M&M's 1930's Weapons that do Will Damage

[lisiecki]

So, Im starting a new M&M game this saturday, playing an invenotor who has already survived multiple time periods. This will be his earliest yet, takeing place in the 1930's.
The GM has offered me two choices
1) Be a "Realistic" inventor, such as Ford or Edison and be limited to "realistic" weapons and gear of the time
OR
2) play as a super scientist, in the Luthor of Stark vein.

He has implyed very heavily that if i chose to play a Super Scientest, that he will become more of a high profile target during adventures, but if he limits him self to more convetional items he will not be seen as as large at threat compared to the superpowered characters.

The PC's seem to lack any weapons at all that require Will Saves.
So im wondering, what is a weapon that exist in the 1930's and be fairly "realistic"

[BardicDuelist]

So, Im starting a new M&M game this saturday, playing an invenotor who has already survived multiple time periods. This will be his earliest yet, takeing place in the 1930's.
The GM has offered me two choices
1) Be a "Realistic" inventor, such as Ford or Edison and be limited to "realistic" weapons and gear of the time
OR
2) play as a super scientist, in the Luthor of Stark vein.

He has implyed very heavily that if i chose to play a Super Scientest, that he will become more of a high profile target during adventures, but if he limits him self to more convetional items he will not be seen as as large at threat compared to the superpowered characters.

The PC's seem to lack any weapons at all that require Will Saves.
So im wondering, what is a weapon that exist in the 1930's and be fairly "realistic"

Realistic weapons that require will saves? Can you give an example of one in ANY era? (and here come the bad internet pictures)

[BobVosh]

Realistic weapons that require will saves? Can you give an example of one in ANY era? (and here come the bad internet pictures)

Hmm. *Insert your least favorite song* Ya, that will drive anyone crazy. Man is it terrible.

[lisiecki]

Realistic weapons that require will saves? Can you give an example of one in ANY era? (and here come the bad internet pictures)

The only thing I've been able to think of is some sort of psychoactive drug loaded in to a dart gun type weapon, and even that seems like it would be more of a fort save

[BardicDuelist]

The only thing I've been able to think of is some sort of psychoactive drug loaded in to a dart gun type weapon, and even that seems like it would be more of a fort save

That's what I mean. There really isn't a reason for a will save in a realistic game, unless you get into brain washing, but that takes far too long to be used as a weapon, and will often be portrayed unrealistically anyway.

Will saves in M&M are for "psycic" powers, weapons, magic, etc. If you have to be realistic, then you won't have any.

[lisiecki]

That's what I mean. There really isn't a reason for a will save in a realistic game, unless you get into brain washing, but that takes far too long to be used as a weapon, and will often be portrayed unrealistically anyway.

Will saves in M&M are for "psycic" powers, weapons, magic, etc. If you have to be realistic, then you won't have any.

Eh, Ill Just do my best to convince the other PC's to take them

[lisiecki]

Hmm. *Insert your least favorite song* Ya, that will drive anyone crazy. Man is it terrible.

Hmmm that would make a good version for Stun

[lisiecki]

OH OH OH OH!!!!

Ok im watching 24
dose , Hyoscine-pentothal have any basis in real life?
Even a lil?

[Learnedguy]

Oh, I know!

That stuff they use on Batman in Batman Begins!

[Oracle_Hunter]

Hypnotism!

Remember that, in the late 19th century and early 20th, there was a resurgence in the study of various mystic practices. Why not have your Mad Scientist take an interest in these studies, but only to distill the Science that must be behind them.

If you want to keep things as devices, rather than pure hypnotic techniques, then make for some Sonic Guns that emit tones which can induce auto-hypnosis in certain susceptible people, causing them to enter an altered state.

You can also use colors, rhythmic noises, and so on, if sound isn't to your liking

[Tsotha-lanti]

OH OH OH OH!!!!

Ok im watching 24
dose , Hyoscine-pentothal have any basis in real life?
Even a lil?

It's a fictional drug almost certainly based on sodium thiopental (or Sodium Pentothal, a brand name for the stuff). That's definitely a Fort effect, though, since it's a drug, and what it actually does is decrease your brain function (being a barbiturate), which makes you likely to babble. The exact same drug is used for euthanasia and lethal injection - the victim is placed in a coma which leads to death.

