Are thunderstones magical?

[An Enemy Spy]

If someone casts detect on a thunderstone does it show up?

[Shhalahr Windrider]

No. It's an alchemical item, not magical.

[Shades of Gray]

In other words, It's like casting detect magic on a flask of acid.

[LurkerInPlayground]

If someone casts detect on a thunderstone does it show up?

Well, alchemy is usually just "magical chemistry" so it may as well be.

But no, for gaming purposes, it doesn't show up on detect magic.

[Lemur]

Well, alchemy is usually just "magical chemistry" so it may as well be.

But no, for gaming purposes, it doesn't show up on detect magic.

And exotic weapons are sometimes "magical physics." I'm looking at you, spiked chain.

[Inyssius Tor]

Detect SCIENCE!, now...

[AmberVael]

And exotic weapons are sometimes "magical physics." I'm looking at you, spiked chain.

If you go by the pictures in the books, yeah. But there are chain weapons that work...

[Raging Gene Ray]

This reminds me of Fullmetal Alchemist: "I don't need any supernatural power. Alchemy is based firmly on scientific principles!" Right, touching a chunk of rock and having it turn into a fully functioning loaded cannon in a flash of light is scientific. Conservation of Energy and something else.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

If you go by the pictures in the books, yeah. But there are chain weapons that work...

Not against armor.

[insecure]

Detect SCIENCE!, now...

Detect science
Divination
Level: Sor/wiz 1
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 30 ft
Area: Cone
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: No
Spell Resistance: No

Focusing arcane power inside you, you become able to detect the appearance of science^TM by scanning an area with your eyes.
On the first round of this spell's use, you detect the presence of science^TM.
On the second round you maintain this spell, you detect the IQ value needed to figure out how it works.
On the third round, you detect how long ago the sources of the science^TM have been there.

Material Component:
A catgirl, which dies in the process.

[AmberVael]

Not against armor.

I don't claim massive knowledge in that area, but I think I can see why they would fail. On the other hand, there are plenty of non-exotic weapons which would likely fall into the category of 'mostly ineffective against armor' as well.

[Shades of Gray]

Detect science
Divination
Level: Sor/wiz 1
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 30 ft
Area: Cone
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: No
Spell Resistance: No

Focusing arcane power inside you, you become able to detect the appearance of science^TM by scanning an area with your eyes.
On the first round of this spell's use, you detect the presence of science^TM.
On the second round you maintain this spell, you detect the IQ value needed to figure out how it works.
On the third round, you detect how long ago the sources of the science^TM have been there.

Material Component:
A catgirl, which dies in the process.

May I sig this?

[Dhavaer]

Detect SCIENCE!
Divination
Level: Sor/wiz 1
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 30 ft
Area: Cone
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: No
Spell Resistance: No

Focusing arcane power inside you, you become able to detect the appearance of SCIENCE!^TM by scanning an area with your eyes.
On the first round of this spell's use, you detect the presence of SCIENCE!^TM.
On the second round you maintain this spell, you detect the IQ value needed to figure out how it works.
On the third round, you detect how long ago the sources of the SCIENCE!^TM have been there.

Material Component:
A catgirl, which dies in the process.

Fixed. 1234

[Yukitsu]

This reminds me of Fullmetal Alchemist: "I don't need any supernatural power. Alchemy is based firmly on scientific principles!" Right, touching a chunk of rock and having it turn into a fully functioning loaded cannon in a flash of light is scientific. Conservation of Energy and something else.

Supernatural is defined by how used to it a society is.

[Flame of Anor]

Detect PROFIT!!!
Divination
Level: ????
Components: ????
Casting Time: ????

...

Need I say more?

And on the subject of weapons that wouldn't work, the warhammer depicted in the PHB is totally stupid. Have you ever picked up an anvil on a stick--much less swung it--much less hit anyone with it? Real warhammers look like modern claw hammers, except with a longer handle and a spike instead of the claw. The gnome hooked hammer is more realistic.

[insecure]

Fixed.

Heh, forgot that. Also, spotted a mistake.

This should be the right version:

Spoiler

Show

Detect SCIENCE!^TM
Divination
Level: Sor/wiz 1
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 30 ft
Area: Cone
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: No
Spell Resistance: No

Focusing arcane power inside you, you become able to detect the appearance of SCIENCE!^TM by scanning an area with your eyes.
On the first round of this spell's use, you detect the presence of SCIENCE!^TM.
On the second round you maintain this spell, you detect the IQ value needed to figure out how it works.
On the third round, you detect how long ago the source of the SCIENCE!^TM were created/implemented/brought to that place/whatever.

Material Component:
A catgirl, which dies in the process.

Shades of grey: Feel free.

[Kyace]

Material Component:
A catgirl, which dies in the process.

You can fit infinite catgirls into a 2 lb. pouch? How do they breathe?

[insecure]

You can fit infinite catgirls into a 2 lb. pouch? How do they breathe?

Answering that would just make more catgirls suffer...

