Infiltration

[BRC]

In an upcoming adventure, the PC's are going to need information. The best way to gain said information would be to sneak into a heavily guarded compound. The PC's can do this, that's not the problem, I'm just wondering how to run it. I'd prefer it not to be
"You see a guard"

"I make a hide and move silently check"
"Okay, he dosn't see or hear you, you move on until you see another guard". And so on and so forth. I'd prefer somthing intresting, but if it comes down to "Make a route and I'll assign a DC depending on how many guards you pass" I'd prefer that over something ridiculously complex. I'm willing to improvise so don't feel that you need to cover every condition, I'm just looking for a basic framework.

Any ideas?

[golentan]

Throw in some moments requiring magic to get through a door, or a puzzle. Improvise, come up with tactics the PCs can use to improve or hurt their chances other than just "I make a stealth check" and encourage them to come up with their own. Innovative uses of magic items are good: for example I had a pair of PCs who got into the top floor of the most heavily guarded tower of a heavily guarded fortress by using an immovable rod and a rod of sliding each. They stood at the base of the tower. PC two held PC one in the air: one activated his immovable rod. He readies two actions to turn it off and on again, and the two, standing under him, uses the rod of sliding to knock him thirty feet in the air. Then two readies an action to turn on his immovable rod, and one pulls him up. Rinse and repeat.

[memnarch]

Set them up with some information if possible on different ways that they could sneak in.

Sneaking in; crawl through drains/sewers maybe, duct work (if applicable), the old "see guard = move silent/hide" like you described, cause distraction to draw guards off, try bluffing way in; just some ideas that I thought of in about 5 minutes.

[Emperor Tippy]

Do they need to enter and exit undetected or just get in and get a map/memo/etc?

Because if the objective is just to stop the alarm from being raised then you can have combat and the like. But if they need to get in and out undetected then it really does pretty much come down to a series of hide and move silently checks or using the relevant magic.

In one of my games 3 level 10 PC's depopulated an entire enemy fortress without taking any damage. Swordsage, Warlock, and a Factotum with a stone of silence. Killing guards one or two at a time and throwing the bodies in the bag of holding.

[Silvarelion]

Set them up with some information if possible on different ways that they could sneak in.

Sneaking in; crawl through drains/sewers maybe, duct work (if applicable), the old "see guard = move silent/hide" like you described, cause distraction to draw guards off, try bluffing way in; just some ideas that I thought of in about 5 minutes.

I like this. Make it impossible (or massively difficult) for them to just make hide/move silent checks. Make them think about it more.

[BRC]

Do they need to enter and exit undetected or just get in and get a map/memo/etc?

Because if the objective is just to stop the alarm from being raised then you can have combat and the like. But if they need to get in and out undetected then it really does pretty much come down to a series of hide and move silently checks or using the relevant magic.

In one of my games 3 level 10 PC's depopulated an entire enemy fortress without taking any damage. Swordsage, Warlock, and a Factotum with a stone of silence. Killing guards one or two at a time and throwing the bodies in the bag of holding.

Well, they are investigating somebody who is staying in a guest house in the compound of a powerful noble family. The guards are intelligent so when they see an intruder their first action will not be "Take them on ourselves", the setting has Gunpowder and each guard carries a flare pistol. If they spot somebody, their first action will be to sound the alarm (by firing said flare pistol into the air), summoning many more guards and the wizard the nobleman has on retainer.


The way I am thinking of doing it is to split the compound up into sections, each section will have an "encounter" in it. I'll have the PC's plot out their route ahead of time, and they will have to deal with the encounter for every section they pass through (Bluffing way past, sneaking past, killing silently and hiding the body, ect).

[Lord Tataraus]

Also not that guards don't stand still. I suggest you run it as an encounter (i.e. by turns) Don't require initiative or anything, but alternate between the guard and infiltrator movement. Basically, you have a hidden map of the compound with the guards who each have a selected route and they move along that route at a given rate (like 10ft per turn) always watching and listening (I like to use 13+Spot/Listen as a "attentive passive" check result). The infiltrators will have to dodge guards, but as the guard's move their hiding places would be seen so they need to keep on their toes. And there is nothing like stealing some documents just as a guard walks by the door. Also, use the garrote rules if you have them to silence guards and disarm them, silently knock them out and hide them. However, every guard should cross paths with at least 3 others and if one doesn't show up as normal and linger a bit to chat, the word spreads and a sort of silent alarm goes off where the guards are more attentive (+2 to Spot/Listen for every missing guard).