The 24 version just causes pain. That's a Fort effect again, pretty much. Resisting the torture associated would be a separate Intimidate vs. Will deal.

[lisiecki]

It's a fictional drug almost certainly based on sodium thiopental (or Sodium Pentothal, a brand name for the stuff). That's definitely a Fort effect, though, since it's a drug, and what it actually does is decrease your brain function (being a barbiturate), which makes you likely to babble. The exact same drug is used for euthanasia and lethal injection - the victim is placed in a coma which leads to death.

The 24 version just causes pain. That's a Fort effect again, pretty much. Resisting the torture associated would be a separate Intimidate vs. Will deal.

Maybe I can convince the GM that the PC has created a drug that causes pain that is purely mental, causing parts of the brain to misfire and such, not actually causing any damage to the target on a physical level.

If not the Fear gas and Hypnotism ideas are both pretty solid

[Jalor]

Darts tipped with a chemical inducing psychological catharsis? The drug itself would take maybe a difficult Fort save, but it would then force Will saves.

[Knaight]

Hypnotism is probably your best bet, just because pulling out a pendulum with a spinning circle on it that hums a hypnotic tune is so awesome.

[lisiecki]

Hypnotism is probably your best bet, just because pulling out a pendulum with a spinning circle on it that hums a hypnotic tune is so awesome.

It dose sound pretty cool, but i'm not sure how "Real" he wants the science to sound. I cant bring my self to say IS real, but SOUNDS real.

[Tsotha-lanti]

Maybe I can convince the GM that the PC has created a drug that causes pain that is purely mental, causing parts of the brain to misfire and such, not actually causing any damage to the target on a physical level.

If not the Fear gas and Hypnotism ideas are both pretty solid

The thing is, any physical agent would probably be less effective on someone who is healthy and resistant - poisons and drugs are pretty clearly Fort effects. "Purely mental" pain would probably be a psychic attack.

Why is your GM such a ****, anyway? And why do you care if you are as important a target as the rest of the party? If you're as powerful as they are, you're as enticing a target in any fight. If you're less powerful, you're less of a target. "Realistic superhero" is an oxymoron.

[lisiecki]

The thing is, any physical agent would probably be less effective on someone who is healthy and resistant - poisons and drugs are pretty clearly Fort effects. "Purely mental" pain would probably be a psychic attack.

You really do have a point there.

Why is your GM such a ****, anyway?

Acually i really like the GM, the only one ive ever really trusted, he runs one heck of a game, and im looking foward to seeing where hes going with this

And why do you care if you are as important a target as the rest of the party? If you're as powerful as they are, you're as enticing a target in any fight.

Typically i would aggree, but he told us part of the plot worked off this point. As every one else wanted to play more obvious nonhuman characters, I would like to try this route to explore that plot.

If you're less powerful, you're less of a target. "Realistic superhero" is an oxymoron.

Its a setting where the change between regular history, and the history of the setting changed in the last month.
Like i said, hes a good GM and im honestly looking forward to where hes going with it

[Tengu_temp]

Why is your GM such a ****, anyway?

...What? I've read the OP three times and can't find a single example of the GM's dickery.

As for the actual idea, I suggest some sort of psychotropic gas. Will save is required to ignore the hallucinations it causes.

[lisiecki]

...What? I've read the OP three times and can't find a single example of the GM's dickery.

As for the actual idea, I suggest some sort of psychotropic gas. Will save is required to ignore the hallucinations it causes.

Ya I'm lost on that as well.
Im actually quite fond of the GM and i think this is an interesting idea, the difference between a scientist and a super scientist in the same setting.

the reason im here asking, is because i know NOTHING about modern weapons. Or i guess it would be better to say ANY weapons after the start to the civil war.

[Tsotha-lanti]

This bit:

He has implyed very heavily that if i chose to play a Super Scientest, that he will become more of a high profile target during adventures, but if he limits him self to more convetional items he will not be seen as as large at threat compared to the superpowered characters.

Singling out a character as a target for absolutely no reason? Yeah, that's being a ****.

