Results 961 to 990 of 1493
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2012-11-21, 06:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
Ooh, my brain, the clash of perspectives.
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2012-11-21, 08:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
SpoilerCalling that Coyote's Tooth, which can split the earth itself or however he said it, is the end of/can hurt Jones.
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2012-11-21, 08:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- I smell chocolate
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
So I was looking back at Jones's earliest appearance, and it seems what may be the longest running mystery concerning her (the significance of the headmaster's response) has been answered mostly if not entirely.
Although the wording of her statement interests me in the context of her personal rules (only revealing things discovered by current findings). If she had seen something quite like Ysengrin's new body before, what would she have said then?Last edited by Pheehelm; 2012-11-21 at 08:39 PM.
A potent relic of the past. 'Tis said the wearer commands the wisdom of kings, and can see the unseeable.
Like the grue lurking in your bedroom waiting for you to fall asleep.
But perhaps some things are better left unseen...
Dazzling avatar by Ceika
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2012-11-23, 08:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Location
- Somewhere...
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
Jones must drive the scientists crazy. I imagine they've conducted every test they can think of on her - x-rays, ultra-sounds, probes, chemical analysis, spectrographs, psychological examination - and gotten nothing. I hope Annie doesn't tell Kat about this, Kat might be intrigued enough to join the fun and stop being a robot angel.
I wonder what Zimmy sees when she looks at Jones?
And Annie still hasn't asked about the stars yet...
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2012-11-23, 10:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
You know, I read further along in that arc after Jones said that. Coyote stops time to put a band around Annie's wrist.
Why couldn't he just stop time and take Annie miles away from Jones, then just stop time and continue to walk away from Jones every time she appeared?
If he's capable of doing this, then Jones' statement "You know I can take her if I wish" is inaccurate, as his ability to stop time would make it literally impossible for Jones to ever recover Annie.
Possibly Jones simply does not know the full extent of Coyote's abilities, potentially because she has no experience vis-a-vis the ether, or because she and Coyote have never come into true mortal conflict.
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2012-11-23, 03:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
- Location
- Watching the world go by
- Gender
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
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2012-11-23, 04:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
- Gender
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
He can stop time and allow (at least) one other person to move while it is stopped. That much is known because we saw Annie move and speak while it was stopped.
Of course, the thing is: Just because Coyote can stop Jones from doing things by stopping time and moving stuff relevant to those things doesn't mean that Jones knows it.
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2012-11-23, 05:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
I wonder if her body can block neutrinos . . .
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2012-11-23, 05:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
- Location
- Watching the world go by
- Gender
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
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2012-11-24, 07:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
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2012-11-26, 07:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
- Location
- Somewhere...
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
I don't know where this is heading. Is Jones about to say reality is subjective?
And I note she already knew Coyote's great secret. From the sound of things, she and Coyote have discussed this whole subject before.
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2012-11-26, 09:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
No. I think she's saying that Reality Is. Coyote and the other 'powerful spirits' had nothing to do with the placement of stars...
But since they were created by human thought, and human thought had those spirits place the stars, the spirits believe they placed the stars. And they have the power to do ... whatever, because human belief gave them that power.
And I note she already knew Coyote's great secret. From the sound of things, she and Coyote have discussed this whole subject before.May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.
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2012-11-26, 09:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Location
- Spathi Homeworld
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
Two things jumped out at me:
1) "Thought experiment". Why is it a thought experiment on Coyote's part?
2) The way the stars line up the figures in the last panel suggests constellations. While the shape of constellations has nothing to do with the stars being put in the sky, the selection of group of stars and deciding what this particular group represents is cultural. I know, this is kinda stretching it, but if we extend organization of stars into patterns to those supernatural beings which are products of human imagination, Coyote would fit right in. If humans imagined that starts were placed in that particular pattern for by Coyote-like beings, then from perspective of those beings that are products of human though, that is exactly what they really did.Last edited by fwiffo; 2012-11-26 at 09:20 AM.
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2012-11-26, 09:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
Because there's no way for current human technology to disprove his claim. Or the claims of the other powerful beings that make the same claim to placing the stars.
So, what happened?
Were the stars always there, and humans, by seeing shapes in those stars and assigning a reason for those shapes, end up creating beings that placed those stars? Which comes back to a question from earlier...
In humans seeing the stars and attributing it to the beings, did the beings they created retroactively place the stars so humans could attribute the placement to them?May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.
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2012-11-26, 10:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2005
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- Spathi Homeworld
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
Well, the other way to parse what Jones said is that Coyote did not do it, but he believes that he did, because humans believe so. Certainly, Jones experience that they were there long before any creatures were on earth would support that.
The phrase "Coyote will say he did it himself, and it is not a lie" is likewise interesting. A lie is a deliberate misstatement of facts. If I honestly believe something which is not true, I can state it, and I won't be lying - but that still will not make it true. So, Coyote might not be lying, but that does not make what he says to be the "objective" truth.Last edited by fwiffo; 2012-11-26 at 10:06 AM.
