Relationship Woes and Advice 24: In which the heroine gets the hero, or vice versa.

[leila]

@ Lorsa: Awesome advice, I do know what bothers me with the page numbers etc, and I can talk to him about it. I do know the rules, everyone gets them by rote after x# of years playing and that's what bugs me, when he quotes them at me I feeling he's questioning my understanding of the game. Unfortunately that means I'm being super defensive and need to be more open-minded to what he's really trying to say....darnit!

@ Glass Mouse
You are very perceptive and absolutely right! When we started our relationship we had that rule in effect (yeah...I'll avoid the friendzone discussion as I friendzoned him for 7 years before we started dating) and I don't know why I didn't think to apply it to this situation. LOVE the compromise suggestion and the metagame rules, we should hash those out before we begin and put them in writing so I can quote page numbers at him! Or, be nicer and gently remind him of our rules. Your feelings about LG dm's are kind of similar to mine, the minute they say it isn't possible, I set out to prove nothing is impossible in d&d with the right prep and situation. Cannot...resist....poking....cthulhu!

Thank you for the excellent suggestions! I'm feeling much more excited about playing and much less trepidation!

[Aedilred]

I love my s.o. but if he rules lawyers my alignment in this campaign I'm afraid I will lose my cool badly enough to destroy the relationship we've built. Our d&d styles are extremely different (I'm more RPG he's more hack&slash, he's a rules lawyer, I value creativity etc) and so far have been tempered and mitigated by other player/character involvement. I'm afraid 2person gaming will hurt our relationship. I have a horrible temper I keep in check pretty well, but when you're with someone a long time, there are buttons. When he quotes page numbers at me, I see red. On the flip side, I'm very excited to roll dice, its been far too long. I love him so I'm hoping I will have fun and relax with it, and I'm looking for ideas on ground rules we can establish to preserve the metagame relationship while we antagonize in game. I'm looking for what people have found successful in their relationships when they game together and how to reduce friction in our play styles.

It sounds like, inasmuch as it's behaviour at the gaming table rather than general personality inclinations, the problem is that he takes a very narrow and rigid interpretation of character alignment. Perhaps the sort of thing that verges on Lawful Stupid (or Stupid Good)? In that case there is quite a lot of material - and various threads on fora including this one - on how to stick to a given alignment without annoying everyone else at the table. Especially if there's only one other person at the table.

I might also suggest that he tries to break out of his comfort zone by playing a character who isn't Lawful Good, just to try to separate his character from himself (which would probably be beneficial for your relationship) and maybe have some fun in the process. Not necessarily a CE character or anything, but if he's keen on rules-lawyering (never a particularly attractive quality at the roleplaying table imho but anyway) maybe find an alignment that tones down the Lawful and emphasises the Good. It would certainly be worth having a discussion with him about what he's hoping to get out of the game, and what you want to, and how you can explore that without getting on each others' nerves... because if it's not going to be fun for both of you it doesn't seem like there's a lot of point in playing.

[leila]

It sounds like, inasmuch as it's behaviour at the gaming table rather than general personality inclinations, the problem is that he takes a very narrow and rigid interpretation of character alignment. Perhaps the sort of thing that verges on Lawful Stupid (or Stupid Good)? In that case there is quite a lot of material - and various threads on fora including this one - on how to stick to a given alignment without annoying everyone else at the table. Especially if there's only one other person at the table.

I might also suggest that he tries to break out of his comfort zone by playing a character who isn't Lawful Good, just to try to separate his character from himself (which would probably be beneficial for your relationship) and maybe have some fun in the process. Not necessarily a CE character or anything, but if he's keen on rules-lawyering (never a particularly attractive quality at the roleplaying table imho but anyway) maybe find an alignment that tones down the Lawful and emphasises the Good. It would certainly be worth having a discussion with him about what he's hoping to get out of the game, and what you want to, and how you can explore that without getting on each others' nerves... because if it's not going to be fun for both of you it doesn't seem like there's a lot of point in playing.

Fantastic! I love the idea of trying another alignment for this campaign, taking him out of his normal path to encourage him to change his thought processes. What a wonderful suggestion! I feel like I'm hijacking the thread so I'll stop posting but I had to say how much I love this idea and hate I didn't think of something so simple and perfect! Thanks everyone for the great ideas, I'm excited now, this will be fun! :crazyhappyexcitedemoticonofgoodness:

[Glass Mouse]

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By the way, why are we talking in spoilers?

