Mutants and Mastermind players. I need help with mimicry.

[EndlessWrath]

I'm completely new to the system... and we're playing a heroes style game.. I have 150 pp... and put 100 into mimic... (considering all 150). I've taken twenty ranks in mimicry... extra subject, perception, and continuous, stacking, and residual, with tainted and overload flaws .

I need explanation on a few things.

how long does continuous power apply?

I can take two subjects powers up to 100 points each? can i use both at the same time?

Do i need to keep taking extras/rank? or just apply?

might add more questions soon...but i wanted to get this out since i haven't gotten it answered on Q&A board.

Always thankful for your help

[hewhosaysfish]

I'm completely new to the system... and we're playing a heroes style game..

I've only played in one short-lived M&M campaign myself but I'll try to help. If anyone else on the thread disagrees with me though, they're probably right.

I have 150 pp... and put 100 into mimic... (considering all 150). I've taken twenty ranks in mimicry... extra subject, perception, and continuous, stacking, and residual, with tainted and overload flaws .

What Power Level are you? I thought you could only have ranks in a power up to your PL? Maybe I'm thinking of something else?

I need explanation on a few things.

how long does continuous power apply?

Until you turn it off, I believe. It then stays off until you turn it on again. What sort of action it take to turn a continuous power on and off depends on the power and the extras you have for it.

I can take two subjects powers up to 100 points each? can i use both at the same time?

Do you mean alternate powers? If you have a 100pt power then you can spend one more point to add an alternate power to it. The alternate power can be worth up to 100pts (same value as the original power) but you can't use both at the same time. Specifically, only one out of the pair of powers will be usable or functioning at any one time and you can only change which one is usable/functioning once per round.

Do i need to keep taking extras/rank? or just apply?

I'm not sure I understand this question.

[Ecalsneerg]

Power ranks are not directly capped by PL, but powers with save DCs (i.e. Blasts, Stuns) or save bonuses (i.e. Force field, Protection) are indirectly limited by PL caps. So a PL 10 hero can take Teleport 20, but unless he uses a huge trade-off then he can't have Protection 20.

[Grynning]

Are you using 1st or 2nd edition? I'm assuming 2nd.

First of all, you say that you have 150 pp, which to me sounds like PL 10. Realize that you have to buy EVERYTHING with pp, including attributes, skills, feats, saves, attack bonus, everything. Now, with a mimic those things are less important, but realize that if you spend all your points on your power, if your power ever gets negated (which can happen pretty easily) you will have literally nothing else (your defense and all your stats will be 10, you will have no bonus to any rolls). You may want to talk to your GM and have them help you out a little.

A little off topic, but Mimic is a pretty complex power and I wouldn't recommend it to beginners. I'm pretty good with rules and I've been playing M&M for a little while now and those "multi-trait array" powers can still make my head spin.

how long does continuous power apply?

As long as you are conscious and want the power to be on. Canceling it is a free action. Read "Duration" in the preface to the power descriptions. Actually read that entire section on Powers again, it'll help you a lot to be really familiar with that part of the book (p. 66-71 in the hardcover).

I can take two subjects powers up to 100 points each? can i use both at the same time?

Technically, yes, IF you have the "Extra Subject" extra. Otherwise, you can only mimic one person at a time. One application of Extra Subject, which you seem to have bought, means you can mimic 2 folks at a time. If you wanted to do 5 at a time, it would make your power cost an extra point per rank.

However, remember that anything you mimic is capped by your own PL (so if you're at PL 10, your attack rolls and save DC's are still capped at 10 (assuming no trade-offs of course), and also by your mimic rank, even if the target's is higher. Therefore it's generally a waste to buy mimic at a rank above your own PL (yeah you can get more traits, but a lot of them won't be doing much).

Also, read the rules on the stacking extra again. Things that are the same trait don't stack one for one, it's just a +1 each time you mimic the same trait. Some examples of the Stacking Extra in action:

Example: You have a Dex of 10. I have a Dex of 14. Mike has a Dex of 16. (Just assume the rest of our stats are crap and you don't want to mimic them) You mimic both of our Dex scores. You get Mike's Dex of 16 (6 points worth of traits from mike) and then a +1 for mimicking my Dex of 14 (4 points worth of traits from me), for a total score of 17. If you didn't have the stacking extra, you would only have Mike's score of 16.

Example 2: I have 8 ranks in Protection. Mike has 6 ranks in Protection. By Mimicking both of our Protection powers, you have 9 ranks of Protection (My 8 +1 for Mimicking Mike).

Example 3: I have 8 ranks in Protection. Mike has 8 ranks in Force Field. Different powers, but they provide the same bonus (+8 to toughness saves). They don't stack at all, I believe, since they're not the same Trait, so the stacking extra wouldn't apply. You just get a net +8 to toughness saves.

This is of course with very small numbers, but you get the idea.

As for mimicking multiple powers, you have access to all the powers you are mimicking, but remember you are still limited to one swift, move and standard action per round. So, if you're Mimicking my Blast and Mike's Gravity Control, yes you have both powers, but you can only use one at a time, same as if you bought the powers yourself.

Do i need to keep taking extras/rank? or just apply?

Not quite sure what you mean by this. If you mean do you need to buy more ranks with Experience...well, if you find you want to be able to copy more traits from individual subjects, then yes.

Hope that cleared it up a bit for you.

P.S. - The "Mimic" example in the book is a very well-built mimic character that you may want to use as a guide. You don't have to copy it exactly, but spending similar amounts of points on the various traits (Abilities, Attack/Def, Saves, Feats, Skills and Powers) to the characters from the book is a good way to make characters that will work well.

[EndlessWrath]

Thank you for the help. to clear things up. I'm PL 10.

