker of the Song from Complete Arcane could be useful for Hymn of Spelldeath. It also gets the Combine Songs ability at level 2 instead of War Chanter's level 5. I don't think any of its other abilities are very useful, though, and Hymn of Spelldeath does not appear to distinguish between friends and enemies so we'd need to be careful about using it.

Sublime Chord can get you up to 9th level spells and access to the sorcerer spell list, but has no other noteworthy abilities.

Most of your levels should probably be just straight Bard for more epic bonus feats and better Inspire Courage.

I'd also look into complete Mages Lyric Thaumurge, because of it's BM increase, and the fact that it'll give you a number of bonuses to spell casting.
Also, cleric is a trap.
You wouldn't get enough out of it, and you already have decent enough healing and buffing from bard, and you can use those levels to improve your bardyness.
Try dirgsinger, or more bard levels.

[AstralFire]

Also, Words of Creation get even more ridiculous here.

[Jack_Simth]

Sublime Chord can get you up to 9th level spells and access to the sorcerer spell list, but has no other noteworthy abilities.

It's most noteworthy ability is that it's got it's own progression - which means other PrC's stack with it (granted, that's mostly useful when you don't have 70 levels to work with...). Additionally, as it can get you 9th level spells pre-epic, it qualifies you for Epic Spellcasting as early as possible. The Song of Arcane Power isn't bad - +4 Caster level as a Move action can be handy (although less so in Epic).

It's a one or two level dip PrC, really, to be followed by other PrC's that advance it's casting.

But yes - at 70th, you want Evasion, Mettle, good saves, and a host of immunities, plus Full Casting.