It might sound complicated, but its actually pretty simple and if you are decent with programming you could easily automate almost the entire process of handling the guard, you don't even need a graphical display, just coordinates.

Some more tips to remember are guards will notice if something is out of place, include items that may be accidentally hit or moved a bit too much and have the guards notice and become more attentive.

[BRC]

Also not that guards don't stand still. I suggest you run it as an encounter (i.e. by turns) Don't require initiative or anything, but alternate between the guard and infiltrator movement. Basically, you have a hidden map of the compound with the guards who each have a selected route and they move along that route at a given rate (like 10ft per turn) always watching and listening (I like to use 13+Spot/Listen as a "attentive passive" check result). The infiltrators will have to dodge guards, but as the guard's move their hiding places would be seen so they need to keep on their toes. And there is nothing like stealing some documents just as a guard walks by the door. Also, use the garrote rules if you have them to silence guards and disarm them, silently knock them out and hide them. However, every guard should cross paths with at least 3 others and if one doesn't show up as normal and linger a bit to chat, the word spreads and a sort of silent alarm goes off where the guards are more attentive (+2 to Spot/Listen for every missing guard).

It might sound complicated, but its actually pretty simple and if you are decent with programming you could easily automate almost the entire process of handling the guard, you don't even need a graphical display, just coordinates.

Some more tips to remember are guards will notice if something is out of place, include items that may be accidentally hit or moved a bit too much and have the guards notice and become more attentive.

Hmm, Sounds good.
Question, my current plan is to make the guards Hobgoblin Fighters or Knights with a homebrew feat that gives them Spot, Listen, and Sense Motive as class-skills (I call it Guard Training). My question is, is it too cruel to make the guard's hobgoblins, which would give them Darkvision and therefore make them difficult to hide from.

In terms of setting, it makes sense for this nobleman to use Hobgoblins as guards. He has good relations with the local goblinoid community, Hobgoblins are loyal and they have darkvision.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

What's the level? Past 5-7, the entire party might be invisible, making the whole 'hide' thing moot.

[BRC]

What's the level? Past 5-7, the entire party might be invisible, making the whole 'hide' thing moot.

6, a few of them could be invisible, but the guard's have dogs to handle invisible people (well, not all the guards. The dogs get called in if the guard's find somthing suspicious)

[Fax Celestis]

I'm running a very stealth-centric game at the moment myself, and what I've done is introduced both the Facing and the Vitality/Wound Point systems into the game. Facing makes it important to sneak up on people from behind (or to merely sneak behind them), while V/WP makes a sneak attack vs. an unwitting opponent likely to be lethal. I don't allow full SA damage to hit WP when attacking, but I allow it to deal 2 damage per die--this can be lethal to most targets, or at least crippling.

The other thing I've done is skill condensation: most importantly, Hide and Move Silently become Stealth, and Listen and Spot become Awareness. I've done some other condensation (Open Lock into Disable Device, Use Magic Device into Spellcraft, and Use Rope into Survival, notably), but that's neither here nor there.

Since I make a lot of Awareness checks, and the PCs make a lot of Stealth checks, rolling once instead of twice quickens the game. I also introduce passive Awareness scores--this means I don't have to roll for the guards unless "something is up". I've been running with a passive awareness of 12 + modifiers for right now, and it's been working out okay. It means that the PCs can't walk directly in front of a guard without a good check, but an unalert guard relying on his passive score takes a -5 to spot things in his flank spots and a -10 to spot things behind him--unless he's got tremorsense, blindsense, or blindsight, that is. This way, the PCs are rewarded by staying out of sight. There are no passive Stealth scores: one can step on a twig while sneaking, for instance, so it still gives the PCs something to do.

I've been considering introducing the Players Roll All The Dice or the Complex Skill Checks variants, but I'm still up in the air on that.

[DragonBaneDM]

Mmkay, making clear the edition might make things easier. I say run a skill challenge, though, regardless of edition. They've worked well for me in the past, and this is the exact scenario where I'd use one. Try sticking one of these bad boys on every level on the compound in between necessary combat and traps!

Have it set up how many checks they need to win to get in to their target. Fail enough, and the alarm could be called, and a giant, practically unwinnable combat situation develops.

