My Little Pony LXXVI: 'P' is for 'Ponythread'!

[DigoDragon]

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To be fair I'll give that Fluttershy hasn't technically sung in a performance before ponies before.

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Well, I suppose it would make more sense then to have made it a specific fear of singing in front of a large crowd than general stage fright?

[Trixie]

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I enjoyed it. I like how Fluttershy was the one to insist the Ponytones perform and that she didn't get over her stage fright in a single episode (so the writers sort of got away with a recycled premise). It panders to the fanbase, but I thought it was fun.

"Pinkie Pie did not have her filter on today" - Oh Pinkie, never forget your filter ever again.

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Eh, it was worth a few chuckles, but as I noted, it felt like fanfiction. Not because it is pandering (pandering done well is really nice) but because it seemed like cheap pandering to worst 4chan memes, is all.

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I disagree. Pinkie certainly didn't help matters but she wasn't the cause of them. I think Fluttershy would have still refused polietly

Ah, but it wasn't a prank. Pinkie Pie was trying (and failing) to reassure Fluttershy.

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How playing every single fear, even ones that never materialized, is assuring someone ?

Even mane 6 agree with me, Twilight even used telekinesis to shut PP up and dragged her away, for Celestia's sake. Not even RD, usually by far most oblivious of ponies, failed to express her disapproval.

And yes, she was the cause. She caused FS first to shut close, then to run in tears. The praise was working until PP butted in.

You mean where she was so shy she couldn't even introduce herself?

I meant asocial. Note 5 seconds after she breaks the ice with Spike she spends whole long way (enough to visibly annoy Twilight) loudly talking with him. In fact, Twilight need to force her out of library. Where was that shyness then? Next episode, she goes to dangerous forest for Twilight. No shyness. Next one openly competes for ticket. No shyness. Had no problem talking to Gilda, ran only when Gilda went out of her way to scare her with predator display. Performed for huge masses twice. Etc, etc. There is literally nothing in S1 that is in current Flandershy.

Where she was too afraid to say no to facing a dragon, something she was terrified of?

Which was normal reaction, and yet, she stared dragon down. Normally, that would be character growth that would help her overcome lesser fears, no?

Where her cheering was so quiet it was actually below her normal tone of voice?

That was a joke. For comparison, loudness of her voice in manticore scene, episode 2.

Where she couldn't say no to Rarity and ended up in a career she utterly hated?

So you say she was afraid to perform doing something she loved, but had no problems with much larger crowds for something she hated?

However stage fright doesn't always work like that. For example I've been required to give presentations on various subjects, and I'll admit that I've got some stage fright in the matter but I work through it to try and give the best presentation possible. Now I'm also a decent singer. You cannot bribe/threaten/drug (alcohol for the curious) me into singing on a stage. The idea is mortifying, even though I'd have no problem giving the same people a speech on the effects of arthritis.

I have problems giving speeches, too, but not when the topic is something I love and can do well. Also, if I was doing it so often, I'd lose the fear too.

[Soras Teva Gee]

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Well, I suppose it would make more sense then to have made it a specific fear of singing in front of a large crowd than general stage fright?

Well I think they did make that point... but its a sort of technical-logic-puzzle-gotcha point to hide behind not a well developed theme like it probably should be.

Given the nuance of that could also be a little tough. Or might not survive the drafts.

I get a psychic impression the staff really liked making this one. Like I can seem them laughing their plots off while thinking about to push the episode more.

[DigoDragon]

Well I think they did make that point... but its a sort of technical-logic-puzzle-gotcha point to hide behind not a well developed theme like it probably should be.

Likely the case at any rate.

Well then, cheers for adventure in the next episode... which is...
*Googles*

Ah!

[erikun]

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.... where is the logic towards you cynical hatred?

More or less everything you say about any given episode tells me that you hate the show, so why call yourself Trixie, and why watch it in the first place?

Being critical, even overly critical, is not the same as disliking something. I'm not sure what Trixie thinks of the show these days, but if she didn't like it and didn't care anymore, I doubt she'd still be around for this long.

And let's be fair, she does have some good points.

And on the other hoof...