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2012-11-26, 10:30 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
Pretty much that... I think that's what I was trying to say... better words there.
The phrase "Coyote will say he did it himself, and it is not a lie" is likewise interesting. A lie is a deliberate misstatement of facts. If I honestly believe something which is not true, I can state it, and I won't be lying - but that still will not make it true. So, Coyote might not be lying, but that does not make what he says to be the "objective" truth.May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.
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2012-11-26, 11:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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- Earth
- Gender
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
I think to borrow from Hogfather a bit...
There were always flaming balls of plasma up there. Cyote put the STARS up.
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2012-11-26, 11:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
Why do we think Jones' memories are more likely to be accurate than Coyote's memories?
If the ether formed a Coyote with memories of a past that never happened why couldn't it form a Jones the same way?
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2012-11-26, 11:27 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
We're not. But we are using her as a foil to Coyote's claims and a little more likely.
She is an aggregator of knowledge, apparently; she does pass on that other beings make the same claim as Coyote and that they have a fair bit of power themselves.
If the ether formed a Coyote with memories of a past that never happened why couldn't it form a Jones the same way?
Which gets into another another thought exercise. If that's true, then what does Jones represent?May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.
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2012-11-26, 11:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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- On Paper
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
Empiricism, Objectivity. As somebody might have believed that a divine Coyote put the stars in the sky, somebody else believes in an objective, scientific truth
What is more, they believe that they can FIND that truth. They may be in a lab, looking at rock samples under an electron microscope, but in their hearts they are searching for something, an answer. They are asking a question, they may be directing this question towards rock samples, but they are still focused on that objective, unbiased truth.
Jones is that truth. She was never worshiped, there are no stories about her, but scientists and historians spend their lives looking for her. Perhaps, when they sleep, they dream of somebody who could just answer their questions. When a paleontologist holds up a bone and asks "What did this creature look like?" He's asking Jones.
She just chooses not to answer.
If a man dying in the desert can create a Coyote, who is to say that a man dying on his deathbed, having spent his life wondering how a mountain came to be, cannot create a woman who saw that mountain rise.
She was created retroactively. But she wasn't imagined as knowing anything specific. She was imagined as knowing The Truth. But the minds that created her only respect knowledge that stemmed from observation. So she must have observed The Truth happening.Last edited by BRC; 2012-11-26 at 11:45 AM.
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2012-11-26, 12:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
Why call her Data? Didn't Wizard of Oz with their Tin Man come before Star Trek? There may have been even older uses of this trope, though I don't know of them.
Personally I hope that Jones isn't emotionless, because I can't sympathize with, or feel anything for, an emotionless character. If Jones doesn't actually care about her decades of loneliness then why should I? If Jones doesn't can't actually feel things like friendship towards another person then why should we care that she outlives all the people she may have felt things towards?
To summarize: If Jones can't feel emotions then why should I feel emotions for her?
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2012-11-26, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
You don't have to. Not every character has to be a CHARACTER. If Jones existed more like a plot element thats fine.
You might instead care about whatshisbuts and how she feels nothing for him.
I completely agree that a story with only alien characters is boring and dull. But this story already has some very human and relatable characters so having Jones be emotional and shizz yo isn't vital.
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2012-11-26, 01:17 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
One way to read it is that, Coyote is, in fact, the creator that placed the stars in the sky. All of the gods are as old as they say they are and have done exactly what they say they have. That they have contradicting facts, and that they have a definite genesis point that dates to the age of mankind rather than before the birth of time doesn't make what they say any less true.
Some trippy thing like that.
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2012-11-26, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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- Watching the world go by
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
This is actually an interesting theory. She has no power, she just observes. Because she must observe, she is invincible and immortal and coyote cannot stop her. Note that nothing of import actually happened when the time was stopped. Coyote was just giving some information to Annie. If he had tried to carry her off, an event, rather than an exchange of information, would have occurred, which would have allowed the watcher of all to watch and follow the fleeing coyote.
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2012-11-26, 07:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
I'd say the closest one could call her truly emotionless while still being the same character is if she is a philosophical zombie. But even then, she would still have emotions, she just wouldn't feel them.
Last edited by Ravens_cry; 2012-11-26 at 07:51 PM.
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2012-11-26, 09:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2011
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
I like this theory. What Coyote says seems to bear it out. It should be possible for human belief to create an etheric being that they believe put the stars in the sky, and for that presence to then believe that it did do it, because the people's belief that it did it causes the being to believe that it did.
78% of all DM's start their first campaign in a tavern. If you're among the 22% who didn't, copy and paste this into your signature and tell us where you DID begin.
The docks of a small fishing village. One of the character's nearly drown trying to catch a fish barehanded.
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2012-11-26, 09:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
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2012-11-26, 10:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
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2012-11-26, 10:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: Gunnerkrigg Court 3: Mystery Solved!
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2012-11-26, 10:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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