You'd want to use the following skills in the various skill challenges in each section, you determine the order of the skills used, and have them roll initiative to see who deals with what:

Stealth (Hide and/or Move Silently) - At least two characters must make a Stealth, (Or a Hide and/or Move Silently) check each round in order for the party to escape notice from a passing guard. Failure obviously results in combat. This is a good way to let the Skill Monkey feel awesome without the Tank feeling worthless.

Thievery (Open Lock or Sleight of Hand) - They can use this to either pick a lock you throw in their way or pickpocket a map, order, or other info off of one of the aforementioned passing guards.

Perception (Spot or Listen) - This can be used to either notice a promising passage, staircase, or the like. This gives a +2 bonus to the next check in the party. Shouldn't count towards the failure/win count.

Athletics/Acrobatics (Swim/Jump/Climb/Balance/Tumble/Use Rope) - Don't make this a boring, plain dungeon. Throw in moats, alternative quicker-yet-dangerous paths, close together walls, chandeliers that give people ideas, and stuff like that. Make sure to describe, or even map, your compound in detail so that the players know when is a good time to use these skills.

Diplomacy or Bluff - This could be used to cancel the loss from a failed Stealth check. However, the DCs should be considerably high.

As for just general advice:

I've run infiltration maps before. Also had gunpowder. It's awesome, use it as much as fantastically possible!!! Fill this place up with traps galore based on it. Barrells + flare guns = BOOM!!! Lotsa damage!

MAKE SURE YOUR GUARDS ARE NOT WUSSES!!! Or else you're players won't be scared. At all. This leads to them charging in like gangbusters, you losing combat encounters, and both sides of the game fealing cheated. Make it so that only two or three combat encounters are survivable. And traps should be pretty deadly as well.

If they are gonna be in here for the whole session, providing them with a saferoom might be helpful. This let's players heal, argue, and plan. And boy! Do they love to plan!!! However, if things get boring, just have a squadron discover it. Boom, now the PCs are the defenders!!!

And probably most importantly, make the atmosphere of the game revolve around the PCs not being discovered at any cost, this will discourage your problem player, and all groups have one, from doing anything stupid, and add to the PC's pleasure when they pull off a big heist or their peril when caught. Describe the little things, menacing clanking of armor, the smell of ale on a guards breath as he walks past the tapestry the mage is hiding behind, having a guard tie his shoe right next to a statue hiding the healer. Y'know, little stuff. That'll make your game.

As for this retained Wizard of yours, he should be scary as all hell! Like a pshyco mage, covered in tattos, change him to a Warlockish kinda theme if possible. Kills guards who screw up while maniacally laughing. A force to be reckoned with! Darth Vader meets the Shade from Eragon! This is probably your main villain for the adventure, right? That means you = him!

[BRC]

Alright, here's what I'm thinking.

It takes 1 Time Unit to get through a zone. I keep track of how many Time Units have passed since the operation started.

Example Zone: Gardens 1
Part of the Duke's Gardens.
Occupants: Guard, Gardener.

A patrol comes by this zone every four TU's, if the guard is missing, they will spend 1d2 TU's searching/ waiting for him before sounding the alarm. If the Gardener is taken out silently, there is a 50% chance each TU that the guard will notice, once he's notice he will wait 1d4 TU's before sounding the alarm.




I thought "Geeze this is going to be tough to coordinate", but then I realized that the PC's won't be in more than one zone at a time, so I only need to worry about where they are and where they have been, and if they slip through a zone without disturbing anything, I don't even have to worry about that.

[Lord Tataraus]

Alright, here's what I'm thinking.

It takes 1 Time Unit to get through a zone. I keep track of how many Time Units have passed since the operation started.

Example Zone: Gardens 1
Part of the Duke's Gardens.
Occupants: Guard, Gardener.

A patrol comes by this zone every four TU's, if the guard is missing, they will spend 1d2 TU's searching/ waiting for him before sounding the alarm. If the Gardener is taken out silently, there is a 50% chance each TU that the guard will notice, once he's notice he will wait 1d4 TU's before sounding the alarm.




I thought "Geeze this is going to be tough to coordinate", but then I realized that the PC's won't be in more than one zone at a time, so I only need to worry about where they are and where they have been, and if they slip through a zone without disturbing anything, I don't even have to worry about that.

