Class and Level Geekery XI - Can Now Argue Three Times Per Page

[Matt620]

Can we guess anything about what Miron's dodge effect in panel 4 is representing?

That doesn't look like anything more than a successful save dodging V's ranged touch attack

[zimmerwald1915]

Can we guess anything about what Miron's dodge effect in panel 4 is representing?

When the Giant described the Order's second fight with Miko he mentioned that V had "no real attack bonus on rays". V misses with disintegrate about as often as she hits even when not trance-deprived. In this particular case she was making a ranged attack into melee, and taking the requisite -4 penalty to her roll. I see no reason to read anything into the scene other than V simply rolling low.

EDIT: ninja'd.

[Emanick]

Durkon doesn't have a pained expression, but he does have a shocked one (the same as Belkar, in fact, except that his mouth isn't open). Given his notable lack of reaction to most things since being vamped, I'd take that as strong evidence he was also affected.

Can we guess anything about what Miron's dodge effect in panel 4 is representing?

I don't think that gives us anything definitive. It could be as simple as V failing to succeed on a touch attack with Disintegrate. It's assumed, after all, that even with AC 10 people are actively trying to dodge attacks.

ARRRRRRRGHHH DOUBLED NINJA'D

[ti'esar]

I figured as much, but we usually see that represented with a "miss" unsound effect, not the target dodging.

Incidentally, I think we can now peg Miron as an arcane caster (I'm guessing sorcerer, but still no proof on that) at level 15+.

[runeghost]

On Miron, all we can say for sure is that he has some sort of teleportation power. It could be Teleport, or it could be something like Dimension Door maximum range straight up (a common Contingency choice).

People seriously do that? I've spent far more time in 1st and 2nd ed than the more modern flavors of D&D, but setting than up seems to be asking, if not begging, to get kicked when you're down.

[runeghost]

Is there any reason to think Laurin's attack isn't a massively augmented Inflict Pain? It can be augmented to hit multiple targets, but all targets need to be within 15 feet of another target, nicely explaining the need to hit Tarquin. It's a debuff, not damage, so it won't kill Belkar (or risk killing Elan or Haley).

[Emanick]

Is there any reason to think Laurin's attack isn't a massively augmented Inflict Pain? It can be augmented to hit multiple targets, but all targets need to be within 15 feet of another target, nicely explaining the need to hit Tarquin. It's a debuff, not damage, so it won't kill Belkar (or risk killing Elan or Haley).

I don't think the Order would react that strongly to a -4 penalty to attack rolls, skill checks and ability checks. It looks more like a mass paralysis effect to me.

But of course, all bets are off until 929 comes out.

[Reddish Mage]

I don't think the Order would react that strongly to a -4 penalty to attack rolls, skill checks and ability checks. It looks more like a mass paralysis effect to me.

But of course, all bets are off until 929 comes out.

Someone in the main thread suggested Mental Disruption. That one makes the most sense, but its the only mass "paralysis"-like ability I saw that is 360 degrees.

[Shale]

I don't think the Order would react that strongly to a -4 penalty to attack rolls, skill checks and ability checks. It looks more like a mass paralysis effect to me.

But of course, all bets are off until 929 comes out.

Speaking as the one who suggested Mental Disruption, Inflict Pain seems like the best fit so far. It doesn't cause damage, but it still makes the targets feel like they're getting hurt, thus the expressions on everybody's faces (and Tarquin, who knows the strategy, would be ready for it). It also explains the effect chaining from Tarquin to Durkon, because each target has to be no more than 15 feet from either the caster or another target.

[Porthos]

How's this:

Energy Burst
Psychokinesis [see text]
Level: Psion/wilder 3
Display: Auditory
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 40 ft.
Area: 40-ft-radius burst centered on you
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half or Fortitude half; see text
Power Resistance: Yes
Power Points: 5
Upon manifesting this power, you choose cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. You create an explosion of unstable ectoplasmic energy of the chosen type that deals 5d6 points of damage to every creature or object within the area. The explosion creates almost no pressure. Since this power extends outward from you, you are not affected by the damage.

Cold
A burst of this energy type deals +1 point of damage per die. The saving throw to reduce damage from a cold burst is a Fortitude save instead of a Reflex save.

Electricity
Manifesting a burst of this energy type provides a +2 bonus to the save DC and a +2 bonus on manifester level checks for the purpose of overcoming power resistance.

Fire
A burst of this energy type deals +1 point of damage per die.

Sonic
A burst of this energy type deals -1 point of damage per die and ignores an object’s hardness.

This power’s subtype is the same as the type of energy you manifest.

Augment
For every additional power point you spend, this power’s damage increases by one die (d6). For each extra two dice of damage, this power’s save DC increases by 1.

