An Overview of Tome of Battle

[AmberVael]

I've heard a fair number of opinions about this book, some good, some bad. It seems to be a love or hate thing. For people curious about Tome of Battle, or the popular opinions about it, I give you this thread, which highlights some of the major points brought up about it, and adds in a few of my thoughts on the matter.

Spoiler

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Comments are appreciated.




P.S. - this is the next in the series of my DnD emote comics. The other two comics can be found here:
Wizard and Fighter class fight.
The purpose of a fighter.

[hamishspence]

hee hee hee

I like the book, but my grudge against Anime has more to do with way they usually animate mouths than anything else.

[Keld Denar]

Did you draw that? If so, its pretty good. Kind of hillarious, if taken as satire too. I really hope you aren't being serious though, especially about the whole anime thing...

[KIDS]

Wahahahahaahah! I had a huge grin on my face that grew with each panel I looked over. So awesome! Did you draw it yourself too?

[AmberVael]

I really hope you aren't being serious though, especially about the whole anime thing...

I can see where people are coming from, but it definitely doesn't have to be that way. I do like my satire, so no, I'm not serious about everything.


And yes, I do draw these. They take maybe half an hour with inkscape.

[Swiftest]

This was frankly amazing! You are to be congratulated! Also, your drawing style rocks! Head and hands for all expressions indeed!

[streakster]

Sandra v. Abrajin was the best part, for me.

Brava, Vael. Brava.

[Talya]

Awesome. Good work.

[monty]

I'd give you an internet for that, but a warblade beat me up and took all of mine.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I approve, and refuse to be drawn into another anime argument on this subforum.

[Tengu_temp]

Of course, being a reject from Exalted is still cooler than 75% of non-Exalted stuff. </fanboi>

[Talya]

I love people using disintegrate for such comparisons. For one, it's a stylisticly wonderful spell. For another reason, it kinda sucks as far as offensive wizard spells go. (Check out the same level transmutation, Flesh to Stone, which is far better. Sure, Disintegrate also does some insignificant damage if they succeed on the save, but it also requires a ranged touch attack, while Flesh to Stone, which operates on the same DC and saving throw, does not. Admittedly, disintegrate has many additional uses that Flesh to Stone does not, but as a purely offensive spell, I don't like it much.) So a wizard using suboptimal attack choices still pwned her. :)

Of course, being a reject from Exalted is still cooler than 75% of non-Exalted stuff. </fanboi>

Exalted is a lot of fun. It is, however, unquestionably "Anime-styled." That it rises above that and manages to be good anyway is truly amazing. ;)

[Starbuck_II]

I can see where people are coming from, but it definitely doesn't have to be that way. I do like my satire, so no, I'm not serious about everything.


And yes, I do draw these. They take maybe half an hour with inkscape.

Don't you mean serious about anything?

But yes, very good comic.
I like the Fighter Vs. Wiz but Fighter by itself while had it moments is less funny (though props for the G.I. Joe quote).

[Oslecamo]

Sandra needs moar optimization. Killed by a disinitrigate? Shame on her for making con her dump stat.

The core defender needs moar optimization. Killed by a warblade? Shame on him for also using con as his dump stat.

The wizard needs moar optimization. Not magically dominating Sandra? Shame on him for wasting a perfectly good slave.

The drawing style doesn't need moar optimization.

[Tengu_temp]

Exalted is a lot of fun. It is, however, unquestionably "Anime-styled."

You say that as if it was a bad thing.

[Keld Denar]

I love people using disintegrate for such comparisons. For one, it's a stylisticly wonderful spell. For another reason, it kinda sucks as far as offensive wizard spells go. (Check out the same level transmutation, Flesh to Stone, which is far better. Sure, Disintegrate also does some insignificant damage if they succeed on the save, but it also requires a ranged touch attack, while Flesh to Stone, which operates on the same DC and saving throw, does not. Admittedly, disintegrate has many additional uses that Flesh to Stone does not, but as a purely offensive spell, I don't like it much.) So a wizard using suboptimal attack choices still pwned her. :)

A gal I used to play D&D with when I lived in Boston LOVED to cast disintegrate. Except that she seldom used it offensively (except vs undead). No, she lovingly refered to it as her "Greater Open" spell.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

A gal I used to play D&D with when I lived in Boston LOVED to cast disintegrate. Except that she seldom used it offensively (except vs undead). No, she lovingly refered to it as her "Greater Open" spell.

If the plan requires access to a Masterwork Dustpan, it probably needs to be rethought.

[Kizara]

A gal I used to play D&D with when I lived in Boston LOVED to cast disintegrate. Except that she seldom used it offensively (except vs undead). No, she lovingly refered to it as her "Greater Open" spell.

