d20 modurn

[ivendale]

A good rule sistem, but the money... Why the stupid point system!?!?!?

Example: "hello good shop ceaper" said the gunslinger, "how much for a Colt Anaconda 4 inch?" the shop ceaper replied, "that will run you for 15 points pluss 3 points for ammo." the adventurure thought about it and concluded that after attaining second level he had just enough points to buy the equipment.

Bring back the gold, people, bring it back...

[KKL]

What's worse is that tough heroes don't get full BAB as a frontliner.

And like in 3.5e, DR comes about fifty days after it'd be remotely useful. DR 1/- at 5th level? lolk I'll just file it over there with the USELESS abilities. Because who gives a flying crap about DR 1 at fifth goddamn level?

[mikeejimbo]

I think the "money" system is supposed to represent an abstraction of resources and credit, and the ability to take out and pay back loans, etc.

I mean, I don't think it's a very good abstraction, but that was their theory.

[Grynning]

While the intent of your post is fine, your spelling hurts my soul. Please pay attention to the little red lines.

Anyways, d20 Modern has a lot of potential, I've just never really had a campaign get off the ground. If you want approximate money values for equipment, I believe that the d20 armory book does have prices in dollars, and the Palladium Guide to Modern Weapons (which is made for a different system but adaptable) has them for sure, albeit a bit outdated at this point.

Also, Google. Make your own list. Will take a bit of time but may be fun. Pretend you're an adventurer shopping while you do it.

[Raz]

Yes, it is supposed to represent cash on hand as well as credit.

Overall it's not a difficult system to figure out, and it helps me keep from having to track every CENT and dollar I either dish out (as a GM) or get dished (as a player).

On top of that, while gaving hoards of gold is fun in a fantasy game, having to lug around briefcase after briefcase of cash to me seems...silly.

"All right guys! I'm going in! You! Cover me! And you! Take care of my extra wallets! Can't have them weighing me down!"


That, and I like this coming up on occasion

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0330.html

[Lemur]

I think they expected characters to want their own houses or something at some point in the game. And realistically, well no one pays for entirely up front, so your money in the bank isn't the same as your purchasing power.

Granted, Star Wars just has "Credits" which one has to assume takes this into account as well, but gives it the mechanics of regular gold pieces.

The whole wealth bonus idea is a bit unusual, I'll admit, but I don't have that much issue with it. It lets you buy expensive things like cars and whatnot, that you'd only need to buy once* while not requiring you to be ridiculously wealthy or completely depleting your funds after the purchase (usually).

Credits in Star Wars, in comparison, work fine on the small scale- your typical hero doesn't actually need much money to stay operational. Unless he wants to have his own hyperdrive, in which case he needs a crapton of cash or a special quest, i.e. GM fiat.

While pooling resources works okay for buying a single ship for the party, buying individual starfighters (so players who want to pilot their own ship in combat don't have to sit around cheering on the Duros Scoundrel) doesn't necessarily work out as well. One player may not have pilot, or may not really mind sitting in the copilot's seat, and decide to tag along in someone's Y-Wing, and instead use his share to buy his own suit of uberarmor or assassin droid bodyguard.

This problem doesn't arise as readily in D&D because situational items like vehicles aren't present. In Modern/Star Wars, characters won't always be able to use their vehicles**, and often when they can use them it's in an encounter that's vehicle-centric (car chase, starfighter combat). In D&D, characters typically carry all their gear with them, so they always have the option to use whatever they spent their money on, even if they choose not to.

That's a long way of saying "I disagree" but I do think the wealth bonus system does have some merit, even if it is a conceptual novelty in the d20 world.


*Unless your vehicles are destroyed on a regular basis- but if that's the case you should really consider just hijacking whatever's nearby when you really need a ride.

**Unless you have a character who insists on bringing his dirt bike everywhere, carrying it up the stairs with him and driving through the halls with his max'd out Drive skill.

[SurlySeraph]

The wealth system is annoying, yes, but it's hard to find a good alternative.