A Reflex save allows Belkar to live if he makes it with Evasion. It targets everone within an area, thus having the chance to get Tarquin (who is unconcerned because of feats/magic items/whatever). It can be augmented to include lots and lots of d6s.

What doesn't fit:

The possible chaining effect seen.
The pained expression on Laurin.

[tyckspoon]

How's this:

Energy Burst...


What doesn't fit:

The possible chaining effect seen.
The pained expression on Laurin.

Unlikely, at best - the Energy-Whatsit powers are psionics' versions of Fireball/Lightning Bolt/Meteor Swarm/etc, and we've seen those kinds of blasty abilities plenty of times in the comic already. Whatever Laurin used doesn't look anything like that. The art suggests that what is going on here is a targeted effect, not an indiscriminate area like a Burst would be (again, compare to various Fireballs and other spells that cover a swath of panel regardless of whether there is anything to hit there), and having it go straight from Laurin's head to the target's heads and nowhere else implies a mind-affecting power. At least to me.

[RMS Oceanic]

Looking through the SRD's power list, I see only three Psionic Powers that heal your own hit point damage, and two of them are Psychic Warrior vampiric buffs for your weapons. I think we can safely conclude Laurin has Body Adjustment, unless she decided to attack Miron.

Mental Disruption looks like a good fit: Easily augmentable to enhance range and save DC, it can also spare certain creatures its effects, hence why Tarquin was left alone. Also since it's an area of effect power, it explains those stray bolts of psionic power. However I haven't finished my read through of the power list, so I'm planning on waiting until either I finish or someone comes up with an even better fit.

I don't think it's Energy Burst. When Laurin disintegrated Nale, the only psionic display was around her head as the green beam sprang forth, whereas when she used that power on Haley, the display reached all the way to her. I think Energy Burst would be demonstrated with a display around Laurin's head, follower by fire/lightning/what have you.

Meanwhile Miron is definitely level 15 with the revelation of Horrid Wilting in his repertoire, and arcane with his Contingency, but it's still up in the air whether he's a wizard or a sorcerer. Unfortunately it may be we never get to find out now he's left the battlefield.

[ti'esar]

Mental Disruption looks like a good fit: Easily augmentable to enhance range and save DC, it can also spare certain creatures its effects, hence why Tarquin was left alone. Also since it's an area of effect power, it explains those stray bolts of psionic power. However I haven't finished my read through of the power list, so I'm planning on waiting until either I finish or someone comes up with an even better fit.

I see no reason to make a call now, since we'll almost certainly get more details next strip.

[Leirus]

Ok, this is probably nonsense, but... up until this last strip, I thought Miron was sporting some kind of light cloth, all beduin-like. But V called it a scarf, and that paired with the spell he attempted made me wonder if he could be a necromancer or some related prestige class. Who wears a scarf in a desert? Someone whose body has started to go cold, maybe.

I do not know much about D&D, but I was curious enough about the idea to ask here... I dunno, those seem the kind of hints the Giant would use.

[Flame of Anor]

Although if he could cast that Teleport, why did Laurin need to open a Wormhole?

To take the dinosaur, Tarquin, and Laurin, he'd need to be 18th level; maybe he's not quite that high-level (though personally I find it unlikely). Or, more plausibly, he didn't prepare enough teleport spells to be useful.

Which means the spell his contingency activated was almost certainly teleport. Does that in turn mean that Miron knows teleport? Does your contingent spell have to be a spell you know?

It does, but it could theoretically be greater teleport too.

[zimmerwald1915]

It does, but it could theoretically be greater teleport too.

Not unless greater teleport stopped being a level 7 spell. Contingency can only activate spells of level 6 or lower, and can only activate spells that strong if the caster is level 18 or higher.

[Flame of Anor]

Not unless greater teleport stopped being a level 7 spell. Contingency can only activate spells of level 6 or lower, and can only activate spells that strong if the caster is level 18 or higher.

Okay, yeah. It's definitely teleport then.

[Porthos]

I'm really rusty on some of my 3.5 foo having not played in years, but does 928 show that Belkar has Spring Attack? Or could he have pulled off that maneuver without it? Say with some sort of Tumble shenanigan?

[Coat]

Given that Psionic Greater Teleport is lvl 8, I think unless there is evidence of at least one restriction for Wormhole that does not apply to Psionic Greater Teleport, we should assume lvl 8 for it as a minimum.

I agree that Inflict Pain is an excellent candidate for Laurin's attack power in 928. The chaining fits, the targeting of Tarquin, and if you look carefully at Durkon, he is surprised, but his mouth-shape is not noticeably altered - there's no evidence he is suffering from it, which would be consistent with his immunity to mind-affecting powers. There's no lightning or fire or anything on any of the people affected, suggesting that there's no elemental damage - particularly considering the art for the prismatic spray in 927.