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Because this is an oft-repeated discussion here, and I betcha that most people are sick of the subject by now - it's the next best thing to letting it drop

[Protocol]

Where does this come from? I've never stated I have a problem with it, I was talking in general.
If I have to state it explicitly, no I don't have any problem expressing my feelings to a girl, in any situation. I'm very comfortable around girls, if you want to read about my problems with relationships go back a few pages, right now I'm talking about general issues, not my personal experience.

I'm actually amazed to see how agressive and outright offensive people can get when you touch a delicate subject.
You don't know me at all and yet you personally attack me just to try and discredit my opinion. Do you feel better now, or do you want to try again?

It's not a personal attack, it's an observation. You made a sweeping generalisation that operates on flawed logic. I pointed out the flawed logic. If, as you say, you don't believe the generalisation you made, then why don't we drop it. There's not much point in analysing a position no-one is actually holding.

I assumed you had problems with emotional intimacy because I completely misread who was saying what and made erroneous assumptions. If it helps, I don't feel better about that.

[Alad]

Awesome.
So one instance out of...?

One. I'm not a particularly confident person, and I dont really feel attracted to people very often. Combine the two factors. and yeah.

[Coidzor]

Let's be honest, how many men here experienced a girl that after saying "I want to be just friends" was able to actually become a friend instead of running away?

Sort of fighting an uphill battle if there wasn't a friendship to begin with. Only had one experience where I was attracted to a woman, went for a relationship, and ended up with a friendship instead, and there the attraction was mutual.

HS girls were a nightmare for maintaining contact after getting rejected, but, then, High School. College was a bit too similar to HS in that regard for my taste as well, though in both cases it's arguable whether there were a friendship to begin with rather than the illusion of friendship, sometimes on both sides.

I must admit I'm curious as to what this mysterious mature adult human woman is like, because so far she hasn't really surfaced except in distance glimpses and hushed whispers.

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Spoiler: rambling semi-coherence ensues

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Honestly, it's kind of sucked between all of the people who say that I'm a horrible person for not having been able to completely unpack and kill any feelings for her other than friendship. But of course, if I just break off all contact with her I'm a monster as well. Frankly it's a rather annoying no-win situation to be in, since you're a monster if you make a move on a woman right after she's out of an abusive relationship, you're a monster if you make a move on a woman while she's in a relationship, you're a pathetic if you can't get rid of all of your feelings like it's as simple as moving something to the recycle bin and either completely faking what friendship exists or a **** for severing contact to get some distance in order to maybe be able to come back later without any feelings...

And of course, then the narrative changes where it's my fault she got into a relationship with the girl who abused her because I didn't just try harder to get with her after she moved and instead respected her expressed wishes to not enter into a LDR right after I find out that I never had a chance because she had her eye on a new girlfriend about as soon as she finally broke up with her abusive ex for the final time. Or at least there was some significant miscommunication going on about her desires considering she'd been carrying on in such a way that I had to ask for confirmation as to whether she was single still or dating the girl she ended up going out with and that's how that conversation got started in the first place.

Who'd have thought that being told that a woman hates LDRs and refuses to enter into one wasn't an ironclad no on the subject when one had just been discussing their mutual attraction for one another.

Certainly didn't help that I was pissed at myself for waiting too long and pissed at myself for getting pissed at myself because I hadn't really seen any good alternative to feeling her out and talking more before asking her to commit to something as risky and time-consuming as waiting for me to get together to move back to be with her.

**** unhealthy narratives. I just want to get done with this.

Unfortunately, right now, the only way out I see is to just spew as much homophobic vitriol at her as I can possibly think of in order to make her not want to try to contact me because I know I wouldn't be able to resist. And that's not good. That's not right.

*head desk*

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go be consumed by a variety of negative emotions while I try to suss things out.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

About a month ago my ex broke up with me under false pretenses.

Today I discovered that false pretense's name.

At the end of this month she, and perhaps he, will be at an event where I, and all my big, martial friends will be putting on combat demonstrations.

