Why make scrolls?

[shadow_archmagi]

Is there much practical benefit to making them? I mean, gold AND xp down the drain for the ability to cast any spell you could cast. I can see a few practical benefits, like "There's going to come a day when I really need water walk but it's only going to come up like once so I'll just keep a scroll handy."

But is there really enough reason to justify a supply of scrolls (such that any given town would have at least one?)

[RMS Oceanic]

Well, the "I happen to have scribed a solution to this very problem!" angle is still a good one. Also, it's handy to gather material components together ahead of time, and a scroll is easier to cart round than 5,000GP of diamonds. In addition, sometimes you need more spells than your maximum. If you know of the event ahead of time, scribe down some extra fireball spells for that impending zerg rush. Also, you could sell the scrolls and make some money.

[Eloel]

You have spell/day limits. Scrolls go over that limit for important battles/days.

[Kurald Galain]

You have spell/day limits. Scrolls go over that limit for important battles/days.

Yes. You take scrolls for any spells that might come in handy at some point, but aren't worth spending a memorization slot on, such as Knock and other utility spells.

[kamikasei]

You scribe scrolls of situational spells that when you need, you really need, but which you can't necessarily anticipate needing when you prepare your daily spells. They also let you cast more spells than your daily limit, and farm out spells where caster level doesn't matter to items and reserve your own castings for spells with more CL-dependent effects.

Why would a town have scrolls? Well, outside of supplying adventurers, there's always the idea of lower-level acolytes/apprentices having scrolls bought from or donated by more powerful mentors or superiors, held back for emergencies.

[Eldariel]

Knock is a bad example, since it tends to come into play often enough to pack a Wand instead. But yea, stuff like Waterbreathing, whatever control-spells you aren't presently preparing, some Walls and so on that you don't prepare constantly, but still find uses for are great options.

[potatocubed]

Never underestimate what you can do with 50 scrolls of unseen servant.

[Eloel]

if you are going to get 50 scrolls, buy a wand ^^

[Hal]

Not to mention the fact that wizards can copy spells from scrolls into their spell books. If wizards aren't falling out of every tree, a scroll is by far the easiest way to transfer a new spell into your tome of awesomeness.

[Mystral]

Scrolls are very important for Clerics too. Someday, you really want to cast remove curse, pronto, but there is little chance you have prepared it this morning.

Also, you can make the scrolls, thenhand them out to people who can use them. A bunch of low level npc allies, each casting one of your spells, can be pretty devastating. Sure, some of them might not make the roll to cast the spell, but even a level 5 wizard casting a grade 9 spell for a scroll has a chance of ~50% to cast the spell. Also, you can supply the party's rogue, given he has enough ranks in UMD.

[Yahzi]

Also, you can make the scrolls, then hand them out to people who can use them. A bunch of low level npc allies, each casting one of your spells, can be pretty devastating. Sure, some of them might not make the roll to cast the spell..

If a 1st level cleric can borrow a bead of Karma for just 10 minutes, he can cast as a 5th level. Give him a scroll of Animate Dead, and in a consecrated area he can raise 20 HD of undead.

Now tell me: what LE church would not sell scrolls and skeletal remains to their low-level priests? Heck, they would lend them the money, because an army of 1st level clerics with 10-HD monsters is worth a heck of lot more than the paltry 1000 gold or so it costs. In any case, the expenses for this trick are within the WBL for 2nd level.

Scrolls are perhaps the most unbalancing part of the game. They turn wizards into sorcerers with unlimited spell selection, they allow low levels to use high level magic, and they make a mockery of the "spells per day" limit. In a recent battle my party cast entangle 9 or 10 times. The notion that armies would spend months make weapons and armor, but not also make wands or scrolls, is just silly. Every single battle is going to be like modern combat: you throw in your high-tech resources until you're all out, and who ever runs out last wins.

[Bayar]

I love my PvP artificier. At level 1 he is crafting and blasting level 2 spells. Plus, he can prepare spells according to opponents. Charger ? Invisibility. ranged weapon specialist? Protection from arrows. Wizard that casts Kelgore's firebolt like a level 5 caster and generally PWN's everybody ? Fire resistance+invisibility just in case.