And like in 3.5e, DR comes about fifty days after it'd be remotely useful. DR 1/- at 5th level? lolk I'll just file it over there with the USELESS abilities. Because who gives a flying crap about DR 1 at fifth goddamn level?

*raises hand shakily*

[Nerd-o-rama]

*Unless your vehicles are destroyed on a regular basis- but if that's the case you should really consider just hijacking whatever's nearby when you really need a ride.

**Unless you have a character who insists on bringing his dirt bike everywhere, carrying it up the stairs with him and driving through the halls with his max'd out Drive skill.

So, unless you're playing Grand Theft Auto d20 (Vice City + riding your bike around the big mall + submachinegun = win).

Say, that wouldn't be a bad campaign.

[Sebastian]

Beside I totally fail to see what is the problem, Do you want to use money, gold , credits or whatever you want? Just use them. The GM rather that saying "Your wealth score increase by 2 points" will say "you gain 500$ each", you don't need new rules for it, you just need to ignore the old ones.

And about DR, don't forget the damage thresold rule, every time you are hurt for your CON or more you have a chance to go to 0 HP even from full health, even a DR-1 can help with that.

[TSGames]

d20 modurn?
d20 mod-urn?
$20 mod-urn!

I do not appreciate this solicitation.

[ON TOPIC/KINDA]
I think I would go for a Grand Theft Auto d20 modern campaign; keep the magic system, and that could be a heluva twist to GTA
[/post]

[FoE]

While the intent of your post is fine, your spelling hurts my soul. Please pay attention to the little red lines.

Us Orkz do nott cee prawblemm.

I don't have any problem with the wealth system, honestly. Do we really need rules for credit card applications, bank loans, etc.? Screw it. Wealth by level. I don't really play D20 Modern to accumulate shinies anyway, at least not to the extent as I do in D&D.

[Sebastian]

Another good thing of the wealth system is that stop the player from doing things like looting the corpses or taking everything that is not nailed down, which while it is an ingrained behaviour in D&D is not really appropriate for many modern settings and genres.

[Kizara]

Another good thing of the wealth system is that stop the player from doing things like looting the corpses or taking everything that is not nailed down, which while it is an ingrained behaviour in D&D is not really appropriate for many modern settings and genres.

Mugging people and theft isn't appropriate in modern times? What?

[LurkerInPlayground]

Another good thing of the wealth system is that stop the player from doing things like looting the corpses or taking everything that is not nailed down, which while it is an ingrained behaviour in D&D is not really appropriate for many modern settings and genres.

Well yeah, but adventurers in D&D don't always necessarily steal barstools and beat up old men for copper pieces either.

Besides, it's all a matter of scale. You can steal cars for example. Or raid people's liquor cabinets. Or steal the watches off of dead soldiers and then proceed to rifle through their wallets.

Perhaps you mean to say that the wealth system makes it so that barstools are worthless after you've achieved a certain wealth bonus.

[Dhavaer]

Firstly, ivandale, you do know that your Wealth bonus isn't spent like gold, right? Unless you're pitifully poor, buying a gun and ammo won't reduce your Wealth by more than +2. And KKL, you can have DR 1/- by level 3, and as Sebastian says, it's very handy for fending off massive damage saves. BAB isn't given out willy-nilly like in D&D, either; having only 3/4 BAB isn't bad when there's only one build that will give you +20 BAB at level 20.

[ken-do-nim]

What's worse is that tough heroes don't get full BAB as a frontliner.

And like in 3.5e, DR comes about fifty days after it'd be remotely useful. DR 1/- at 5th level? lolk I'll just file it over there with the USELESS abilities. Because who gives a flying crap about DR 1 at fifth goddamn level?

In a game where the death by massive damage rule is at like 15 points instead of D&D's 50, yes please!!!

[Sstoopidtallkid]

And KKL, you can have DR 1/- by level 3, and as Sebastian says, it's very handy for fending off massive damage saves.

Massive damage saves kick in at 50 points in one shot, meaning that 1 point will almost never matter.