If he is there, I'm not entirely certain I would be out of line to name her base and faithless, and offer weapons to any of her new friends who would care to name me liar. Another ex of hers, and my fellow martial instructor, have both offered to be my second should a formal 'duel' (fully nonlethal, singlesticks or trainers) be the order of business for the day.

[dehro]

(fully nonlethal, singlesticks or trainers)

May I suggest the weapon of choice to be foam hammers? That way you can pummel him on the nose without damaging anything but his pride

[Maeglin_Dubh]

May I suggest the weapon of choice to be foam hammers? That way you can pummel him on the nose without damaging anything but his pride

When fighting with trainers or singlesticks, three-weapon fencing masks are worn. I can beat him about the head with total safety.

[Worira]

Or you could not do it at all, because it would be pretty douchey.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Or you could not do it at all, because it would be pretty douchey.

I disagree. At no point will he be in danger or harmed, and none of them have to fight at all. We let all sorts of people play with us.

[SneakTeeth]

About a month ago my ex broke up with me under false pretenses.

Today I discovered that false pretense's name.

At the end of this month she, and perhaps he, will be at an event where I, and all my big, martial friends will be putting on combat demonstrations.

If he is there, I'm not entirely certain I would be out of line to name her base and faithless, and offer weapons to any of her new friends who would care to name me liar. Another ex of hers, and my fellow martial instructor, have both offered to be my second should a formal 'duel' (fully nonlethal, singlesticks or trainers) be the order of business for the day.

...

I disagree. At no point will he be in danger or harmed, and none of them have to fight at all. We let all sorts of people play with us.

It sounds to me like it might be a bad thing to do, not because he won't get hurt, just partly because I don't know the story with the girl and more importantly there's often a social group to consider with these situations. As tempting as it is with certain exes, it's usually viewed as poor behavior to fight with them and it can lead to bigger fall out in social circles.

For the call out itself I'd have to say we don't know the full story and know if it'd be rude to call her out or if it'd be more suitable to call out the ex as he is the one who lied to you.

Besides if he's told her you're mean or made any other story to her it might give her reason to believe it. I hope your ex isn't that type of person, though.

(Also, just so my tone's clear, I'm not telling you you have to provide reasons or the story, just explaining why it might be a bad idea. You obviously know what's going on and will make a better informed decision than any of us.)

[Maeglin_Dubh]

It sounds to me like it might be a bad thing to do, not because he won't get hurt, just partly because I don't know the story with the girl and more importantly there's often a social group to consider with these situations. As tempting as it is with certain exes, it's usually viewed as poor behavior to fight with them and it can lead to bigger fall out in social circles.

For the call out itself I'd have to say we don't know the full story and know if it'd be rude to call her out or if it'd be more suitable to call out the ex as he is the one who lied to you.

Besides if he's told her you're mean or made any other story to her it might give her reason to believe it. I hope your ex isn't that type of person, though.

(Also, just so my tone's clear, I'm not telling you you have to provide reasons or the story, just explaining why it might be a bad idea. You obviously know what's going on and will make a better informed decision than any of us.)

Her social circles are, at this point, entirely divorced from mine. I'm the fifth partner in a row she's done this to, and the new boy doesn't know me at all and has never spoken to me. If I were to be nice to her in all of this, I could simply call him craven and invite him to prove me wrong. If he has tried telling her I'm mean, and she believed him before, I don't feel bad at all about reinforcing that fiction. Her opinion of me is immaterial.

As for my social circle, I actually had to talk them down from doing something on their own and letting me handle it with a bit more... discretion.

I'm not going to be mean about it. The manner in which I'm presenting it is appropriate in context, and there is a procedure for how a duel is carried out that leaves the other parties room to back out, having lost nothing more than face. Since my social circle means nothing to them, losing face doesn't actually matter. I doubt Larpers would lose much face with other Larpers for refusing a duel with one of us.

[Serpentine]

About a month ago my ex broke up with me under false pretenses.

Today I discovered that false pretense's name.

At the end of this month she, and perhaps he, will be at an event where I, and all my big, martial friends will be putting on combat demonstrations.

If he is there, I'm not entirely certain I would be out of line to name her base and faithless, and offer weapons to any of her new friends who would care to name me liar. Another ex of hers, and my fellow martial instructor, have both offered to be my second should a formal 'duel' (fully nonlethal, singlesticks or trainers) be the order of business for the day.