[Avilon Rayne]

Shouldn't that material component be consumed by lightning or something? I mean, material components are consumed by the spell after all. If you're going to kill catgirls (something I whole-heartedly approve of) you should at least make it flashy.

Also, does a thunderstone have a SCIENCE!^TM IQ level? I mean, what if alchemy even ignores SCIENCE!^TM? It does require caster levels...

[Mad Wizard]

Maybe it should be a small clockwork catgirl figurine.

[Lemur]

If you go by the pictures in the books, yeah. But there are chain weapons that work...

Believe me, I know. But they didn't try to put spikes on them, and the point of them was primarily to entangle the target or lock down his weapon while staying out of reach. The killing blow was more likely to be dealt by a secondary weapon, or a teammate. A long chain weapon with spikes wouldn't have enough force to present a significant enough threat to justify their placement on the weapon, plus any additional danger they presented would also be a risk towards the wielder.

And it's not like it's the only impractical weapon out there. Dire flail is another good example.

Detect PROFIT!!!
And on the subject of weapons that wouldn't work, the warhammer depicted in the PHB is totally stupid. Have you ever picked up an anvil on a stick--much less swung it--much less hit anyone with it? Real warhammers look like modern claw hammers, except with a longer handle and a spike instead of the claw. The gnome hooked hammer is more realistic.

Thank you. I've had trouble explaining this very thing to people before, because they don't believe me.


I was looking at an arms and armor exhibit the other day, and I couldn't help but think of the discrepancy between the current trend in fantasy weapon designs and the real things. Some of the weapons and armor out there is actually quite ornate, in ways you might not always expect even. But it's nothing like some of the modern fantasy artwork out there. Looking at the art in the 4th ed. handbook I can't help but think that the weapons and armor looked more like Power Rangers toys than actually dangerous implements. [/derailrant]

[AslanCross]

Maybe it should be a small clockwork catgirl figurine.

A catgirl figurine that beckons like this:

[RS14]

And on the subject of weapons that wouldn't work, the warhammer depicted in the PHB is totally stupid. Have you ever picked up an anvil on a stick--much less swung it--much less hit anyone with it? Real warhammers look like modern claw hammers, except with a longer handle and a spike instead of the claw. The gnome hooked hammer is more realistic.

To be fair, much of the blame can probably be based on historical depictions of Mjöllnir with a short handle and exceptionally large head.

[hamishspence]

or 3.5 ed art- illustrations on old D&D novels, and 2nd ed arms and equipment guide, seem to depict them rather more correctly.

[BRC]

I think we have a third axis to the alignment grid, SCIENCE!
For example, you could have a character who is Lawful Good Magic, or a Chaotic Neutral SCIENCE!

[AmberVael]

To be fair, much of the blame can probably be based on historical depictions of Mjöllnir with a short handle and exceptionally large head.

Obviously Thor was compensating for something.
...>.<
Puts a new meaning on Thunderstones.

[Devils_Advocate]

It's dumb that you need to be able to cast spells to craft alchemical items (and to use wands, staffs, and scrolls, for that matter). I suggest house-ruling it out.

[LurkerInPlayground]

This reminds me of Fullmetal Alchemist: "I don't need any supernatural power. Alchemy is based firmly on scientific principles!" Right, touching a chunk of rock and having it turn into a fully functioning loaded cannon in a flash of light is scientific. Conservation of Energy and something else.

It doesn't really help establish the ethos of the professional "alchemists" when they confuse a scientific law with a ethics and values.

Chemical reactions conserves matter. Matter and energy cannot be destroyed. Then they mix the two laws and raise it to the status of cultural practice, assuming that social rules of fairness and economy actually had anything to do with it.

This is as patently stupid as calling people who believe in evolution "Darwinists." Even though there is no such thing and that "Social Darwinism" is a completely different thing from evolution.

It's headbangingly stupid.

I don't even want to get into the rant about any "sufficiently advanced science." Suffice it to say, D&D magic is just a science that has a lot of art involved in its practice. (So does real-life science, but real-life science is a more tedious and boring process that doesn't always yield breakthrough insights everyday.) And fantasy is nothing if not about glorifying the handcrafted bits of special knowledge that the protagonists possess.

[Asbestos]

I was looking at an arms and armor exhibit the other day, and I couldn't help but think of the discrepancy between the current trend in fantasy weapon designs and the real things. Some of the weapons and armor out there is actually quite ornate, in ways you might not always expect even. But it's nothing like some of the modern fantasy artwork out there. Looking at the art in the 4th ed. handbook I can't help but think that the weapons and armor looked more like Power Rangers toys than actually dangerous implements.

I think we're better off without ludicrous codpieces in the PHB. (WARNING: The link is from Wikipedia and is totally safe, if you don't think about it too much... that one on the far right has a face!!! WTF?!) And the armor of Henry the VIII has quite the famous crotch plate as well.

So yeah, sometimes it's good that fantasy armor isn't realistic.

...

Don't forget that Detect SCIENCE! is blocked by various materials of varying thickness, as if it were some sort of radiation obeying the laws of physics and not a magical spell...