[3.5] Accounting & Dragons - or, Getting Ready for the Last Session

[TheCountAlucard]

So, last night was the penultimate session of my current 3.5ed evil campaign. The only thing my players and I did was level the PCs to from 8 to 20 for their final adventure before they assume NPC status. We started at about 4:00 PM, and didn't finish with the last one until about midnight. It would've taken longer, but one of the players had taken time before the session to level his character with me, and two of the other players couldn't make it, and thus we'll end up levelling them sometime during the week.

It was my observation that for the two melee characters, their stats were finished rather quickly, and the vast majority of their time was spent ogling over Chapter 7 of the DMG, trying to decide what they were going to blow their money on. I'd say that roughly two-thirds of the time they spent raising their characters to twentieth level was devoted to spending all that cash.

The casters spent just as long looking over magic items, but because of hammering out their spell lists, spells per day, DCs for their spells, etc., it took even longer for them to finish up their sheets.

So, once the session was over and I started looking forward to next week, I realized something - I had never actually statted out the Big Bad Evil Guy!

Is it just me, or is devoting eight hours to making four characters a bit excessive to you as well?

[Triaxx]

Throw a druid at them.

Yes and no. Eight hours is about right for 8 to 20, but it should have been spread across eight hour long game sessions.

[Laurellien]

Excessive, but strangely satisfying once you see the end result.

[Tequila Sunrise]

Is it just me, or is devoting eight hours to making four characters a bit excessive to you as well?

After about hour 2, I'd have sent them home to finish up on their own time. Maybe it's because I'm a DM but 8 hours is waaay too long to stat up any single stat block, even a PC caster.

TS

[Knaight]

Yes, but I'm used to games where even the top tier characters take 10 minutes, top, to create.

[Raum]

Is it just me, or is devoting eight hours to making four characters a bit excessive to you as well?

Yes. I prefer to GM systems where 80% of my prep time is spent on story and plot and only 20% (or less) is spent on the mechanics. I also prefer games where my total prep time is less than one quarter of my total game time. I simply don't have time to do otherwise.

[Fan]

Yes, but I'm used to games where even the top tier characters take 10 minutes, top, to create.

It takes me about 2 hours, but thats because I only play casters, or TOB classes.
that, or a RARE barbarian.

[DigoDragon]

Is it just me, or is devoting eight hours to making four characters a bit excessive to you as well?

I would guess it depends on how experienced you are on making characters, but 8 hours is pretty high on the scale in either case.

[Fiery Diamond]

Wait...you were helping your players jump from level 8 to level 20? And this took 8 hours? Did I understand correctly?

Well, I'm not sure why you had them jump the levels like that, but oh well. 8 hours does seem excessive to me, but that's probably because changing their characters one level usually takes about 30 minutes for my players (creating the character takes far longer - it usually takes about 3 hours at least). Picking magic items - it doesn't matter how many levels you change, it usually takes about the same as creating a character at higher than level one's picking out magic items- that is, approximately 1-3 hours. And I would think the people would be doing things simultaneously, except for maybe book sharing. So...I can see 5-6 hours, but 8 does seem a little long.

-Fiery Diamond

[Tsotha-lanti]

Is it just me, or is devoting eight hours to making four characters a bit excessive to you as well?

Yes, it is, and it makes me wonder what you were doing wrong. It takes me maybe an hour to create a 20th-level character, using a pool of some 20+ sourcebooks. Less if it's an NPC.

I guess part of it is the problem of doing it together, especially if you have fewer copies of each book than you have people (and most especially the PHB, DMG, PHB2, and other books everyone needs equally). We usually take an entire session to create characters for almost anything, regardless of starting power level. (The big exception so far being D&D 4E, I guess.)

[TheCountAlucard]

Yes, it is, and it makes me wonder what you were doing wrong.

Well, we only had one of each book, and there were four people there. There was rather a lot of "Hey, hand me the DMG, just for a sec," or "Can I see the PHB? It's by your elbow," and the like.

[Emperor Tippy]

Were they leveling up one level at a time or where you just jumping them straight to level 20?

Because if you were going through, filling in the saves, BAB, skills, etc. for every level from 8 to 20 I could see it taking that long. But if you were skipping straight to 20 then the only things that should have taken more than about 30 miniutes total for the entire group would be spells and magic items. And for those it just becomes a function of how experienced you are with building characters at those power levels and how many books you have.

I mean if you've never played a high level game before and need to read through all the spells and magic items in 20+ source books them 8 hours is probably pretty quick. But if you already know mostly what is good and what isn't then it was pretty excessive.

If this was core only (PHB, DMG, MM1) then it was incredibly excessive. There simple isn't enough book to spend 8 hours flipping through.

[TheCountAlucard]

Well, two of the players are fairly new to the game...

...but yeah, I felt that it took way longer than it should have.

...At least there was pizza...

[Tsotha-lanti]

Well, we only had one of each book, and there were four people there. There was rather a lot of "Hey, hand me the DMG, just for a sec," or "Can I see the PHB? It's by your elbow," and the like.

That's pretty much how we spend an entire session creating characters for anything at all. First session: generation, orientation, introduction.

It's much easier when we're creating new characters - especially if the system is new - since I can run the thing for everyone, going through the stages together. When you get to something like PrCs or buying magic items for high-level D&D characters, that just won't work.

[Thurbane]

It takes me about 2 hours, but thats because I only play casters, or TOB classes.
that, or a RARE barbarian.

I prefer my barbarians well done.

Spoiler

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[TheCountAlucard]

I prefer my barbarians well done.

Spoiler

Show

Mmm, broken image...

[Thurbane]

Mmm, broken image...

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/193...3118CHKg_w.jpg

[Prometheus]

That is way to long. I had a similar progression from level 17 to 24 and it didn't take that but half an hour to 45 minutes for six characters to finish.

[Knaight]

Still too long.

[Zeta Kai]

Well, two of the players are fairly new to the game...

...but yeah, I felt that it took way longer than it should have.

...At least there was pizza...

Now we're getting to the crux of the issue!

Well, I've been a DM for years now, & even if I have all my books at my dedicated disposal, as well as some precious peace & quiet, it still takes me over 30 minutes to craft a high-level NPC that I actually care about.