Roleplaying a CE Character

[WhiteShark]

For a recently started campaign, I decided to play a Dread Necromancer since they looked cool. I glanced at the alignment restriction, and I realized I couldn't play my normal LG paragon of hope and justice type character, so I decided to take it to the other extreme: CE.

However, a recent session with this character proved very discouraging for my new alignment choice. My character planned to kill an NPC for punching him, and the rest of the party felt like it would destroy the group (even if no one found out).

So, playgrounders, I have come to ask this: how I can play a CE character without tearing apart my group?

[Zen Master]

Well - being CE certainly means you might *want* to kill someone for punching you. Hell, you might want to kill someone for breathing down your neck while waiting in line at the local inn.

But it does not necesarrily mean you are going to. Even as CE, you are entitled to priorities. You may decide it's just not as important to kill a complete stranger for no really good reason as it is to remain with your reliable, profitable 'friends' and fight the 'good' fight to win gold, experience and fame. Possibly getting girls too.

Also, if said commoner dies from a horrible wasting disease days after your party leaves the inn, who can say where he contracted that Deathpox? And really, commoners have such disgusting social habits.

[Samurai Jill]

Also, if said commoner dies from a horrible wasting disease days after your party leaves the inn, who can say where he contracted that Deathpox? And really, commoners have such disgusting social habits.

See? The great thing about being Chaotic lies in finding imaginative solutions to your problems.

[kamikasei]

You're chaotic and evil, not stupid and incapable of restraint. Figure out what the character wants and have him pursue that without moral or ethical qualms, but don't have him needlessly antagonize useful allies.

[Tengu_temp]

The easiest way to play a CE character well - you're extremely selfish and will do anything that gives you benefits (unless risks are higher than potential profits), and you don't care about crap like the well-being of others, honesty, and stuff like that. You can still be friends with the others - just because you're evil doesn't mean you cannot be loyal to anyone.

Watch Firefly. Jayne is a perfect example of an evil character in an otherwise good/neutral party.

[BobVosh]

You are not an unreasonable man. You just want things done quickly, efficently, and preferrably with no remaining trail leading to you. Decide what you want, get it done. Simple as that. Bonus points for the meat around you liking you and thinking you are a good, and honorable, man.

Don't go Joker on em, don't go stupid stupid, chaotic stupid, and stupid evil. Since you are a necromancer you should have the use and feel of minions. Disguising zombies and other fleshy undead as humans/w.e should be done. "Oh no, some citizen slaughtered this citizen!" Just make sure to make each situation happen when you are out of the area, and unique enough that even if the party heard it doesn't sound like the same thing.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Find the man's house. Cloudkill his family. Animate them as zombies. Command them to grapple and eat whoever comes in the house.

[Avilan the Grey]

I agree wit the answers above, especially Acramos.
Remember that just like you wouldn't play Lawful Stupid, you don't play Stupid Evil. Or Chaotic Stupid.

Restraints, calculations and yes, at rare occasions, true friendship, will rule the day.
And remember, just because you are an evil b****rd does not mean you're not in love, or have a kid brother you would protect, or an elderly mother that you feel responsible for...

You don't kill people like a cat going after a fly, uncontrollable, instinctive and "screw the consequences". You mutter something under your breath, and you might (if you play a character with a long memory and a fascination for revenge) go after them later, maybe as much as 10 years later, after you have secured your power base, raised your undead army and killed the king.
Or you will most likely let it go, because people like that are just beneath you.

Oh and Belkar is a fairly good example of a realistic chaotic evil character, at least at the times when he does not kill innocent people in front of others.

[Demented]

From the sound of it, your party just can't handle Evil characters. :p
Maybe you'll have to settle for "Evil Light".

That is, do small annoying things that clearly underline your lack of morals but fall short of actually killing anyone or actively threatening innocents.

Express enthusiasm for violence; 'borrow' when nobody's looking; look stereotypically evil.

Expressing enthusiasm for killing/harming things is almost as good (or is that 'evil') as actually killing things. It doesn't matter if the rest of your party actually does more of the killing/harming than you do, sometimes it's all in the presentation.

[Aergoth]

Right so: I'm just going to breaky this up:
Chaotic; you don't have to give a damn about what you're doing helps or harms anyone else. You can do the whole "moral flip-flop/ Face Heel Turn" as much or as little as you want, with out great consequences if you're neutral.

Evil: You're self-serving, unnecessarily cruel, and your lust for blood/killing shows through much of the time. Given the choice between killing the swine and using speak to dead to get the information and torture... well, I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count. You're the tyrant, the mastermind, the one pulling the strings. You advocate killing enemies

Chaotic Evil: Not Stupid Jerk, got it? You want to play up both of these strongly. One day you might advocate just roughing up the guy, the next you hack their head off without batting an eyelash. You're unpredictable and you're allowed to things that "good" characters wouldn't.