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*huge facepalm*

She was directing them. Which is far harder role than just performing yourself, as you are responsible for mistakes of everyone, not just yourself. There is reason why director is best paid and most thankless role in orchestra.

Do you seriously compare this to absurd fear of even touching the scene?

Also, you completely disappeared Green Isn't Your Color. Or A Canterlot Wedding. Or The Crystal Empire. Or this, for that matter. So, yeah, never performed, no, only in every single season or movie

And yeah, PP wasn't doing this on purpose, it's not like she was told eight times she is being plot-hole, by others. The same pony who was always mindful of Fluttershy's feelings even when others ignored them. Really?

BTW, for one, I was fan from the beginning, so I can tell you it didn't looked how you picture it, two, absolute apologism and blindness to problems is the real problem that makes things stagnate and die, growing worse and worse as no one points the emperor is naked

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Directing an orchestra does have the big benefit of not facing the crowd. It also means that, ironically enough, the least amount of attention is focused on her. There is a bit of a difference between reading some lines off-screen and reading the same lines in front of everyone staring at you.

Some of your examples could use some work. Stage fright from singing in front of people is nowhere close to being a bridesmaid at a wedding. I've been the best man at two weddings, and while it was nervous handing over the ring, there's a lot more emotion running around the room than just stage fright. I don't recall Fluttershy's stage performance in The Crystal Empire beyond Rainbow Dash dragging her around sticking her into things. And Equestria Girls, even when considered canon, does not count - it's an entirely different character, and everyone in the movie acted a bit differently from their FiM counterparts.

Hearth's Warming Eve is a bit more telling against Fluttershy's supposed shyness. I suppose Green Isn't Your Color could be as well, although that was more standing in front of a camera with three ponies or so in the room - and she was supposed to act shy then!

And yes, Pinkie Pie was in fine annoying form this episode. I guess I can ignore it, as she seems to act like that half the time anyways. Perhaps I'm desensitized to it? I'm not much buying the "forgot to turn on her filter" excuse after getting yelled at repeatedly about it - it was a classing "making someone panic because it's humorous" Pinkie.

I'm not sure that anything would've changed in the plot of Fluttershy hadn't been panicked during those scenes, either, because it was mostly her stage fright (and her enjoyment of singing) affecting her - not her recalling Pinkie's comments. I'm rather thankful for that, actually, as it means I can just forget Pinkie in this episode and it still works out just fine.

[Tiki Snakes]

Being critical, even overly critical, is not the same as disliking something. I'm not sure what Trixie thinks of the show these days, but if she didn't like it and didn't care anymore, I doubt she'd still be around for this long.

And let's be fair, she does have some good points.

And on the other hoof...

I've not noticed her praise an episode except to draw a contrast with an episode she is currently criticising that I can remember. It's almost like there's some kind of Love-Hate thing going on.

But then, unless I miss my guess, isn't Trixie a fan of the franchise rather than specifically the show? As in previous generations?

[Forum Explorer]

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How playing every single fear, even ones that never materialized, is assuring someone ?

Even mane 6 agree with me, Twilight even used telekinesis to shut PP up and dragged her away, for Celestia's sake. Not even RD, usually by far most oblivious of ponies, failed to express her disapproval.

And yes, she was the cause. She caused FS first to shut close, then to run in tears. The praise was working until PP butted in.

I meant asocial. Note 5 seconds after she breaks the ice with Spike she spends whole long way (enough to visibly annoy Twilight) loudly talking with him. In fact, Twilight need to force her out of library. Where was that shyness then? Next episode, she goes to dangerous forest for Twilight. No shyness. Next one openly competes for ticket. No shyness. Had no problem talking to Gilda, ran only when Gilda went out of her way to scare her with predator display. Performed for huge masses twice. Etc, etc. There is literally nothing in S1 that is in current Flandershy.


Which was normal reaction, and yet, she stared dragon down. Normally, that would be character growth that would help her overcome lesser fears, no?



That was a joke. For comparison, loudness of her voice in manticore scene, episode 2.



So you say she was afraid to perform doing something she loved, but had no problems with much larger crowds for something she hated?



I have problems giving speeches, too, but not when the topic is something I love and can do well. Also, if I was doing it so often, I'd lose the fear too.