I want to disapprove, but dammit that's awesome.
I think I knew someone quite similar to her... If you know the new boy is an innocent party I would urge you to treat him as such. For the rest... As long as no one is hurt, and ideally you wouldn't get up on stage and shout "hey everybody, that girl there is a cheating whore!", but you'll get some closure and satisfaction... I'm not going to say it's a good or right thing to do, nor that it won't have consequences, but I won't try and persuade you to not do it, either.
In large part because I wanna hear the story afterwards

[SneakTeeth]

snip

That sounds like it's not really a bad idea then, I don't know for sure if it's a good one, but in your shoes I think I'd do the same thing given the context.

[Coidzor]

About a month ago my ex broke up with me under false pretenses.

Today I discovered that false pretense's name.

At the end of this month she, and perhaps he, will be at an event where I, and all my big, martial friends will be putting on combat demonstrations.

If he is there, I'm not entirely certain I would be out of line to name her base and faithless, and offer weapons to any of her new friends who would care to name me liar. Another ex of hers, and my fellow martial instructor, have both offered to be my second should a formal 'duel' (fully nonlethal, singlesticks or trainers) be the order of business for the day.

Sounds a little bit tasteless, but if it won't make you look like That Guy to the extended group of people... *shrug*

Depends on if you trust that he'll not try anything pigheadedly stupid, I suppose.

If you know the new boy is an innocent party I would urge you to treat him as such.

Seems a bit at odds with beating the crap out of someone, even if the tools involved don't generally leave *lasting* damage beyond bruises and welts. I'll admit I could be gravely mistaken as to what would such an encounter would necessarily entail.

In large part because I wanna hear the story afterwards

Indeed.

[dehro]

When fighting with trainers or singlesticks, three-weapon fencing masks are worn. I can beat him about the head with total safety.

yah.. but you're discounting the ridicule factor.
beating him up isn't really the mature way to handle a breakup, especially if she's the guilty party and the same could have happened with another guy involved.
beating him up with foamy malice is hilarious enough to be acceptable in a world that frowns upon petty squabbles over ex girlfriends. The purpose should be to poke a little fun at him and obtain a measure of satisfaction from her.. not to exact vengeance through violence.
if you stage it correctly it will look all kinds of awesome, and if he falls for the provocation, he deserves to be ridiculed for stepping into an argument that he should stay out of. Setting out to do violence however... a completely different matter, no matter how safely conducted, last but not least because you sound like you'd know what you'd be doing, whilst he may well be woefully unprepared for the challenge, which would make you look like a vindictive bully.

[Maelstrom]

... I'm the fifth partner in a row she's done this to, and the new boy doesn't know me at all...

So, you did this to "boy number 4" then I take it...how are you any better than "boy number 6"?

[Maeglin_Dubh]

So, you did this to "boy number 4" then I take it...how are you any better than "boy number 6"?

I'm good friends with three of my predecessors, including #4, and in the transition from him to me, she wasn't honest with either of us, and only in the aftermath of the most recent incident did #4 and I get to compare notes and realize how extensive the pattern is.

I'm not doing this to beat the kid up. I'm not going to do that. He's a big guy, at least my size if not bigger, and he's no stranger to stickplay. I just want to use the thematic resources at my disposal to see that she doesn't keep sneaking from one partner to the next. It -really- wouldn't be fair or appropriate to get her in the list against me, because she's much smaller and not very good at this. And again, as I said, the protocol is full of ways to back out, and nobody -has- to challenge me. Think of it more as a particularly period public-service announcement combined with an excuse to get more people to play singlestick with us (we're always looking for converts.)

As for foam vs. singlesticks - it's an option, I won't discount that. Foam weapons we have. If his second requests boffers as the weapons of choice, I don't think he'll be refused.

[Zorg]

If shaming her through verbal humiliation doesn't work you can see if someone's willing to sew a big scarlet letter A on all her clothes...

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Spoke to the girl in question this morning, and she's actually ok with the duel going on. She thought that I should challenge her, but realized it wouldn't be fair at all, and I pointed out that even if I did challenge her, protocol would dictate that he take her place.