[Riffington]

I think some of the people have been alluding to this, but I just wanted to say it explicitly. The majority of CE people have never killed anyone. CE people are likely to want revenge on those who harm them, but that revenge need not be violent. Getting his best friend mad at him, stealing his horse, seducing his wife, starting a rumor about him... all are evil but nonviolent.
Obviously, a Dread Necromancer might be more likely to be violent than the average Commoner. Also Dread Necromancers might not fit into certain parties - regardless of alignment.

[Samurai Jill]

Watch Firefly. Jayne is a perfect example of an evil character in an otherwise good/neutral party.

Late-series Jayne is Chaotic Neutral!

*breaks down sobbing and runs away*

[Eloel]

Just make sure you're not near Paladins and you'll be OK

[Samurai Jill]

I think some of the people have been alluding to this, but I just wanted to say it explicitly. The majority of CE people have never killed anyone.

Evil definitionally implies hurting, killing, or oppressing others. If you haven't killed someone, then you've done something just as bad in order to be Evil.

[Tengu_temp]

Oh and Belkar is a fairly good example of a realistic chaotic evil character, at least at the times when he does not kill innocent people in front of others.

Emphasis mine. He's more of a parody of the "stock evil character in an otherwise good group" than anything. If he wasn't a PC, he'd get killed by the others a long time ago.

From the sound of it, your party just can't handle Evil characters. :p

You're making it sound like a bad thing.

I think some of the people have been alluding to this, but I just wanted to say it explicitly. The majority of CE people have never killed anyone. CE people are likely to want revenge on those who harm them, but that revenge need not be violent. Getting his best friend mad at him, stealing his horse, seducing his wife, starting a rumor about him... all are evil but nonviolent.
Obviously, a Dread Necromancer might be more likely to be violent than the average Commoner. Also Dread Necromancers might not fit into certain parties - regardless of alignment.

So you're saying that revenge is an inherently evil act? I am not sure do I agree. I am not sure do I agree with the "the majority of CE people have never killed anyone" statement, either - just being a jerkwad is not enough to be evil in my book, you have to actively hurt others in some way.

Late-series Jayne is Chaotic Neutral!

*breaks down sobbing and runs away*

For me, Serenity Jayne is Chaotic Neutral. Firefly Jayne is CE or NE, with neutral tendencies.

[Shades of Gray]

You don't BECOME evil once you perform an evil deed. A man may think about torturing people his entire life, but he many not have broken the law. That man is still evil.

[Eloel]

You don't BECOME evil once you perform an evil deed. A man may think about torturing people his entire life, but he many not have broken the law. That man is still evil.

Those are different axis, there are LE characters...

[Tengu_temp]

You don't BECOME evil once you perform an evil deed. A man may think about torturing people his entire life, but he many not have broken the law. That man is still evil.

Depends. Would he torture someone if given the opportunity? If yes, then he's evil. If not, and torturing people is just a fantasy that stays in his head and will never leave it, then that alone doesn't make him evil.

Those are different axis, there are LE characters...

Breaking the law is usually a chaotic act, but it can also be an evil one, and sometimes it's neither chaotic nor evil.

[mikej]

Alignment issues always puzzle me, I seen far too much slide with people playing chaotic neutral or picking a alignment just because of the class restriction or PrC choice and never playing it right or cheating it. It annoys me to see someone play " Lawfull Good " Monk are never play it except write it down because the book said soo.

Chaotic Evil in general is in many cases worse the CN because you don't care if you kill someone and your DM says " your alignment is going to switch to Evil ". I wouldn't allow any of my players to play that alignment and how the overlook alignment in general ( above mentioned ) I strongly thought of banning CN alignment just too remove the immediate headaches.

Alignment is a base to start off with...not the entire manual on how to play such character. In my opinion to get the whole character and how he/she acts look at alignment and the mental stats. Right now I'm playing a CE vampire wizard, she has Int 22/Wis 12/Chr 20. Now she can go around killing people that look at her the wrong way but since she is intelligent she just plan out there death or better corupted someone else into doing it. If it was lesser stats maybe the snap at any moment and kill people would also be believable.

[Tengu_temp]

Alignment is a base to start off with...not the entire manual on how to play such character. In my opinion to get the whole character and how he/she acts look at alignment and the mental stats. Right now I'm playing a CE vampire wizard, she has Int 22/Wis 12/Chr 20. Now she can go around killing people that look at her the wrong way but since she is intelligent she just plan out there death or better corupted someone else into doing it. If it was lesser stats maybe the snap at any moment and kill people would also be believable.

Which is exactly what the majority of people suggested here - just because you're evil doesn't mean you're stupid and kill people for no reason.

Most non-DND games ditched alignment long ago, anyway. If they even had something like that in the first place. Alignment is a relic - what is the point of it when a character already has a described and complex personality?

[Kami2awa]

Black Mage from 8-Bit theatre is a good example of how a CE character can get along with a stereotypical D&D group.

[Tengu_temp]

Black Mage from 8-Bit theatre is a good example of how a CE character can get along with a stereotypical D&D group.

I assume that's sarcasm.

[random11]

You're chaotic and evil, not stupid and incapable of restraint. Figure out what the character wants and have him pursue that without moral or ethical qualms, but don't have him needlessly antagonize useful allies.

