(3.5) Need help against Dispel Magic

[BWM]

Hey all,

I need a way to make a PC/NPC (or basicly his buffs) immune to Dispel Magic. Is there any spell/feat/item that can do that?




edit: Any book

[jcsw]

Well, no, cause that would be imba. The way to go about doing it is to increase Caster Level to a point past the cap of the spell.

[Epinephrine]

If it's a PC - forget it. As a DM? Force players to burn their dispels on other things?

[Jack_Simth]

Hey all,

I need a way to make a PC/NPC (or basicly his buffs) immune to Dispel Magic. Is there any spell/feat/item that can do that?




edit: Any book

Ring of Counterspells or two will do the job - at least temporarily.

If he's a Divine caster, a Bead of Karma before buffing (it's one of the beads on a Strand of Prayer Beads) increases caster level by 4 for 10 minutes - making buffs harder to dispel.

An Orange Prism Ioun Stone increases caster level by 1, making buffs harder to dispel.

The Heirophant or Archmage have the option of increasing caster level.

There's the Dispelling Buffer power from the Expanded Psionics Handbook gives +5 to the DC to dispel stuff.

[Project_Mayhem]

If it's a PC - forget it. As a DM? Force players to burn their dispels on other things?

Surely as a DM you just say that the NPC is immune to dispelling for some reason unknown to the players?

[ColonelFuster]

Surely as a DM you just say that the NPC is immune to dispelling for some reason unknown to the players?

Indeed. Arbitration is our greatest power.

[Keld Denar]

A Ring of Enduring Arcana from Complete Mage increase your CL by 4 ONLY for dispel checks. 4 is a decent strength, making the buffs harder to dispel, especially if its an NPC who's 2-3 levels higher than the PC casting it. If its not enough, kick it up a notch, and make something like a Ring of Eternal Arcana with a +8 or +12 or something. Remember, Dispel Magic caps at 1d20+10 vs DC11+CL, so if its max level, the caster of the Dispel is rolling 1d20-1 against the casters level. That means that if you can get CL20, the owner of the spell is immune to regular Dispel Magic baring some funky shananagans like the Inquisition Domain power. GDM caps at 1d20+15, which reduces to 1d20+4 vs CL, so you need to hit CL 25 to be immune to GDM. There are some higher level Dispels (Reaving?) that cap at 20, but by that level, you have access to MDJ, which autosuceeds against ongoing spell effects, so there isn't much you can do about that.

The only alternative is counterspelling the dispel. If you know EXACTLY which dispel you are countering, you can use a regular Ring of Counterspells from the DMG. If the caster is throwing a non-standard Dispel at your NPC, a Ring of Greater Counterspells with a GDM plugged into it has a good chance of countering anything you want, which would probably be a Dispel or GDM or any other Dispeling effect.

[bosssmiley]

Surely as a DM you just say that the NPC is immune to dispelling for some reason unknown to the players?

Persistent effects? IIRC dispel magic only suppresses those (as an anti-magic field) for 1-4 rounds or sommat.

[Keld Denar]

Persistent effects? IIRC dispel magic only suppresses those (as an anti-magic field) for 1-4 rounds or sommat.

What do you mean by persistant effects? If you mean spells persisted via Persist Spell metamagic, then no, those are just as vulnerable to Dispel as any other spell.

If you mean spells granted via a continuous item, then yea, those would be supressed if targeted specifically by the Dispel. A simple area or targeted dispel on the person won't do it.

[Mastikator]

Non-magical effects are immune to Dispel Magic. See if there is a non-magical way to get whatever is being dispelled.

[Yahzi]

Surely as a DM you just say that the NPC is immune to dispelling for some reason unknown to the players?

And when the players ask how they can replicate that feat, what do you tell them?

If the answer is "a bunch of magic items, specific feats, and prestige class levels," then the players may well decide not to bother with it, because they want to do other things instead.

But if it's "because the DM said so," then the players will simply ask, "Can I be immune to dispel from now on?" And when the DM says "No," they're pretty obviously going to ask, "Why not?" And when the answer is, "Because I said so," they're pretty obviously going to be not particularly happy.

Constructing monsters that make sense in your world is part of the job of being a DM. Unless you're just having a series of arena battles. If that's the case, then ya, you might as well deploy a goblin who is "immune to damage."

[Fishy]

You're doing it wrong.

When the Bad Guy's magical effects pop back after being dispelled, and the PCs ask 'How did he do that?' have them start rolling Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft checks. Tell the paladin about the rush of Negative Energy he feels right before the spells returned. Put some books in the local Archmage's library that make vague references to a dark ritual that allows a wizard to bind his magic to the world in the same way that a lich binds his soul. Set them off on a quest, tracing the Bad Guy's movements and whereabouts until they can find the hidden artifact that's powering the effect.

