Can a Unicorn have class levels?

[panaikhan]

Simple enough question.

Background:
The party I am DMing for, lost their (badly unoptimised) Cleric last night to a minor BBEG, who then escaped.
In his laboratory they find, amongst the tied up and tortured-almost-to-death 'test subjects', a Unicorn and a Centaur.
I can run with re-working the Centaur into a half-decent cleric, but I was just wondering if the Unicorn might just fit?

The party are CL13, the cleric (because of race shenanigans) was L9.

[poignant123]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/unicorn.htm

A Celestial Charger is a unicorn with cleric levels

So yes. Unicorns can take class levels.

[Eldan]

Generally, if it has intelligence of more than 3, it can.

[Cog]

Generally, if it has intelligence of more than 3, it can.

This. Take a look here, a little past halfway down.

[Cogidubnus]

If a Troll can, I reckon a Unicorn can xD a unicorn's generally much smarter than a troll.

[Fhaolan]

The biggest problem with you have with Unicorns having class levels is the exact same problem you have with most intelligent quadrapeds. No hands. Which means no ability to use equipment (at least without someone else to help put it on).

A long time ago there was a thread about Worgs as PCs, but I can't find it now. It had a lot of discussion on how to get around the fact that the PCs had no fine manipulators.

[Coidzor]

Problem: ECL 8 as the base means that you're getting even less cleric out of a unicorn. 5 levels of cleric if you have it come in at party ECL, 3 if you have it come in at cohort level...

Centaur has LA+2 and the same number of RHD, but... ECL 6 + 6 class levels = 1 point of LA bought off. Allowing for 7-8 levels of cleric + 4 RHD + 1 LA and then the final LA bought off in a level or two at 9th level. Would get as close to caught up to the party as the cleric it's replacing once all of its LA was bought off.

Centaur: +8 str, +4 dex&con, -2 int, +2 wis, +0 cha...
vs.
Unicorn: +10 str, +6 dex, +10 con, +0 int, +10 wis, +14 cha

If it weren't for the fact that a favored soul would be even further behind than the cleric option, it'd be a a bit tempting...

[Thurbane]

For creatures without hands or generally not humanoid, the "best" classes are those not reliant on gear - Binder, Dragonfire Adept etc. Caster's too, but the RHD and LA usually hurts CL a lot.

You could also go for a melee class (Barbarian, ToB etc.) and concentrate on natural attacks.

[Amnestic]

The biggest problem with you have with Unicorns having class levels is the exact same problem you have with most intelligent quadrapeds. No hands. Which means no ability to use equipment (at least without someone else to help put it on).

A long time ago there was a thread about Worgs as PCs, but I can't find it now. It had a lot of discussion on how to get around the fact that the PCs had no fine manipulators.

That's what your pet humans party members are for. Taking the Night Haunt (ComAr) feat gives you Unseen Servant as an SLA (along with Dancing Lights and Prestidigitation) 1/Day. Assuming you don't get that spell to begin with and your party refuses to dress you, it can probably do most things, though barding might be a bit beyond its 2 strength.

[Thurbane]

Along the lines of Night Haunt, you could take Fey Legacy, for Summon natures Ally V. You could summon a Janni or Satyr to help you with your gear. A little overkill, though.

[Amnestic]

Along the lines of Night Haunt, you could take Fey Legacy, for Summon natures Ally V. You could summon a Janni or Satyr to help you with your gear. A little overkill, though.

Needs Fey Heritage too, but does have a larger and more awesome payoff for your investment.

[panaikhan]

Well, been thinking about this a lot.
Considering changing to Druid, and taking the alternative spontaneous casting from PHBII.

As far as racial HD, our group houserules you can remove them, if you lose all the skill points and feats and whatnot that go with them.

Sinse I'm trying to replace a lackluster Cleric (4 levels behind the group), I thought the Unicorn's healing powers would come in handy.

And the thought of a Unicorn turning into something Even More Dangerous via wildshape has a perverse appeal (and can give hands, and in some cases, speach)

[Serpentine]

The biggest problem with you have with Unicorns having class levels is the exact same problem you have with most intelligent quadrapeds. No hands. Which means no ability to use equipment (at least without someone else to help put it on).

Solution: Psionic and/or Sorcerer, don't forget Mage Hand or equivalent! :D

[Amnestic]

There's the Pearl of Speech from MIC which grants you the ability to speak one language while it's equipped to your tongue.

[Chilingsworth]

I thought Unicorns have the ability to speak as is?

[Fhaolan]

Solution: Psionic and/or Sorcerer, don't forget Mage Hand or equivalent! :D

Yeah, that was one of the solutions. However for a character that already has LA & RHD, taking dip levels of something other that the character concept just to make the character feasable didn't sit well with a lot of the people in the thread.