Miron has eaten a lot of damage here, with no visible healing - any chance we can establish a baseline CON bonus?

[Matt620]

Miron has eaten a lot of damage here, with no visible healing - any chance we can establish a baseline CON bonus?

He probably has damage reduction from his stuff, and possibly Toughness. Not a bad choice for a squishy caster who doesn't have a lot of long-range spells

[AKA_Bait]

He probably has damage reduction from his stuff, and possibly Toughness. Not a bad choice for a squishy caster who doesn't have a lot of long-range spells

Toughness is always a bad choice. It's kind of the go-to example of a horribly underpowered feat. I'm not saying he didn't take it, given the Giant's statements about optimization, but I don't think we should put it in the running for anything unless it's explicitly mentioned.

[Chronos]

Wait, why are people saying that Tarquin has immunity to mind-effecting? I don't think we've seen any evidence of that, and the only item I know of that grants it sits prominently in the middle of the forehead, where we would have noticed it.

I agree with Porthos that Belkar has Spring Attack. He also appears to be tumbling in those panels, but tumbling won't let you move both before and after you attack, and he definitely appears to have moved afterward (he's nowhere near him when Haley pegs him).

Even more interesting is the fact that, even with movement, he still got at least two attacks in (one with each dagger). Anyone have an explanation for that? I don't think any Pounce ability would work here, since those only work on a charge, and I don't think you can combine a charge with a Spring Attack.

Oh, and we have enough information to list Miron. We don't know whether he's a wizard or a sorcerer (I'd guess wizard, since a sorcerer is unlikely to carry Contingency, but that's only a guess), but we do have a decent number of spells for him, and a minimum level high enough to be at least somewhat meaningful.

[RMS Oceanic]

Point of order concerning Sorcerers and Contingency: Xykon has it.

I'd still prefer to see if anything shakes loose concerning Miron before making a final commitment. At this level of knowledge he's either Wizard 15 or Sorceror 16, with an Intelligence or Charisma of 18. That feels a bit vague to me, but I may be mistaken.

[Kakuro]

Would Xykon's hypnotizing of the MiTD in SOD,count as usage of it?.

Also, how much damage is Haley dealing with her arrows, if we take the icy burst effect into account?. And is the "frozen in ice" effect only available on critical hits, as it hasn't seen use since she took on the thieves guild?.

[Shale]

The block of ice (2d10 ice damage) only shows up on critical hits. The rest of the time she's dealing 1d6 base damage + 1d6 frost damage + 5 magic damage + Dex modifier. So, in summary, ow.

[hamishspence]

Actually in D&D 3.5 you don't add Dex modifier to the damage of weapons like bows.

[RMS Oceanic]

Would Xykon's hypnotizing of the MiTD in SOD,count as usage of it?.

Also, how much damage is Haley dealing with her arrows, if we take the icy burst effect into account?. And is the "frozen in ice" effect only available on critical hits, as it hasn't seen use since she took on the thieves guild?.

1d8 +1d6 cold damage (+8d6 Sneak Attack) +5 enhancement.

A critical hit with her bow triples the 1d8+5 part and adds another 2d10 cold damage.

[Shale]

Actually in D&D 3.5 you don't add Dex modifier to the damage of weapons like bows.

This is what I get for trying to keep three different systems straight in my head.

[Kornaki]

Laurin could have been using True metabolism

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/po...Metabolism.htm

and wasn't complaining about having time to use her power, but having time to regenerate.

I believe Laurin's last power is Ultrablast

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/ultrablast.htm

which nicely explains why she appears to be letting out a silent shriek of horror and some of the Order covering their ears.

(It's possible that as a joke Laurin's healing line could be the "psionic grumbling" which would be kind of funny)

[RMS Oceanic]

Laurin could have been using True metabolism

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/po...Metabolism.htm

and wasn't complaining about having time to use her power, but having time to regenerate.

So she was expecting Tarquin to wait the two rounds it took for her Fast Healing to undo the damage the Red Spray did? That doesn't make much sense to me.

I believe Laurin's last power is Ultrablast

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/ultrablast.htm

which nicely explains why she appears to be letting out a silent shriek of horror and some of the Order covering their ears.

(It's possible that as a joke Laurin's healing line could be the "psionic grumbling" which would be kind of funny)

The problem with that power is it does 13d6 (or 6.5d6) damage to everyone, which could easily have killed Belkar, and doesn't explain why Tarquin would just smile it off. You'd think he'd at least frown or grunt in pain.