It's not a DM cop-out, it's an Adventure Hook!

[CthulhuM]

There's a feat in Secrets of Xen'drik that raises the DC to dispel your spells by 2 (Mysterious Magic, I think), and another in some Faerun book that gives enemies a -2 penalty on dispel checks made against your spells (I think that one was called Spell Girding).

[namo]

A Spellblade (Player's Guide to Faerun) weapon can make you immune to one Dispel spell (pick either normal or Greater depending on level).

[Iku Rex]

Spell turning will take care of targeted dispels.

Total concealment (of any kind) works as well. Greater invisibility is the obvious way to achieve that.

[xPANCAKEx]

You're doing it wrong.

When the Bad Guy's magical effects pop back after being dispelled, and the PCs ask 'How did he do that?' have them start rolling Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft checks. Tell the paladin about the rush of Negative Energy he feels right before the spells returned. Put some books in the local Archmage's library that make vague references to a dark ritual that allows a wizard to bind his magic to the world in the same way that a lich binds his soul. Set them off on a quest, tracing the Bad Guy's movements and whereabouts until they can find the hidden artifact that's powering the effect.

It's not a DM cop-out, it's an Adventure Hook!

thread win


plus if you're on your own turf, you could actually build a 'trap' in a certain area that automatically casts dispell magic as a counterspell if you set the spell triggers right. Although that would be pricey....

[Lemur]

And when the players ask how they can replicate that feat, what do you tell them?

If the answer is "a bunch of magic items, specific feats, and prestige class levels," then the players may well decide not to bother with it, because they want to do other things instead.

But if it's "because the DM said so," then the players will simply ask, "Can I be immune to dispel from now on?" And when the DM says "No," they're pretty obviously going to ask, "Why not?" And when the answer is, "Because I said so," they're pretty obviously going to be not particularly happy.

Constructing monsters that make sense in your world is part of the job of being a DM. Unless you're just having a series of arena battles. If that's the case, then ya, you might as well deploy a goblin who is "immune to damage."

You're making the assumption that the players can and should know everything there is to know about the world they live in. The DM should be allowed to keep secrets and reserve the right to use special powers that the PCs don't understand, so long as it doesn't abuse the players (too much).

Also, the DM doesn't need to devise feats and spells for every special ability in use. He can just rule that "as long as the cultists in Castle Taron chant around the green ritual circle, Chicken-mask Steve is unaffected by magic-negating effects.

And a goblin that's immune to damage isn't necessarily a bad idea. There are ways around damaging someone, and he's still a goblin so he can be easily grappled, tied up, and suffocated to death or ability/level drained if necessary.

[Project_Mayhem]

And when the players ask how they can replicate that feat, what do you tell them?

Stop meta-gaming. Birds can fly, doesn't mean I can.

[FMArthur]

Stop meta-gaming. Birds can fly, doesn't mean I can.

Flight is possibly the worst example you could use. Think more like, The Tarrasque's regeneration. Totally unobtainable.

But you know what almost all of the enemies whose abilities are unobtainable are? Monsters. If you've got an NPC with a PC race/PC class somehow able to use things that it can't, it kind of breaks verisimilitude for your players. It's entirely plausible for an unknown monster whose magic works in unknown ways to have unique effects. The same cannot be said for ordinary people with well-defined abilities and common (relatively speaking) skillsets.

[mabriss lethe]

Make the buff come from a Supernatural ability. It can be suppressed via AMF or similar effects, but can't be dispelled, ignores SR, and doesn't normally provoke an AoO

[streakster]

And when the players ask how they can replicate that feat, what do you tell them?

Annnnnnd go!

Study at the halls of Yethlik for 2000 years, just like he did.

Be born a Magicbane/Son of a God/Race XYZ, as he was. LA +100.

Learn the custom epic spell he designed and destroyed the records of.

See that amulet? The one that glows everytime he resists it? You'll need that. Whoops! It broke when removed from his corpse? Darn magicians.

Become the Lord of this Castle. Remember it only works in the castle, though...

You'll have save Vecna's life, like he did. Prerequisite.


I could go on.

[Aquillion]

For a psion, Dispelling Buffer can help. And you can always adapt it into an arcane version.

[Skjaldbakka]

You're doing it wrong.

When the Bad Guy's magical effects pop back after being dispelled, and the PCs ask 'How did he do that?' have them start rolling Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft checks. Tell the paladin about the rush of Negative Energy he feels right before the spells returned. Put some books in the local Archmage's library that make vague references to a dark ritual that allows a wizard to bind his magic to the world in the same way that a lich binds his soul. Set them off on a quest, tracing the Bad Guy's movements and whereabouts until they can find the hidden artifact that's powering the effect.

It's not a DM cop-out, it's an Adventure Hook!