I believe Vow of Poverty came up at one point, familiars/cohorts, as well as reference to various third-party sources such as the Noble Wild book (which has rules for intelligent animals in D&D).

The point being that most of the editions of D&D are very equipment-orientated and devote a lot of time to magic items and wealth. Having a character who has very limited use of equipment or wealth is difficult to work within the system as presented. You can, of course, change the system to accomodate, but this is one of those cases where 'just because you can fix it, doesn't mean it's not broken."

(Broken in this case not being used in the current munchkin/overpower sense, but just as it not working well in context.)

[Choco]

You are the DM, you can give class levels to a salad fork if you want.

But in general, anything with a high enough INT score can take class levels. I mean look at all the awakened animals that have become all the rage to play these days!

[panaikhan]

OK. Druid got nerfed. I thought Unicorns were NG, not CG. Ah well.

The now-dead Cleric had an item that gave a permanent Unseen Servant, so no problems there.
Houseruling the RHD away and replacing them with cleric levels, I'm down a few skill points, down a little on BAB, but up on feats (yay) and keeping the caster progression up to scratch.

Would it be too much of a stretch to give a unicorn the Centaur Overrun feat? They're both large horses, more or less.

[Serpentine]

I don't think so, not unless it relies on the creature being particularly tall at the front.

[Chilingsworth]

OK. Druid got nerfed. I thought Unicorns were NG, not CG. Ah well.

The now-dead Cleric had an item that gave a permanent Unseen Servant, so no problems there.
Houseruling the RHD away and replacing them with cleric levels, I'm down a few skill points, down a little on BAB, but up on feats (yay) and keeping the caster progression up to scratch.

Would it be too much of a stretch to give a unicorn the Centaur Overrun feat? They're both large horses, more or less.

If you want to have an NG unicorn, there's nothing stopping you, you know.

EDIT:

You are the DM, you can give class levels to a salad fork if you want.

But in general, anything with a high enough INT score can take class levels. I mean look at all the awakened animals that have become all the rage to play these days!

Didn't want to derail this thread, so...
Salad Fork

[Amnestic]

OK. Druid got nerfed. I thought Unicorns were NG, not CG. Ah well.

From ze Monster Manual:
Alignment
Always: "This creature is born with the indicated alignment. The creature may have a hereditary disposition to the alignment or come from a plane that predetermines it. It is possible for individuals to change alignment, but such individuals are either unique or rare exceptions."

You want a NG Unicorn? There's nothing stopping you.

[panaikhan]

Ok... Druid back on the table...
Animal companion for a Unicorn? Or go for the alternate shapeshifting in PHB2?

[Chilingsworth]

Ok... Druid back on the table...
Animal companion for a Unicorn? Or go for the alternate shapeshifting in PHB2?

Well, if you take the feat Exalted Companion (BoED pg. 42,) you can get another unicorn as a companion. you have to have at least 7 druid levels to do it, though. If you don't have 7, but do have at least 4, you can take the Natural Bond feat (Complete Adventurer Pg 111,) it adds +3 to your effective druid level for determining your animal companion's abilities. Actually, even if you do have 7 levels, taking natural bond would be a good idea if you want a non-standard animal companion. Since most of them reduce your effective level somewhat, the feat will bring increase it, strengthening the companion.

[panaikhan]

Heh.
I wonder if we could go down the "Unicorn, riding a Unicorn, summoning Unicorns" route just for the Lulz...

[Fax Celestis]

Problem: ECL 8 as the base means that you're getting even less cleric out of a unicorn. 5 levels of cleric if you have it come in at party ECL, 3 if you have it come in at cohort level...

If you could convince your DM to swap its SLAs for natural cleric casting, and then let cleric stack the progression, it'd be worth it.

[panaikhan]

I'm the DM.
Our group also houserules that you can strip away RHD if you remove everything else a 'level' (i.e. HD) provides - such as saves, BAB, feats, skill points, etc. etc.

[Chilingsworth]

Heh.
I wonder if we could go down the "Unicorn, riding a Unicorn, summoning Unicorns" route just for the Lulz...

Probably not riding (unless the character wildshaped into a monkey or something,) but you could go with the a unicorn herd/horde route, I'd bet.

[Coidzor]

Anyone recall whether Fangshields Druid from Champions of Valor would be worth it for a unicorn?

[super dark33]

EVRYTHING can have class levels. Half-celestial-half-fiend-half-dragon-solar-angel.... i made it once and a few more of these, even a half dragon dragon!

[AtomicKitKat]

Ahh, I remember that Worg thread. Last I recall, we were trying for a mass takedown on the Ogres(like a RL wolf pack!). I wonder if we can still get back to the wiki page.

Edit: Found a thread with links to all the old threads about the WAP(Worg Adventuring Party)!

Edit2: Except for the part where none of the links are valid. AT ALL.

Edit3: At least we still have the wiki(or I guess a port of the wiki?).