Sounds like a good plan and I agree with Fax that you need facing, otherwise you just lose realism. Also, the insta-kill maneuver would help out a lot. Maybe allow a Death Attack-type feat that requires the character to be specifically out of combat to use (maybe a ridiculous Concentration check to use in combat) that kills or knocks out an opponent immediately. Or, of course you can just use the Wound/Vitality system but that might mess with the consistency of the campaign. As for using hobbos for guards, it makes it more challenging, but as long as you have facing then it doesn't pose too great of a challenge.

[BRC]

Sounds like a good plan and I agree with Fax that you need facing, otherwise you just lose realism. Also, the insta-kill maneuver would help out a lot. Maybe allow a Death Attack-type feat that requires the character to be specifically out of combat to use (maybe a ridiculous Concentration check to use in combat) that kills or knocks out an opponent immediately. Or, of course you can just use the Wound/Vitality system but that might mess with the consistency of the campaign. As for using hobbos for guards, it makes it more challenging, but as long as you have facing then it doesn't pose too great of a challenge.

The Infiltration will likely be done by the party assassin, so death attack is go, and I'll definetally use facing.

For the guards I'm thinking 4th level Fighters or Knights armed with swords and heavy pistols. The first bullet in these pistols is a flare bullet which they will fire into the air. They will have a Homebrew feat that gives them Spot, Listen and Sense Motive as class skills, with as many ranks as they can get in each.

The Wizard will, when the alarm is sounded, Fly in, casting various buffs (Blur) and Dancing Lights on the way. He will use the lights to find the intruders. He will then use spells like Black Tentacles, Solid Fog, Whelm, Grease, ect to trap the intruders. He carries two scrolls of Summon monster V which he will use to summon earth elementals to grapple the intruders.

[BRC]

The two potential Guard Stats, Any advice on which I should go with?
Hobgoblin
(knight 4)
Hp: 28
Str Con Dex Int Wis Cha
12 12 11 11 13 8
AC 16 (Breastplate +5, Dodge +1) Flat Footed 15, Touch 11
Init: +5
Base Attack +4 (+5 with str bonus)
Attack: MWK Longsword +6 (1d8 +1, 19-20) or MWK Heavy Pistol +6 (1d10, x3, first shot is a flare, Move action to reload).
Gear: Tabard, Breastplate, MWK Longsword, MWK Heavy Pistol, 2 Tanglefoot Bags,
Skills: Spot +6, Listen +6, Sense Motive +5
Feats: Improved initiative, Guard Training
(I'll finish this when I get home to the PHBII)
Hobgoblin Fighter 4
Hp: 24
Str Con Dex Int Wis Cha
12 12 11 11 13 8
AC 16 (Breastplate +5, Dodge +1) Flat Footed 15, Touch 11
Init: +5
Base Attack +4 (+5 with str bonus)
Attack: MWK Longsword +7 (1d8 +3, 19-20) or MWK Heavy Pistol +6 (1d10, x3, first shot is a flare, Move action to reload).
Saves: Fort +5, Will +2, Ref +1
Gear: Tabard, Breastplate, MWK Longsword, MWK Heavy Pistol, 2 Tanglefoot Bags,
Skills: Spot +8, Listen +8, Sense Motive +5
Feats: Improved initiative, Guard Training, Weapon Focus (Longsword), Weapon Specialization (Longsword), Alertness.


Guard Training is a Homebrew Feat, I posted it in the Homebrew forum for your perusal.

[valadil]

With this sort of situation you can improvise around the PCs as much as you like. I'd recommend starting with a general outline of what the place looks like, but let them try whatever they want and react accordingly. Make sure you throw up some walls that make them go back and try another route. Throw in some open ended puzzles too. Stuff like a big empty room with nowhere to hide and three guards. Obviously they'll have to distract the guards (and the guards will of course split into groups so they'll still have guards left to deal with) but let the players figure out the details.

[Tadanori Oyama]

Mundane traps and obsticales. Things that aren't lethal in focus, just made to slow down or make noise.

Trip wires activated (and deactivated) by levers. They don't trigger anything, their just there. The people trying to get in miss them and wham! prone they do. Ideally put them in places where a player would have to "hurry".

Give the guards some credit and let them have their down tricks. One of the guards might have a bottle he keeps on a door handle. Put bells on things.