Are you using 1st or 2nd edition? I'm assuming 2nd.

First of all, you say that you have 150 pp, which to me sounds like PL 10. Realize that you have to buy EVERYTHING with pp, including attributes, skills, feats, saves, attack bonus, everything. Now, with a mimic those things are less important, but realize that if you spend all your points on your power, if your power ever gets negated (which can happen pretty easily) you will have literally nothing else (your defense and all your stats will be 10, you will have no bonus to any rolls). You may want to talk to your GM and have them help you out a little.

2nd.

Totally understand.. but if i have Rank 20 mimic...Not only can i take a power you have to rank 10...but also take your skills...feats....abilities...attack and defense...etcetera...all up to 100 pp. actually... up to 150 if i go all out. I figure though...that I'll spend 100 on it and then improve charisma (the guy's normal everyday life is acting..so perform and speechcraft) and then put up some skills and some feats like leader ship. And of course, up attack and def...mostly defense though.

I understand the negation problem...however...I have perception... and while its probable that I'll see the bad guy, copy his power, and negate his own power before he rolls the negate check I still should give myself a weak spot... as all good heroes need one. Additionally...the DM is as n00b as i am about it.

As long as you are conscious and want the power to be on. Canceling it is a free action. Read "Duration" in the preface to the power descriptions. Actually read that entire section on Powers again, it'll help you a lot to be really familiar with that part of the book (p. 66-71 in the hardcover).

I've done so and I'm still confused. I've also read a small pdf on Marvel hero stats...and found another hero... Mimic. He has continuous and 2 extra targets... and it looks like he can hold on the powers for a much longer duration. go to sleep..and use them the next morning ya know? it says he's limited. He has: "only works after spending a great deal of time with the target.". If no one knows this problem then *shrugs* I guess I'll just keep what I got.

Not quite sure what you mean by this. If you mean do you need to buy more ranks with Experience...well, if you find you want to be able to copy more traits from individual subjects, then yes.

I'll clerify the question.

If I take perception as an extra to my mimic power. Do I need to add +2 to the cost per rank? or just add 1 +2 bonus to the cost and thats it.

Hope that cleared it up a bit for you.

oh it did. thanks.

[Grynning]

Mimic. He has continuous and 2 extra targets... and it looks like he can hold on the powers for a much longer duration. go to sleep..and use them the next morning ya know? it says he's limited. He has: "only works after spending a great deal of time with the target.". If no one knows this problem then *shrugs* I guess I'll just keep what I got.

I was wrong actually, you do NOT have to be conscious to maintain a Continuous power. So yes it does stay on if you go to sleep or are knocked out. The bit about it being Limited that you mention is actually a power Flaw to reduce it's cost, sounds like they increased the action substantially. Flaws are at the end of the chapter along with extras.

I'll clerify the question.

If I take perception as an extra to my mimic power. Do I need to add +2 to the cost per rank? or just add 1 +2 bonus to the cost and thats it.

Perception is a +2 extra, which means each rank of the power costs 2 more. Everything listed under extras is per rank, so, for Mimic of all traits, with the Continuous, Extra Subject, Perception, Residual and Stacking Extras, you are looking at a total cost of...11 points per rank. (so, Rank 20 would be 220 points, outside of your starting points). Sorry I didn't catch that earlier.

If I were you, I would drop the cost by removing the Extra Subject, Residual and Stacking extras for 8 points per rank, and buy 10-12 ranks (80-96 points total). If you really want to keep Extra Subject or Residual, you can knock it down a bit more by reducing Perception to Ranged, and buy up a bit of attack bonus so you can hit with the power.

oh it did. thanks.

No problem

[Dhavaer]

Power ranks are not directly capped by PL, but powers with save DCs (i.e. Blasts, Stuns) or save bonuses (i.e. Force field, Protection) are indirectly limited by PL caps. So a PL 10 hero can take Teleport 20, but unless he uses a huge trade-off then he can't have Protection 20.

So you can buy as many ranks in a power that doesn't affect anything capped as you want? Or are they capped at 20?

[Grynning]

So you can buy as many ranks in a power that doesn't affect anything capped as you want? Or are they capped at 20?

There is no cap on power ranks unless otherwise stated in their description. However you will receive no benefit from anything that makes your Attack/Defense & Toughness/Save DC go above the PL. Movement powers and such have no cap. The thing is that at rank 20 you're usually off the scale (literally, the T&V table only goes up 20 steps) so there's little purpose in ranking up a power higher than that. I mean, yeah you can get crazy initiative bonuses or be able to move anywhere in the universe in a single action, but at most scales of play that's pretty irrelevant. "Anywhere in the Solar System" is functionally the same, see what I mean?

[EndlessWrath]

I'm considering just taking a few more flaws to even out the thing.. keeping it at a strict 100 points. I already have tainted and another flaw... to cover 1. Now I just need an additional -2...and I'll be set.

-------------

The real reason to buy ranks over your power level is for abilities that require saves that go against a DC set by a rank.

so I have 20 rank. the dc is 30 (10+20) + any other modifiers i don't know about. right?

[Grynning]

The real reason to buy ranks over your power level is for abilities that require saves that go against a DC set by a rank.

so I have 20 rank. the dc is 30 (10+20) + any other modifiers i don't know about. right?

No. That is exactly the reason for the PL cap. Save DC's (F, R, W) cannot go above the PL + 10 (so 20 for your power level). Damage bonuses are the same way since they're basically another type of save in M&M, except the base save is 15. See Power Level on page 24.

If you trade of max attack/defense bonus, you can increase that, but it has to be one for one on both sides. So, if you want something to have a save DC of 25, you increase your max save DC and toughness save by 5, but lower your max attack and defense by 5.