Actually, it is a DM cop-out. Dispel Magic is a valid tactic, and if a PC is using it, they are going to be very upset if the DM arbitrarily says it doesn't work. The above would be valid once. Do it a lot and that ritual had better have been what you wanted the campaign to be centered around, because it just became centered around it. Having spells that cannot be dispelled is a huge deal.

Think about it from the PC's POV. They spent an action and a spell slot and managed to roll well in order to dispell your villain's buffs. Odds are, they either rolled exceptionally well, that or they spent multiple spell slots and actions dispelling your villain's buffs, and you are just saying it doesn't work.

In summary, if your response to a pc dispelling all your villain's buffs with a dispel magic is "it doesn't work in spite of your awesome roll", it would be like telling the party fighter "your maximum damage crit with a greataxe just misses arbitrarily".

Now, I understand that it can be frustrating for your villain's buffs to get knocked out by your PC dispelling them, especially if you were not expecting it, but you shouldn't approach dealing with that by being arbitrary and heavy handed about it.

Now, if I were going to come up with a home-brew solution to PC dispells, I would create a custom magic item that either shields spells from being dispelled, but takes the dispel (and is thus shut down for 1d4 rnds, allowing a second dispel to potentially have an effect), or have a magic item that can have buffs cast into it, and resets those spells 1d4 rnds after they are dispelled (but discharges it, so it can only do that once per spell).

Although I would more likely take the approach of taking my PC's strategy into account when I design an encounter.

[Ponce]

Spellblade. It is a weapon enchantment from player's guide to Faerun. Renders the wielder immune to exactly one specific spell. He can also choose to either let the spell be cancelled or to redirect it onto a new target as a free action.

[Aquillion]

Actually... let's ask the real question here.

Hey all,

I need a way to make a PC/NPC (or basicly his buffs) immune to Dispel Magic. Is there any spell/feat/item that can do that?

Why do you need the villain's buffs immune to Dispel Magic? Is there one particular buff that the villain needs to survive (which would make the encounter too short if it was dispelled?) Is this a villain who relies primarily on buffs to be intimidating?

The reason why you need this protection might factor in to exactly what sort of protection (and how heavy-handed a degree of protection) people recommend.

[Prometheus]

Indeed. Arbitration is our greatest power.

Actually this wins the thread.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Shadow Weave Magic and Shadow Adept 1 for Tenacious Magic makes the DC to dispel your spells 15 + caster level instead of 11 + caster level. Combine that with other effects which increase your effective caster level vs dispel checks and your spells can become undispellable.

If you have levels in Dweomerkeeper you can use the Supernatural Spell ability to convert a spell you cast into a supernatural effect, which would then completely ignore SR, counterspelling, disruption while casting, and even dispel attempts.

Spellblade is a great suggestion. Get a set of +1 Spellblade Armor Spikes for Dispel Magic and a +1 Spellblade Gauntlet for Greater Dispel Magic. Their effects will always be active regardless of what you're doing.


Edit: If a DM runs into players spamming Dispel Magic at the outset of every encounter, just figure out what the opponents will have when they're buffed and instead work it into their unbuffed stats, or make their buffs supernatural abilities which would then be undispellable.

[Cuddly]

Make the buff come from a Supernatural ability. It can be suppressed via AMF or similar effects, but can't be dispelled, ignores SR, and doesn't normally provoke an AoO

This.
There's a PrC for divine casters in a FR book. I think it's the one about deities. Anyway, it lets you turn up to four spells into "mantles" or some such (spellmantles?) which lets you put them on yourself as Su.


[edit]
Who cares how heavy handed this DMs tactics are or whether he can or can't homebrew something? Start your own thread if you want to discuss your particular play style.

[Aquillion]

If you have levels in Dweomerkeeper you can use the Supernatural Spell ability to convert a spell you cast into a supernatural effect, which would then completely ignore SR, counterspelling, disruption while casting, and even dispel attempts.

That's not true. While Supernatural Spell is awesome for all sorts of other reasons, it only converts it into a spell-like ability, and Spell-Like abilities can still be dispelled as normal:

You can use dispel magic to end ongoing spells that have been cast on a creature or object, to temporarily suppress the magical abilities of a magic item, to end ongoing spells (or at least their effects) within an area, or to counter another spellcaster’s spell. A dispelled spell ends as if its duration had expired. Some spells, as detailed in their descriptions, can’t be defeated by dispel magic. Dispel magic can dispel (but not counter) spell-like effects just as it does spells.

It can't be countered by dispel magic, but that's all.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

This.
There's a PrC for divine casters in a FR book.I think it's the one about deities.

Dweomerkeeper is in the Complete Divine (web enhancement), and while specific to FR's Mystra it could be adapted to any deity of magic. A Cleric in FR can take the regional feat Magical Training (PGtF) to meet the arcane spellcasting prerequisite without multiclassing. Definitely a must-have for an Archivistzilla build.