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Pinkie Pie was being a jerk and generally not helping yeah. This isn't the first time that's happened. But while she made things worse she didn't make a difference. Without her there it likely would have simply played out as it did when they caught up to her.

She still had that early failure and needed that push in order to open up. In Rarity's dress episode she was shy about expressing her opinion and had to be forced into it. Her shyness does key down a bunch in the later episodes of S1 because she's mostly dealing with ponies she is comfortable with. (She was also shy about standing up to Photo Finish to meet Rarity. Similarly she ran and hid from her fans).


You'd think that but fear doesn't always work that way. And she didn't get over her fear of dragons. She's still terrified she just managed to work through her fear in order to save her friends.


It was a joke, but it's a joke that we've seen multiple times (in S1 no less). Like her screaming in Green Isn't Your Color.


Yup. Again fears aren't equal and beating one fear doesn't always help with another. She didn't care about the modeling, her discomfort was entirely due to the crowd. But she cares about her singing. So the fear of choking is that much greater.


That's not quite my point. What I mean is just because I've beaten my stage fright for one thing like speeches (and yeah it does get easier the more you do it), doesn't mean my stage fright for singing has in anyway been reduced.

Also weirdly I've done better in my presentations when the subject matter has been something I've hated. I was so upset and annoyed at the paper itself that I ignored the audience and just spoke. I thinks it's the feeling of something mattering. I didn't care about the paper so the thought of failure barely bothered me. But for the paper I cared about and worked on hard for a good presentation? That got to me because it mattered a lot to me what their opinions would be.

[Aotrs Commander]

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Let me just say this: I presented lectures on military history to my class at age 13. I front our wargames shows, where we go specifically to talk to people. I have been doing panto for twenty-one years and you STILL will not get me singing solo or being the lead singer in anything.

There's a big difference between even singing on stage with the rest of the cast and singing alone or as the lead singer...

[Jahkaivah]

I loved everything in this episode.

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Including a**hole Pinkie.

[Trixie]

So, seeing new thread is in about 10 posts...

Any more title proposals or votes?

[Forum Explorer]

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Let me just say this: I presented lectures on military history to my class at age 13. I front our wargames shows, where we go specifically to talk to people. I have been doing panto for twenty-one years and you STILL will not get me singing solo or being the lead singer in anything.

There's a big difference between even singing on stage with the rest of the cast and singing alone or as the lead singer...

and thus are hopes for a villain song from Bleakbane have been dashed forever.

[Rater202]

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Again, where are the a**hole Pinkie comments coming from? I can by Pinkie forgetting to Censor herself, especially because each instance happens on a different day( I counted at least five days in this episode)

If anything, it's just further fuel for my theory that she's autistic.

[DigoDragon]

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Let me just say this: I presented lectures on military history to my class at age 13. I front our wargames shows, where we go specifically to talk to people. I have been doing panto for twenty-one years and you STILL will not get me singing solo or being the lead singer in anything.

There's a big difference between even singing on stage with the rest of the cast and singing alone or as the lead singer...

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Yeah, which seems to jive in part with what Soras and I concluded.

Any more title proposals or votes?

This an academy record for fewest running titles (i.e. one)?

and thus are hopes for a villain song from Bleakbane have been dashed forever.

I never saw him as the type for it. I on the other hoof...

[Kurgan]

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Fluttershy running from fear of performing.

I honestly kind of liked this episode, but everything about it seemed forced.

It seems that when it comes time to do a Fluttershy episode, they roll a d6, and on a 1-5 they make an episode about social anxiety or being shy. Yes, I understand she is shy and has some anxiety issues, but we have had so many episodes on this already - Dragonshy, Green Isn't Your Color [anxiety of displeasing Rarity], Stare Master, Iron Will episode, Hurricane Fluttershy, and now this one.

In a rare [from me] bit of praise for Season 3, I don't think there was an episode that ran completely on this concept at least.

Also, Pinkie drove the plot of the episode, remember, she won the turkey gobbling contest against Big Mac, straining his voice.

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This Show is Too Manestream Now

[Rater202]

and thus are hopes for a villain song from Bleakbane have been dashed forever.

If you'd like, I could hide a microphone in his shower

This an academy record for fewest running titles (i.e. one)?