[lisiecki]

This bit:



Singling out a character as a target for absolutely no reason? Yeah, that's being a ****.

Oh sorry, perhaps i put the wrong inflection on it.
There are currently 4 characters
My self
A Sentient Dust Cloud
A Super Plague Dog
and well, the last player is basically an Orc

The game takes place in 1930's Midwest, its time line and ours diverged a month or two ago game wise.
From what the GM has told us, the various SuperPowered PC's and NPC's have a Highlander type ability to know where one another are when there near one another.
So if the bad guy of the week is fighting the party, its reasonable that the would go after the dustman, the plague zombie, or the giant with a stick, before they go after a guy with a sub machine gun.

However the most interesting part about this for me personally will be seeing how the setting is different for those super powered individuals, than it is for a non super powered character

[BardicDuelist]

Saying hypnosis, or hypnosis machines are "realistic" is pretty far fetched. The machine part would be super-science in my book, and the actual hypnosis part (my father being a professional magician and myself knowing several "hypnotists") is, as Penn and Teller put it, Bull $#!^.

Now, with the setting, it would be very thematic.

[Dublock]

He has implyed very heavily that if i chose to play a Super Scientest, that he will become more of a high profile target during adventures, but if he limits him self to more convetional items he will not be seen as as large at threat compared to the superpowered characters. "

Thats not a sign of a bad GM, but one that tells people what will happen if they choose that type of character before the game starts. If he didn't give an advance warning and then focused on the super scientest, then I'll understand being mad at the GM.

If the science doesn't have to be super realistic, how about a weapon that tricks the mind into thinking its in pain. The pain could inflict hp damage and fear effects, which would be a will save.

[Storm Bringer]

I can think of a few semi-plausible methords of inducing will saves for a 1930's mad scientist:

1) ultrasonic emmiter, whoose focused sound waves hamper concentration and prevent a traget focusing properly (ie, suffer penalties on rolls)

2) a highly modified projection system that displays a series of patterns and colour mixes that induces voilent nuesea an voimiting in the viewer. Can be set to focus the projection over a smallish arc, like, say, a single person viewpoint. (will save or lose an action due to vomiting etc)

3)a carefully modulated electric shock, delivered vai joker style hand buzzer or by a club of some sort, that can cause short term distruption of the nervous system (touch attack, save or suffer paralasis/attack penalties)

4) a very high powered flashbulb system, used as a blinding attack.

5) directional speaker system that emits a specific set of frquences that can override consious control and give directions to the body (ie. Mind Control, via a audio medium)

5) a variant of number 4, instead of a single bright flash, this system is a series of less powerful flashes that are designed to draw attention to the emmiter, which is disposeable, and thrown to draw fire (ie will save or waste attacks on a decoy).


how do those sound for a few fairly 30's gadget ideas?

[lisiecki]

Thats not a sign of a bad GM, but one that tells people what will happen if they choose that type of character before the game starts. If he didn't give an advance warning and then focused on the super scientest, then I'll understand being mad at the GM.

If the science doesn't have to be super realistic, how about a weapon that tricks the mind into thinking its in pain. The pain could inflict hp damage and fear effects, which would be a will save.

That's the way i see it.
If i go with normal science, I'm limited to Feats, Skills, Equipment and Devices. (Inventions equal to things that could be invented from the mid30's to the mid40's)
The up side to this, is that hes still a normal human being. If things get to hairy, then he can put his device down and blend in to the crowd.

The characters with actual superpowers, (including SUPER science) then the characters are distinct from humanity. In this game there going to have more Mojo in them, or what ever it is that makes them super.
Having SciFi technology, or more accurate the brain required to build those things, would mark the character in the same way that the Dust Man and the Plague Zombie are distinct from the rest of humanity.

I can think of a few semi-plausible methords of inducing will saves for a 1930's mad scientist:

Actually, those are all really cool...
Between your ideas, and the fear cloud idea, there are some VERY soild ideas for how to keep him in the relm of "normal" science for quite a while
:)

[Dervag]

That's the way i see it.
If i go with normal science, I'm limited to Feats, Skills, Equipment and Devices. (Inventions equal to things that could be invented from the mid30's to the mid40's)
The up side to this, is that hes still a normal human being. If things get to hairy, then he can put his device down and blend in to the crowd.

