Does the Improved Natural Weapon feat work with a monk?

[Paramour Pink]

"Improved Natural Attack", Monster Manual page 304. It's a feat that bumps up the damage amount of a natural attack, and the "trakcking system" (as it were) for how much it goes up is comparable to a stronger unarmed strike.

Is it a viable feat for the monk/other unarmed fighter? This isn't for a specific build or anything, I'm just curious. Is this the kind of thing that should always be decided by a specific DM?

[RMS Oceanic]

Yup. INA works with a Monk's Unarmed Strike, because said Unarmed Strike is a Natural Attack. I'm not sure, however, if it's worth it in a monk build, because the best monks are skirmishers who trip/grapple/disarm their foes, and don't worry about damage output. Fighter//Monk Gestalts, however...

[Paramour Pink]

Thank you for clearing that up.

Also, I assure you, I'm not making the best monk to begin with, so I'm not worried about being perfect. I just want to be good at the little I can do: hitting someone. I had all the other feats figured out except for that one, and you just helped solve the problem.

[Starbuck_II]

"Improved Natural Attack", Monster Manual page 304. It's a feat that bumps up the damage amount of a natural attack, and the "trakcking system" (as it were) for how much it goes up is comparable to a stronger unarmed strike.

Is it a viable feat for the monk/other unarmed fighter? This isn't for a specific build or anything, I'm just curious. Is this the kind of thing that should always be decided by a specific DM?

INA works with a Monk because a Monk's Unarmed Strike is both a manufactored and natural weapon for spells and effects.

Sage/FAQ answered that Effects means feats too.

So Joe Slow, the Fighter, can't take it because Unarmed Strikes aren't natural weapons for all purposes. They have proficiency, are simple weapons (they are in weapon chart), etc.

Most spells do treat them as Natural weapons though.

Monk gets best of both worlds: Both Magic Fang and Magic Weapon work on a Monk's unarmed strikes.

[olelia]

But they still won't stack because of the same enchancement bonus.

[Paramour Pink]

But they still won't stack because of the same enchancement bonus.

So then taking it has no real lasting effect?

Can anyone else confirm/deny that this would make it a dead feat please? If it is I'll just swap it out, but I assumed (<------keep this word in mind; if I knew for sure what the rules said, I wouldn't be asking) that whatever the monk levels might give me (say 1d8) could be built on with the feat. If that assumption is way off, I'd like someone to tell me. Saves me a feat.

[Kesnit]

So then taking it has no real lasting effect?

I think the poster was talking about Magic Weapon and Magic Fang not stacking.

[Paramour Pink]

I think the poster was talking about Magic Weapon and Magic Fang not stacking.

Thanks for clarifying.

[Tengu_temp]

I'm not sure, however, if it's worth it in a monk build, because the best monks are skirmishers who trip/grapple/disarm their foes, and don't worry about damage output.

And are worse at each of those than a fighter built do to the same, because their BAB sucks and they either have low strength, or low AC.

[Person_Man]

Yes, it works. There are a bunch of ways to increase your unarmed Monk damage. For example:

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Shifter Monk 3/Psychic Warrior 4/Fist of the Forest 3/Warshaper 1

Take Monastic Training and Tashalatora feats so that your Psychic Warrior levels stack with your Monk levels for unarmed damage.

You get a 5 or 4 level bump out of a Monk's Belt (SRD) or Superior Unarmed Strike (Tome of Battle - they don't stack though). Let's go with the Monk's Belt since its better, and cheaper then a feat.

Fist of the Forest (Complete Champion) increases your unarmed Monk damage by two steps up the Monk scale. Since you're effectively a 12th level Monk, this increases your unarmed damage from 2d6 to 2d10. If you're in a higher level game with more Psychic Warrior or Monk levels, you can skip this.

Improved Natural Attack (SRD) increases your effective size for one natural weapon size by one step, from 2d10 to 4d8.

One level of Warshaper increases your effective size of all natural weapons by one step, from 4d8 to 6d8.

Use the augmented version of the Expansion Psychic Warrior power to increase your size by two steps, increasing your unarmed damage from 6d8 to 8d8 to 12d8. If you're playing a mid level game and don't have enough Psychic Warrior levels to use the augmented version, consider picking up the Overchannel and/or Practiced Manifester feats.

Take the Scorpion's Grasp feat (Sandstorm). Now whenever you hit an enemy, you get a free Grapple check. If you succeed, you deal Unarmed Strike damage (again) and can finish out your full attack with opposed Grapple checks (which are easier then normal To-Hit rolls), dealing unarmed strike damage every time you win.

If you can't be a Shifter, take Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis) instead, which also lets you qualify for Warshaper.

This is just one method, there are many others. Here's the list of stuff. Scroll down to Increasing Monk Damage. Combine anything that gives you high unarmed damage with a high Grapple mod. You could probably get it even higher by ECL 20. But IMO, 12d8 is probably the limit of what a reasonable DM would allow.

[Keld Denar]

See if you can get a friendly caster to drop a Greater Mighty Wallop (RotD, Wiz/Sorc3) on you. It increase bludgeoning damage by one size catagory PER 4 levels of the caster. So, when the caster gets it at about char level 5-6, it'll increase your attack damage by one more step than INA already gives you. When that caster hits CL8, you're size will be bumped by 3 catagories (2 from GMW, 1 from INA). This means you'll do damage as a Gargantuan monk of your level. At CL12, GMW gets kicked up AGAIN, meaning you'll do damage as a COLOSSAL monk. Unfortunately, size scaling stops there, since there is no weapon size catagory larger than colossal. Still, when you pick up more dice to punch someone than your wizard does to fireball someone, you know you've done something right!

Oh, and Greater Mighty Wallop lasts HOURS/LEVEL. That means by about CL8, one casting will last the bulk of your adventuring day. If he spends a 4th level slot to Extend it, it WILL last the whole day.

[Paramour Pink]

A lot of these are great suggestions I had no clue about. Person Man, I only knew a few bits and pieces of what you mentioned; you even saved me a feat (I never knew about the Monk's Belt), and I was mis-using the Improved Natural Attack feat (making it weaker than it is, apparently). So you're something of a god-send in that way. Thanks all for the very helpful comments.