One of my old favorites was the guards tie a string to some of the door handles and to a nail in the frame. If somebody opens the door, the string falls and hangs from the handle. The PCs have a chance notice it but if they do nothing about it than the next guard who comes by the door knows someone who isn't supposed to be inside came through it.

[BRC]

I want to stay away from traps, this isn't a dungeon or a fortress they are infiltrating, it's a noblemans house. Servants and lesser house members and guests are going to be running nilly-willy throughout the place. Those "bell on the door" Traps might be good though.

[Emperor Tippy]

How high are the ceilings? I've had PC's make use of spider climb and sneak around a castle by virtue of moving along the vaulted ceilings. It's something that you might want to take into account, either as a way for the PC's to get through easily if they think of it or as something for the guards to have thought about and dealt with.

And there is always good old invisibility. Combine it with Hide, Move Silently, and the Darkstalker feat and this should be pretty trivial.

Or one of my favorite tricks, just convince the guards that you are supposed to be there. Forgery is a great trick.

[Subotei]

I want to stay away from traps, this isn't a dungeon or a fortress they are infiltrating, it's a noblemans house. Servants and lesser house members and guests are going to be running nilly-willy throughout the place. Those "bell on the door" Traps might be good though.

I was going to suggest encounters with servants other than guards when I started reading the thread, but you've obviously thought it through. Those servants will effectively be impromptue guards moving at random - also they're harder for a Good party to deal with - its OK dispatching guards left and right, but what about the innocent young laundry girl who's just walked in on you?

[BRC]

I was going to suggest encounters with servants other than guards when I started reading the thread, but you've obviously thought it through. Those servants will effectively be impromptue guards moving at random - also they're harder for a Good party to deal with - its OK dispatching guards left and right, but what about the innocent young laundry girl who's just walked in on you?

The guard's arn't evil either, neither is the Duke.
The PC's are inqusitors, and their latest lead pointed towrds a guy who is currently a guest of said duke (Duke dosn't know what the guy is up to). By that same count, they won't lose any sleep over "Mainting operational security" when neccessary.
The servant's won't have much in the way of Spot or Listen checks, and if the Pc's go the disguise route provided they look busy the servant's won't question anything, however they will inconviniently find corpses.

[BRC]

Here is the map, the goal is to get to the Guest Apartments.

[Emperor Tippy]

This may sound stupid but it has to be asked.

What is stopping the PC from doing the following:
1. Buy potions of Fly, Invisibility, and Blink
2. Drink potions of Fly and Invisibility
3. Fly up a thousand feet or so and then fly over until you are directly above the guest quarters, then fly down until you are on the roof of the quarters.
4. Drink potion of Blink.
5. Blink through the roof of the guest quarters

Your at your goal in 5 easy steps and avoid all of the guards.

[BRC]

This may sound stupid but it has to be asked.

What is stopping the PC from doing the following:
1. Buy potions of Fly, Invisibility, and Blink
2. Drink potions of Fly and Invisibility
3. Fly up a thousand feet or so and then fly over until you are directly above the guest quarters, then fly down until you are on the roof of the quarters.
4. Drink potion of Blink.
5. Blink through the roof of the guest quarters

Your at your goal in 5 easy steps and avoid all of the guards.

In the breifing materials I'll point out that the wagemage has Magic-detecting wards over the compound. Not very sensitive ones, but they could detect a Fly spell.
I won't have a hard-and-fast rule for which spells it will pick up, but knowing my players this will make them suitably paranoid. I'll let them make Know-Arcana checks to guess whether the wards will pick up a particular spell.

[Emperor Tippy]

If they can detect a fly spell than they are sensitive. Fly is only third level (a faint aura according to Detect Magic).

[BRC]

If they can detect a fly spell than they are sensitive. Fly is only third level (a faint aura according to Detect Magic).

Yeah, so it may be that they can detect anything third level and below, Or maybe they are especially sensitive to Fly spells, to prevent people from doing exactly what you described earlier.

[memnarch]

Maybe wards against ethereal beings? walls of force might come into play then once the PC is detected, possibly trapping them in a box.

[BRC]

Maybe wards against ethereal beings? walls of force might come into play then once the PC is detected, possibly trapping them in a box.

PC's are 6th level, so they don't have any way to get ethereal.

[memnarch]

Blocks the blink potion; I'm assuming it works as the spell?