I'll second that.

"ARRRG I'm EVIL" is not the only way to play CE.
The best way to play a character that the group will tolerate, is to think about your character's goals, then decide that the CE alignment comes from your decision to reach that goal at any cost, and role play it that way.

For example, you can be generally a good and helpful man, that became totally irrational from need to revenge someone for something.
You will see any task that will not contribute to your goal as a waste of time, and become dangerously violent when looking for clues about your target.

[Samurai Jill]

You don't BECOME evil once you perform an evil deed.

Quite correct. You'd have to perform several to an extent that is at least as bad as killing someone. By alignment definition.

A man may think about torturing people his entire life, but he many not have broken the law. That man is still evil.

Then he has found other ways to hurt, kill, or oppress people that are valid within legal boundaries. No amount of thinking about or wanting to do something will affect your alignment until you go and actually do it.

But yeah, putting a CE character in a mostly G-aligned party is probably going to be problematic- you'll need to be very smart and very sneaky to find a way to reconcile selfish, short-term interests with whatever over-arching plot structure the group is following. Lawful Evil characters are generally easier to work with, since they tend to be better at working in a group, following orders, cementing affiliations and pursuing long-term ambitions that make keeping odd company 'just for now' more plausible. Heck, even CG can be a pain in the ass...

[Athaniar]

Alignment is a relic - what is the point of it when a character already has a described and complex personality?

See, that's exactly what I think, too.

[Samurai Jill]

See, that's exactly what I think, too.

It provides you with a quick and straightforward method for determining which monsters you meet require smiting.

...I'm sorry, but that's basically what it boils down to.

[Rad]

I would also mention this article on this very website. The relevant part is the second half (scroll down until you see the bold title of the second section):
Making tough decisions:
where Rich explores the whole issue in a very clear and practically useful way.

[banjo1985]

It's important that you have a group that will actually agree to have a CE character amongst them, which many will not.

Evil works best in a non-evil party when it's undercover, and can do it's evil deeds without destroying the goals of the rest of the party. For example, you have a party of generally good characters, who require information from a captive. Said captive refuses to talk. CE character can get the info, he's an expert torturer, but seems to enjoy it rather too much. Do the party let him get the info, no matter the cost? After all, it's useful to them too.

There is room for an evil character in a non-evil party, but an outright lunatic killer isn't really going to fit. In the OP's case it sounds fairly reasonable for his character to swear a grim death on the NPC that punched him. Thing is, it's the players that are bringing him down rather than the characters. The characters don't necessarily know that the NPC's house burns down the day after with him in it. An evil character won't ruin a group if played maturely, and if the other players are mature enough to let it happen.

[Zen Master]

Evil definitionally implies hurting, killing, or oppressing others. If you haven't killed someone, then you've done something just as bad in order to be Evil.

I'd say that's debatable. You can do a great many evil things without killing anyone. Heck, you can do evil things without hurting anyone, as such.

Whom amongst these men is good? Who is neutral?

The boss of the mining concern in afrika, who violent displaces peasants on the land he wants to dig for diamonds or precious metals.

The Sandline mercenary, who does the violent displacement.

The dutch diamond cutter, who buys stones in full knowledge of how they were obtained.

The random girl who wears the ring - and reads the papers, and thus has reason to suspect how the stone was obtained.

See - the above was the easy one. How about this:

The mining boss bought the land of a landowner. The peasants who live there are now squatters, and the boss calls the local law enforcement to (violently or otherwise) remove the squatters. These people are now doomed to starvation.

The boss is legally in his right. The police man in question is taking entirely legal orders from his boss. But in effect, the second example is identical to the first.

So who goes to Hell? Maybe all of us :)

[Teeka]

At the moment I'm playing the only evil character in an otherwise good group, and maybe my group and DM are a bit different than most, but things are working out fine for us.

The way I play my character is that he has different motivations from the rest of the group. For instance, if the party were asked to stop a group of goblins from attacking a town, the rest of the party would see it as protecting innocent people from savage monsters, while he would think of it as killing for fun and profit, not to mention people will regard him as a hero once it's over. His alignment doesn't stop him from working with the rest of the group, it just gives him different reasons for doing what the others are doing.

I see the challenge of an evil character as being to figure out why he sticks with a good aligned group. You don't just have him do random evil things, you think of how he can work with the group in an evil way. Evil people can still have friends and maybe a party member is a friend of his. You can have him be evil in small ways like not wanting to take prisoners, failing to see the point allowing enemy noncombatants to live, being quick to suggest torture as a way to get information from a captured foe, taking pleasure in killing enemies rather than just seeing it as something that needs to be done. Evil doesn't need to hurt the party and it shouldn't stop him from being a team player, after all they are helping him towards his goals, whatever you determine those goals to be.

If your character is a necromancer you need to figure out why he would want to travel with the group and what he can do to benefit them and build the character from there. The important thing to remember is that you are in control of your character and his alignment isn't what determines his actions, you use his alignment to explain his motivation for his actions.

Or at least that's how my group does things. It might be totally different for everyone else.