The characters with actual superpowers, (including SUPER science) then the characters are distinct from humanity. In this game there going to have more Mojo in them, or what ever it is that makes them super.
Having SciFi technology, or more accurate the brain required to build those things, would mark the character in the same way that the Dust Man and the Plague Zombie are distinct from the rest of humanity.

Yeah. I can see this. It's like the distinction between being a "Badass Normal" superhero and a superhero with actual superpowers. Superman is much more powerful than Batman physically, but the downside is that he draws more attention from stronger enemies. And that he can't use his abilities without drawing attention.

Fair enough.

Anyway, to answer your original question, the best I can think of is the same general category other people are talking about- weapons that disorient using light and sound. Being physically tough and fast doesn't protect you from a flashbang or from one of those sonic weapons they're working on now. You know, like this one.

Of course, that's a modern device, but it's at least plausible that a brilliant 1930s-era scientist could invent such a thing without using transistors. However, no such thing actually existed to the best of my knowledge.



Actually, those are all really cool...
Between your ideas, and the fear cloud idea, there are some VERY soild ideas for how to keep him in the relm of "normal" science for quite a while
:)[/QUOTE]

[Sergeantbrother]

Come on guys, in real life people are required to make Willpower saves all the freaking time!

I mean, when you're being pinned by gunfire you make a Willpower save to move, when you see a ghastly murder scene you make a Willpower save to retain your composure, when a sexy member of the opposite sex seduces you you make a Willpower save to resist, when the bad guys capture you and start using torture to get information you take a Willpower save to resist, you take Willpower saves to resist becoming addicted to drugs or taking drugs you're already addicted to, you take a Willpower save to to fall to pieces when a loved one dies, you take a Willpower save to stay up all night working on an important project, you make a Willpower save to resist agonizing pain, you make a Willpower save to grab the secret documents out of the fire before they burn up, you take a Willpower save to resist anything that is terrifying and scary.

People use there willpower in real life, probably more than reflexes or fortitude. If you want Willpower saves to be meaningful make people take them for the same things that people use willpower for in real life.

[Asbestos]

I can think of a few semi-plausible methords of inducing will saves for a 1930's mad scientist:

1) ultrasonic emmiter, whoose focused sound waves hamper concentration and prevent a traget focusing properly (ie, suffer penalties on rolls)

2) a highly modified projection system that displays a series of patterns and colour mixes that induces voilent nuesea an voimiting in the viewer. Can be set to focus the projection over a smallish arc, like, say, a single person viewpoint. (will save or lose an action due to vomiting etc)

3)a carefully modulated electric shock, delivered vai joker style hand buzzer or by a club of some sort, that can cause short term distruption of the nervous system (touch attack, save or suffer paralasis/attack penalties)

4) a very high powered flashbulb system, used as a blinding attack.

5) directional speaker system that emits a specific set of frquences that can override consious control and give directions to the body (ie. Mind Control, via a audio medium)

5) a variant of number 4, instead of a single bright flash, this system is a series of less powerful flashes that are designed to draw attention to the emmiter, which is disposeable, and thrown to draw fire (ie will save or waste attacks on a decoy).


how do those sound for a few fairly 30's gadget ideas?

Number 2 is exactly what I was thinking of. Your scientist has found a way to illicit seizures, even in non-epileptic subjects, via some crazy light/color/sound effects. Purely mental, most plausible weapon so far that requires a Will save. Number 1 is pretty good stuff too (so is 6) The rest seem fort/reflexy (3/4) to me, or too implausible (5)

[Fishy]

Reading the title of the thread, my first thought was 'Peanut butter M&Ms make me take Will damage...'

Anyway. How about Magnets? There are certain things you can do to a human brain with a powerful enough magnetic field, properly applied. Move some electrons around, and you can induce paranoia, religious fervor, all kinds of stuff. And it wouldn't be -too- far outside the tech level: Tesla was doing some crazy stuff with electromagnetism around that time, and if he hand any training in neurobiology, you know he'd try to build one of those...

[Thane of Fife]

Not exactly 1930's, but in answer to what kind of weapon requires a Will Save:

This one, perhaps?