My cleric likes to use Cometfall in a similar fashion. Really, droping giant meteors on things FTW!

[Lemur]

The only thing that bothers me when someone talks about something being "anime" is that they always conveniently forget all about wuxia. C'mon guys, give credit where credit is due.

[NephandiMan]

Whatever you may think of the ToB's anime feel (otaku that I am, I love it), it's pretty hard to deny the affinity between the two when the authors themselves list it as one of their major influences on page 6.

Also, all three of these comics are quite amusing. I especially like that the Fighter in the third comic has the Buster Sword.

[ocato]

Compare Sandra vs Abrajin to Harlowe vs Harkaitz for in-joke rofls.

Your emote comic is very funny, well done.

[Talya]

The only thing that bothers me when someone talks about something being "anime" is that they always conveniently forget all about wuxia. C'mon guys, give credit where credit is due.

(Scrubbed} I generally do not care for Wuxia either...it's usually quite weird. You have to disregard all laws of physics without any explanation for why.

That said, I've liked a few of them. House of Flying Daggers had such a neat story that I could even look past the silliness.


Edit: This is not a reflection on Tome of Battle. "Anime-styled" or not, the book is awesome. Exalted is undeniably "Anime-styled," (I'd say "or Wuxia" but the pictures are all Anime) and I like it anyway.

[Jerthanis]

{Scrubbed}. I generally do not care for Wuxia either...it's usually quite weird. You have to disregard all laws of physics without any explanation for why.

Here's why Wuxia films break the laws of physics: The Chinese Audience knows what real life Shaolin Monks are capable of. Feats like running on walls, doing handstands on the top of a balanced 10' pole, breaking bricks with your forehead, dragging boulders with your testicles... that's not the product of amazing fantasy... that's what Average Viewer Chan's second cousin can do. To impress a Chinese Audience, people have to fly.

Watching people who are truly proficient at their arts, whether it's martial arts or Olympic Diving... people can perform feats that you would swear were impossible if you weren't seeing them with your own eyes.

D&D is a world where those who are experts can routinely perform supernatural tasks just by having lots of Hit Dice or ranks in Diplomacy, Climb or any other example you want to think of, but as soon as you call it "Sapphire Nightmare Blade" it's unrealistic.

[RPGuru1331]

I'm so tempted to ask for an explanation, but I'm sure I'll be sorry if I do...

And that's why you got an 8, not a 0.

@^: What is your avatar, above the sign? Simple curiousity.

@OP: I was amused, since I missed your request for comments. I liked the evasion at the end too, though for maximum satire some angry blush in that last panel would serve what's her face well (Make it look like *yes*, she really is an Exalted reject)

[Townopolis]

Needs a panel or two devoted to the "more options" aspect of the book. Perhaps one panel for spellcaster VS. core fighter (I power attack for full again) and another for spellcaster VS. ToB, or perhaps all three in one panel. You could also, of course, choose option C (something I haven't mentioned).

B+

[Mr Pants]

These comics are great, very lulzy. nice work. I love how everyone can agree to hate the monk.

[Knaight]

Hilarious, and the head and hands drawing style works well. Also as far as the average viewer chan's second cousin, hardly. What shaolin monks are capable of is impressive, but they are not a large group, and most can't do that.

[XiaoTie]

Those were some funny comics. Kudos Vael

[Talya]

Here's why Wuxia films break the laws of physics: The Chinese Audience knows what real life Shaolin Monks are capable of. Feats like running on walls, doing handstands on the top of a balanced 10' pole, breaking bricks with your forehead, dragging boulders with your testicles... that's not the product of amazing fantasy... that's what Average Viewer Chan's second cousin can do. To impress a Chinese Audience, people have to fly.

Watching people who are truly proficient at their arts, whether it's martial arts or Olympic Diving... people can perform feats that you would swear were impossible if you weren't seeing them with your own eyes.

I've watched real martial arts experts. They don't look like that.

D&D is a world where those who are experts can routinely perform supernatural tasks just by having lots of Hit Dice or ranks in Diplomacy, Climb or any other example you want to think of, but as soon as you call it "Sapphire Nightmare Blade" it's unrealistic.

As I said, I have no issues with Tome of Battle, or Exalted (in fact I love them both). I was just commenting that I don't like Wuxia any more than I like Anime. It's not an overall hatred in either case, I can count on one hand the number of Wuxia films I found enough redeeming qualities in to like, and there's even some anime that I've liked (Robotech -- yes, I'm a girl who grew up in the 80's -- and Appleseed come to mind.) They're just few and far between. (Appleseed Ex Machina sucked, though. :( Very disappointed.)

[Inyssius Tor]

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