Plus, get spells that you can use against people. Seeking ray. Swift expeditious retreat. Magic missile (just in case). Summon monster 1 / 2. Cure X spells. Bless. Doom. Sanctuary. Hail of stones.

Yeah, this tactic is effective. At level 7 switch to wands. And keep scrolls of spells you dont generally use as backup (or make them eternal wands if you think that they will be used more times).

Also, with the X artisan feats, cut your expenses down to 75 %.

[ericgrau]

Scrolls are invaluable for strange situations. A large number of low level scrolls are cheap and make you prepared for just about anything. They are the only good way to cast a utility spell when you don't know what's ahead of you; otherwise you could waste a spell slot on something you might never use that day. And since they are for strange situations, you'll burn through them very slowly. Scrolls are a must have for any good caster, and the only way to cast utility spells without a 24 hours notice. For many utility spells that means scrolls are the only way to cast utility spells period.

I had a battlefield control gnome sorceror with a myriad of utility scrolls. He was much more well prepared for any strange situation/trap/etc. than our party wizard. I averaged about 1 scroll per session, and there was never a way to predict which one I'd be using. Here are some I remember:
Spider climb: fire giant castle has trap on the ceiling, our rogue is a halfling
Comprehend languages, tongues: Sudden negotiations with an evil underground civilization
Legend Lore: Our party got our hands on the LBEG's major artifact
Locate Creature: Wherein the party gains a gnome LBEG compass.

For a lot of them I got a couple scrolls, for some I got more than that. All I did was go down the whole sorc/wiz spell list and looked for what might be useful some day. For example, I picked spider climb as my general purpose travel spell - over rope trick, jump, teleport and fly - since it was cheap, had a long duration and had best access to the most places. And I got enough to use on the entire party plus extra, in case we had to get everyone past an obstacle. Believe me, I had no idea I'd be using any of my scrolls the way I did, and most were only used once.

If a wizard is Batman, then scrolls are the 60's-style bat shark repellent (sitting next to the bat eel repellent and bat manta ray repellent, naturally). You just never know when you'll get an exploding shark stuck on your leg while lowering on your bat ladder from your bat copter to go after a cruise-ship that's really a hologram! (Dude, no joke, I couldn't make this kind of stuff up!) So go get yourself some low level scrolls for next to nothing in gp, and a utility belt to store them in.

[Deepblue706]

You have spell/day limits. Scrolls go over that limit for important battles/days.

Right. So, the rest of your party members don't have to hear you crying "Bwaaaahhhhh! I wanna rest now!" and continue with the damn game.

[Bayar]

Right. So, the rest of your party members don't have to hear you crying "Bwaaaahhhhh! I wanna rest now!" and continue with the damn game.

That's what Hevards sleepingbag is for. 1 hour to regain spells instead of 8.

[Muad'dib]

If a wizard is Batman, then scrolls are the 60's-style bat shark repellent (sitting next to the bat eel repellent and bat manta ray repellent, naturally). You just never know when you'll get an exploding shark stuck on your leg while lowering on your bat ladder from your bat copter to go after a cruise-ship that's really a hologram! (Dude, no joke, I couldn't make this kind of stuff up!) So go get yourself some low level scrolls for next to nothing in gp, and a utility belt to store them in.

I love that movie.

Edit: If scrolls are various Bat repellents, does that make Robin the familiar? And furthermore, what is the hilariously large bomb?

[AslanCross]

I find that the XP lost in scribing scrolls is rather negligible. To scribe a Lv 5 spell (many of which are considered to be extremely strong), you only need 1125 gold (change at this point), 45 XP (not even significant) and 1 day. Having the right spell on you at all times is worth it compared to that minor XP cost.

My wizard player was at first hesitant to scribe scrolls because he was iffy on the XP cost. I then showed him the formula and he then scribed 3 scrolls on the spot.

[Cathaidan]

There is another reason that people seem to brushing over lightly, but its actually the main time that I make scrolls. At caster level 1, it only costs you 1 xp to make a scroll. It costs you 25 gp to make a scroll. Scrolls are priced at 50 gp in the DMG. Are you really going to miss the 1 xp? I mean really? As opposed to taking a week of downtime and earning almost 350 gp?