Like I said, I'm not going into this to do a hatchet job on the kid, and it's contextually appropriate both for the hobby and the event in question. If we get to the square and he doesn't feel up for it, he's allowed to back out. His friends won't care, and he's got no reason to care what my more martial friends would think of it.

[Sholos]

I'm still confused as to why you're challenging him and not the girl who cheated on you. Why aren't you more angry at her? Do you know for sure that this guy knew what was going on and willfully let her cheat on you?

[Coidzor]

I'm still confused as to why you're challenging him and not the girl who cheated on you. Why aren't you more angry at her?

Do you know for sure that this guy knew what was going on and willfully let her cheat on you?

Well, there's the bit where a man beating up a woman or even being willing to fight one is viewed as a very bad and wrong thing. Also, as was pointed out, the nature of the venue is such that he'd have to fight someone in her place anyway.

I was also wondering about whether this guy was hapless and needed to know, whether he'd believe it or not, that she was just going to leave him for another guy without bothering to dump him before she started digging her hooks into his replacement or if he was just a ****. Though it doesn't really seem like he's that much of a known quantity so that question would have to be asked of the man himself rather than Maeglin_Dubh?

[Alad]

If shaming her through verbal humiliation doesn't work you can see if someone's willing to sew a big scarlet letter A on all her clothes...

I get the feeling your being snarky here. But I would argue there is a big difference between being promiscuous and cheating on someone in what was believed to be a monogamous relationship by the other party. The first as far as I'm concerned is fine, whatever works for them. The latter however I consider pretty low... the fact it seems to have happened multiple times just...
If I've misinterpreted you do feel free to correct me. But it feels like you are being snarky towards him for being upset about this and I dont get why.
(No offence intented! I'm just curious )

[Moriwen]

I'm still confused as to why you're challenging him and not the girl who cheated on you. Why aren't you more angry at her? Do you know for sure that this guy knew what was going on and willfully let her cheat on you?

I'm with this. I can see how the whole duel thing could be pulled off in good fun/the spirit of the event, but frankly, insisting on challenging the man (whose fault it wasn't) tips it over the edge to Not Cool, at least for me.

I've actually done the challenge-someone-over-an-offense in much the same spirit (though the weapons were slightly different), and I would have been deeply offended if someone had insisted on taking my place on the basis of gender. I fight my own fights, thankyouverymuch.

Leave the poor guy out of it. Not his fault, and I assume you don't have as good a way of gauging if he'd actually be cool with being put on the spot like that. I'll take your word for it that your ex will take it in the spirit of the thing; so go with her, or don't do it at all.

[GrayGriffin]

So...the guy I like posted something on his Facebook about men having no idea what women look for in men. And now part of me just really wants to confess to him now, but another part says it would be kind of creepy especially since that post is further down in the timeline. Also, I think confessions through social media are kind of weird anyways. But I don't know if he's coming back to Taiwan this winter break and now I'm just worried about missing my chance if I wait too long.

So, what should I do about this?

[Crow]

So...the guy I like posted something on his Facebook about men having no idea what women look for in men. And now part of me just really wants to confess to him now, but another part says it would be kind of creepy especially since that post is further down in the timeline. Also, I think confessions through social media are kind of weird anyways. But I don't know if he's coming back to Taiwan this winter break and now I'm just worried about missing my chance if I wait too long.

So, what should I do about this?

I don't often give relationship advice, but when I do, I tell people to sieze the day.

One day when you look back, you will more regret the things you didn't do, rather than the things you did. Hope that helps.

[Arcanist]

Me and my lady just broke up. It's bothersome, we tried to work it out for a while, but it didn't really work out because of personal reasons on her behalf. I must admit that at first, I figured this was just the worst possible thing. It's not though. SURE! I'm kind of disappointed, but at least she stills wants to be friends and watch The Day of The Doctor with me, so it's not all that bad I suppose...

I'm kind of torn. Should I try and find a new Girlfriend or try the single life for a little while? I'm kind of tempted to just be by myself for a while. It's weird, because normally I associate breaking up with someone with a sense of pain, but this time? Not so much.

[Serpentine]

Only you can know that, really. My suggestion would be to enjoy the single life for a while, but also be open to potential opportunities.