BTW, I vote for Digo's.

[Trixie]

The Lone Rager

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Did I mention I love this picture yet? No? Time to mention then :P

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Only if the Mane 6 were straight.

Pinkie didn't drive the plot though. The same thing would've happened if she had been more low key. Or not in the episode at all.

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Upon thinking, she also caused Big Mac to lose voice, causing the whole problem. Sigh. I don't know, it would still be better if Rarity or the other mare lost it. The notions of people loving Big Mac for fake voice, though obviously meant to be a joke, are kind of uncomfortable

[Aotrs Commander]

and thus are hopes for a villain song from Bleakbane have been dashed forever.

Sadly, yes.

I am not, for that matter, a singer anyway. Don't get me wrong, I can sing, but only adequately and provided it's in the correct sort of pitch (I mean, we're not talking William Shatner levels here...)

If it's joining the chorus of the old Aotrs war songs or a rousing chorus of the family favourite He Jumped Without A Parachute (or possibly even the Lay of Gil-Galad) I'm your Lich... But an actual villain song would require a level of musical adroitness I simply lack, I'm afraid.

If you'd like, I could hide a microphone in his shower

That would be unlikely to help much, since I emphatically do NOT shower. (If on the rare occasion I actually require any sort of cleaning, I will use a bath.) I'm not fond of rain at the best of times, so no fracking way I'm going to be rained on inside...

[DigoDragon]

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Also, Pinkie drove the plot of the episode, remember, she won the turkey gobbling contest against Big Mac, straining his voice.

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That musta been one hardcore competition. ...but I suppose Pinkie was at least a plot-point to the episode story.

If you'd like, I could hide a microphone in his shower

Liches shower? O_o`
Do they need to exfoliate their bones?

*Boggled*

[Aotrs Commander]

Liches shower? O_o`
Do they need to exfoliate their bones?

*Boggled*

This one doesn't.



Hopereaver might, I suppose, but I really kind of don't care.

Actually, I-

Really don't want any sort of image in my head, thank you, Hopereaver.

[zimmerwald1915]

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I don't think lumping in stage fright with fear does justice to what stage fright is and how it specifically impacts performance. Because stage fright isn't really about fear. For all that Pinkie deservedly gets flack for her performance this episode, she has a very good working definition of stage fright. It is the feeling of having people watching and judging you.

In some people, this feeling can produce fear, but even if it doesn't, feeling that someone is watching you is detrimental to any performance. It is distracting. Every school of acting I know of gives its students some way of avoiding that distraction. Chekhov focuses your attention on what your body is doing. Strasberg takes you out of the moment entirely. Adler has you imagine the fourth wall. Meisner focuses your attention on listening to your scene partner. Hagen directs your attention to your destination - in this case, in space.

I can buy that in Hearth's Warming Eve Fluttershy was able to use Meisner-like or even Strasberg-like techniques (not to say that she's actually a trained actor, but some of these things are intuitive, and Fluttershy's no dim bulb) to aid her performance in a way she wasn't able to do in this episode. A student of Strasberg could take nervous anxiety and build the emotional core of a character like Private Pansy out of it. The fact that Fluttershy probably felt nervous and anxious might even have helped her performance, since she wouldn't have had to go back into her memory to find the physical sensations. A student of Meisner might devote all her attention to Rainbow Dash and just forget about everything else.

In this episode, however, neither technique would seem very efficacious to me. Fluttershy isn't trying to build a nervous and anxious character, so Strasberg doesn't help her. Her feelings just get in the way, particularly as they come on suddenly and don't jive at all with how she had been singing and dancing uninhibitedly at that point. Meisner doesn't help because she's alone backstage and her partners are all covered by the curtain. There's no one for her to relate to. Adler doesn't help because Fluttershy literally knocked over the fourth wall, so imagining it doesn't exactly ring true. Plus, Fluttershy's imagination has a go-to point in these kinds of situations. We saw it here and we saw it in Hurricane Fluttershy: an overwhelming cascade of bulging, judgmental eyes. Chekhov doesn't help because Fluttershy's most potent physical sensation besides the tension in her chest and joints (the physical signs of stage fright) would be her bruised rear. Only Hagen could help her in this situation, but lacking any pressing reason to wrench it somewhere else, Fluttershy's destination at that moment is out the door...so out she goes.