[Sebastian]

Massive damage saves kick in at 50 points in one shot, meaning that 1 point will almost never matter.

RTFM.

In D20 modern massive damage saves kick in at CON points in one shot, i.e. if you have 12 in constitution and you take 12+ damage then you must roll a massive damage save, if you fail you go straight to zero hit points.

[Knaight]

Actually thats only D&D, in d20 modern its your constitution score.

[KKL]

And KKL, you can have DR 1/- by level 3, and as Sebastian says, it's very handy for fending off massive damage saves. BAB isn't given out willy-nilly like in D&D, either; having only 3/4 BAB isn't bad when there's only one build that will give you +20 BAB at level 20.

As a Tough Hero, I'm never, ever going to have to make massive damage saves, unless I were to literally EAT a grenade and pull the pin inside my character's body.

Also, explain to me this magic behind getting DR 1/- at level 3, instead of 5.

[BobVosh]

*raises hand shakily*

*Slaps hand back down* No you don't! BAD!

So people actually play with massive damage saves? Interesting...

[Lochar]

Tough3.

Talent 1 comes from Energy Resistance or Unbreakable tree.

Talent at 3rd level is DR 1/-.

[KKL]

Tough3.

Talent 1 comes from Energy Resistance or Unbreakable tree.

Talent at 3rd level is DR 1/-.

wat

Every DM I've played d20 modern under has told me that I needed a talent from both trees, and when I tried to tell them otherwise they told me I was wrong.

wat.

[Lemur]

*Slaps hand back down* No you don't! BAD!

So people actually play with massive damage saves? Interesting...

In D&D it is silly, but it's a different story in Modern, where removing it would alter the game significantly. Bear in mind that characters have much less offensive power, and you don't have uberchargers and the like running around. Setting the massive damage threshold at the CON score makes firearms a reasonable threat, since a 2d8 rifle, or a 2d6 pistol with double tap creates carries the risk that a single shot could incapacitate you.

Also note that in Modern massive damage brings you to -1 hit points, not instant death. It's basically a completely separate rule from D&D's version, and calling massive damage is a bit misleading to D&Ders unfamiliar with the d20 Modern ruleset.

wat

Every DM I've played d20 modern under has told me that I needed a talent from both trees, and when I tried to tell them otherwise they told me I was wrong.

wat.

Every GM you've played d20 modern under is wrong, and they are wrong about you being wrong. Maybe they thought it was a good idea to houserule it otherwise, but it's really not, since tough hero doesn't have a whole lot going on for it outside of damage reduction.

Next time tell them that everyone on the Internet disagrees with them. See how well that works :P

[Dhavaer]

As a Tough Hero, I'm never, ever going to have to make massive damage saves, unless I were to literally EAT a grenade and pull the pin inside my character's body.

Tough heroes don't get any advantage in massive damage saves beyond a 'high' Fortitude save, funnily. High constitution will help, but that's not a class dependant thing. They don't even have Improved Massive Damage Threshold as a bonus feat.

[Lord Tataraus]

A wealth system is actually a good idea for any setting/system where it is assumed you have a steady income and/or anything you would buy would be cheap enough considering your vast amount of wealth that there is no point in counting pennies. I regularly play nWoD and CP2020, the first has a wealth system and the second has a gp system (eurodollars actually) and they work with their own setting because 1) nWoD assumes you have steady income and a set amount of assets and you are never going to get a tank or shoulder-fired SAM launcher unless it'll cost you pocket money (i.e. you are ridiculously wealthy). Whereas in CP2020 there is a wide range of weaponry and equipment which having a wide range of usability and versatility requiring a more flexible system of buying in the form of gp/eurodollars. In other words, if the system doesn't care enough about the little differences to have the AK-47, M16, and Tommygun as "assault rifle" while the other has 20 different assualt rifle with tiny differences and balances with cost included in that, the former is best as a wealth system due to the abstraction and the latter is best with a gp/credit/eurodollar/whatever system for balancing purposes.