Hey fighter, hang loose for a weak and I can help you get that masterwork whatever you're wanting. In return you need to hit me back with a favor later.

[Crow]

The best thing is that aside from the piddly xp cost, if by chance you do get so far back on xp as to be a level behind, you get extra xp in the future to counter it.

[Jack_Simth]

There is another reason that people seem to brushing over lightly, but its actually the main time that I make scrolls. At caster level 1, it only costs you 1 xp to make a scroll. It costs you 25 gp to make a scroll. Scrolls are priced at 50 gp in the DMG. Are you really going to miss the 1 xp? I mean really? As opposed to taking a week of downtime and earning almost 350 gp?

Hey fighter, hang loose for a weak and I can help you get that masterwork whatever you're wanting. In return you need to hit me back with a favor later.

You're confusing scrolls and potions on your costs. Also, in general, you sell for half, not full, so you don't get cash back for the crafting downtime.

[Bayar]

You're confusing scrolls and potions on your costs. Also, in general, you sell for half, not full, so you don't get cash back for the crafting downtime.

Unless you take legendary artisan (the one that lowers the cost to 75 %). Then you can make profit, because the cost is 37.5 % and you sell it at 50 %.

[TRM]

Does it make more sense to scribe scrolls yourself, or is it better to purchase them?

[Crow]

Does it make more sense to scribe scrolls yourself, or is it better to purchase them?

If you can scribe it yourself, do it always.

[AmberVael]

Does it make more sense to scribe scrolls yourself, or is it better to purchase them?

Scribing them yourself is a really nice deal. Scrolls have amazingly low xp costs to scribe, and you save a pretty penny or two by doing it yourself.

However, you have to have time, and you need to be able to cast the spell to get it on the scroll. If you're a sorcerer or other caster with limited spells known, you'll want to buy scrolls to gain a greater diversity in them. If you're in a hurry, you'll need to buy scrolls to save time.

[Triaxx]

Scrolls don't merely turn wizards into sorcerors, it makes Sorceror's better than wizards, especially with those fancy gloves that let you dig anything out of your pack as a swift, or free action. *blanks on name*

Besides, it's always nice to have scrolls of Heal when the Barbarian shows up with 3hp.

[ColdSepp]

Is it worth the Scribe Scroll feat for a Warlock? They get imbue item, which lets them imitate any arcane or divine spell. Just seeing if it would be worth a feat.

[Tehnar]

Hmm isin't it that you can make only 1000 gp of magic items/day? So lvl 5 scrolls take 2 days?


The thing with warlock and imbue item, is that per RAW a warlock doesnt have a caster level.

So now there are 3 ways a DM can look at this.

1) they actually have no caster level, so they cant make magic items, OR, can make them only at their minimum caster level

2) their caster level is equal to their warlock level

3) their caster level is equal to the caster level emulated by UMD. Now since emulated CL is UMD result -20, at lvl 12 you can get up to +30 to your UMD check. This gets broken real fast when you can create a staff of holy word or similar spell and then use it. Other then staff usage this variant is fine, if the DM doesnt mind your warlock creating scrolls of lvl 9 spells.

[Gaiwecoor]

The thing with warlock and imbue item, is that per RAW a warlock doesnt have a caster level.

Sorry, that's incorrect. Their caster level is equal to their Warlock level, per RAW. This, plus Imbue Item lets them have a lot of fun with scrolls/wands/wondrous items.

[Tehnar]

Sorry, that's incorrect. Their caster level is equal to their Warlock level, per RAW. This, plus Imbue Item lets them have a lot of fun with scrolls/wands/wondrous items.

Sorry, what I meant is he doesn't have a caster level for spells he is using with UMD. He has a caster level with his invocations, but not with anything else. Similar as a wizard has a caster level with arcane spells, but not with divine. So tehnicaly he has no caster level when trying to use a scroll of heal. This doesn't come in play except in 2 things:

1) when using staffs (which anyone with UMD can)

2) when creating magic items via UMD (which afaik only the warlock can)

[PurinaDragonCho]

That's what Hevards sleepingbag is for. 1 hour to regain spells instead of 8.

Dangit, what book is that in? I had one a while back, and it would be great for my current character, but I can't find it now.