Also, and I alluded to this indirectly already, but it bears repeating, Fluttershy in this episode was put on the spot in a way she wasn't in Hearth's Warming Eve. That pageant was rehearsed with all the actors' being in view in mind. They had to have blocked out their movements - to avoid bumping into flying (i.e., raised and lowered on ropes or wires) set pieces if nothing else. Fluttershy had time to process the idea of performing in front of a crowd, even if she didn't exactly like the idea. The same goes, more or less, for Hurricane Fluttershy. In that episode, Fluttershy spent a long time training and building her confidence before the big day, and even then was stymied not so much by stage fright than by her tendency to put herself down (I can relate). In Filli Vanilli, Fluttershy was explicitly shielded from the crowd, had rehearsed with the Ponytones on that basis, and her behavior reflected her reliance on that shield.

Huh. Didn't even notice the page number.

[TheAmishPirate]

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I knew this was a Fluttershy episode going in. I knew what to expect. Was my pancreas adequately prepared?

Pffffftbahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Ahh...but seriously, this episode was amazing. Yes, it was another "Fluttershy gets over her fears" episode, but I say it's different enough to warrant a new episode.

In the previous Fluttershy episodes, they dealt with duties Fluttershy had to perform for one reason or another. Either Ponyville is in danger, this water tornado won't reach Cloudsdale, etc. This was the first time we've seen her fears hold her back from something she legitimately enjoys. More than that, this is the first time we've seen her take incremental steps to overcoming her fears rather than bucking up and jumping in whole hog.

To those saying that she shouldn't have to be afraid because she's performed on stage before, let me point this out; singing a solo is dramatically different then walking around in a fashion show or performing a historical pageant with your friends. You are putting yourself out there - as an artist and as a person - and putting your heart and soul into your music. You expose a great deal of vulnerability on the stage by putting your work out for other people to enjoy or boo. Walking on a runway, while artistic to those who enjoy it, was not a performance piece for Fluttershy, and neither was the pageant.

Right, now what else did I love? AJ continues to swing for the fences with her conversation with Big Mac. The setup of the dilemma was amazing. Not an Idiot Ball in sight, everypony talked through their problems like responsible adults/ponies, and nopony failed to remember resources at their disposal. Beautifully executed. The firefly stage lights were a nifty bit of design. The whole acapella/vocal pony group was awesome, and not just because I have a soft spot for acapella. Seeing little Ponyville hobby groups really adds a nice sense of depth to the world. And Big Mac singing? Yes, please.

Oh. And Fluttershy getting into her performances was the most adorable thing ever.

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"Pinkie Pie did not have her filter on today" - Oh Pinkie, never forget your filter ever again.

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Pretty much this.

Since when has every character been the shining model of empathy and knowing what to say? When have any of us been the shining model of knowing what to say? Pinkie basically had a string of inserting her hoof directly in her mouth in an attempt to help. Which, given her high energy, is something I imagine happens quite a bit. It's a tidbit of her character that I accept, as painful as it is to watch sometimes.

[DigoDragon]

I'm not fond of rain at the best of times, so no fracking way I'm going to be rained on inside...

I love the rain!

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Really don't want any sort of image in my head, thank you, Hopereaver.

I like hopereaver.

[Rater202]

I like hopereaver.

Is Hopereaver best lich?

[Forum Explorer]

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Also, Pinkie drove the plot of the episode, remember, she won the turkey gobbling contest against Big Mac, straining his voice.

Edit: for titles, maybe

This Show is Too Manestream Now

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Touche

[Soras Teva Gee]

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This Show is Too Manestream Now

Yessssshhhhhh....

[DigoDragon]

Is Hopereaver best lich?

I don't know. When was his last performance review?

[Tiki Snakes]

Adding belated official vote for;


My Little Pony LXXVII: Playground's Permanent Party Ponythread!
(Digo's suggestion)

Also Hopereaver isn't a he.

[Trixie]

Adding belated official vote for

Guess what!

[DigoDragon]

To the Fruitbat Cave!

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