OOTS #1188 - The Discussion Thread

[Theaitetos]

is pretty much the equivalent of "Rocks fall, everybody dies"

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It's 2019!

Love the critters, so cool!

[Tvtyrant]

Wholesome! Some set up for further down the line and a tiny dose of character development.

[LordSith]

Sphinx pot appeared in which page? I do not remember it.

[Peelee]

it’s been pretty clearly getting better, starting to recognize that other people’s lives matter beyond “funny man will stay funny” and “sex with them would be nice”

Again, that's not prioritizing being a better person, that's prioritizing not being an annoying little runt.

[Psychronia]

Take that, Sphinx Pox! Shoulda loved Hel and propagated faster.

This is a nice wholesome break for our team. Truly, everyone has come so far.

[Ornithologist]

It could be summer. Far enough north the sun never sets in summer.

Actually, it is somewhere between the first week of January to early March. There's actually a good chance of there being no Sun at all during the day.

[ti'esar]

The sunset is in the west, they are traveling north. Which is Perpendicular to the sunlight as sunset. I get what he means, its just they set course 2 pages ago and would have fit better there. Though that title was a better use than this one.

eh, minor gripe at best. (edit: my griping, not anyone elses).

The joke, IMO, is that they would be sailing off into the sunset, but going to the north pole gets in the way of narrative conventions.

[Fyraltari]

It could be summer. Far enough north the sun never sets in summer.

But does it go west before the end of the "day"?

[hobo386]

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think the old stuff holds up just as well as the new stuff, and often better.

[NobleCuriosity]

The joke, IMO, is that they would be sailing off into the sunset, but going to the north pole gets in the way of narrative conventions.

Thank you, that’s the best explanation I’ve seen so far, and actually made me smile.

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but I think the old stuff holds up just as well as the new stuff, and often better.

Unpopular with me anyway. The gag-a-day stuff seems vastly shallower than the drama does for me (admittedly, I’ve only actually played 5e.). I usually skip book 1 when doing a reread.

[danielxcutter]

Again, that's not prioritizing being a better person, that's prioritizing not being an annoying little runt.

...Isn't prioritizing not being an annoying little runt still being a better person than before? No, I'm being totally serious.

[Doug Lampert]

Also, the Sphinx Pox couldn't have been resolved more dramatically.

It was perfect. The Sphinx Pox got exactly the drama it deserved given the existence of a high level cleric.

And finally, the Bag of Tricks fulfills its purpose: assisting drunk people.

Hey! It has a purpose! Yeah!

[Particle_Man]

So if they are lining up their abilities and priorities, and sailing north, perpendicular to the sunset they are . . . Polarized.

I think maybe Belkar will end up petrified like that Dwarf from the Order of the Scribble, but I could be wrong.

I vote that V is writing their ex. Maybe seeing Durkon and Hilgya coming to some sort of accommodation (and the kid! V has kids!) sparked some similar idea in V's mind.

Great strip!

[Peelee]

But does it go west before the end of the "day"?

Does it go east-west in Stickworld to begin with?

...Isn't prioritizing not being an annoying little runt still being a better person than before? No, I'm being totally serious.

"Better" in what sense? Because I'm arguing its not better in the "Good-Evil" sense, which is where redemption would come into play. Dream Shojo told Belkar to play the game or they'd boot him from the table. That doesn't equate to "don't be Evil."

[Grey Watcher]

I know I might be overthinking it but did Durkon use the spell on Roy? The middle panel with Roy sounds a bit ominous.

I don’t see cute animals tucking Roy in.

I see a disease vector Durkon may have forgot to cure: hidden animals in a magic bag.

It reads a lot less ominously if you imagine the transition between the last two panels as having a record scratch sound effect.

[NobleCuriosity]

It reads a lot less ominously if you imagine the transition between the last two panels as having a record scratch sound effect.

I also want to say that I really appreciate the scorch marks from Blackwing’s deliberate UMD mishap still being there on V’s desk area. Giant could have just said “oh they replaced the table” and drawn less, instead we got a nice little continuity check.

[mjasghar]

Yeah, it did seem like a waste of a Chekhov's Gun. I can't help but think that as glad as Elan will be that no one is going to die, seeing a potentially dramatic plot device not be used would break his heart.

On the subject of drama, however, its going to be a nerve-wracking week as we wait for the end of the book on Monday. Something tells me that one's going to end on a big wham!

I think it was used as a joke about Hel and an example of her immaturity which the forums conflated

[Schroeswald]

Does it go east-west in Stickworld to begin with?

"Better" in what sense? Because I'm arguing its not better in the "Good-Evil" sense, which is where redemption would come into play. Dream Shojo told Belkar to play the game or they'd boot him from the table. That doesn't equate to "don't be Evil."

Belkar has moved far beyond Dream Shojo’s advice, because he’s not just faking friendliness and helpfulness, he’s starting to show empathy to people, that gnome shopkeeper didn’t get a date because Belkar felt weird about it, Greg was attacked because he stealing Durkon’s body, and the best way to be redeemed is to realize that you hurt others and that it was bad to do that, instead you should help them, and trying to be helpful and kind does equate to not being an annoying little runt.

[Endarire]

Sphinx Pox: Thor could've told him off-panel.

[Anitar]

I think maybe Belkar will end up petrified like that Dwarf from the Order of the Scribble, but I could be wrong.

You can clip that "could" if you like. Kraagor (the dwarf in question) wasn't petrified, he was locked away with the Snarl; and the statue of him is a memorial, not his remains. As far as we know, anyway.

[Theaitetos]

Sphinx pot appeared in which page? I do not remember it.

Sphinx Pox: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1081.html

[Ruck]

Color me skeptical.

I'm aware of the existence of that strip, but I still think it's more important for Vaarsuvius to contact the Order's allies.

"Last breath ever" makes this less likely, but I do like the idea of subverting "redemption=death", particularly for a character like Belkar.

I like the idea of subverting it too, but in the "death but no redemption" sense. Belkar is more three-dimensional, which does not necessarily equate to less evil. Plus, we have a character who says redemption is a rare and special thing, and we have a character who needs redemption and actively acknowledges that they did a terrible thing.

I agree with this, especially because as a trope redemption=death is overused to an excessive degree, while it’s not a completely useless trope and many great redemption stories use it we usually don’t get to see the character doing good later and a sense of symmetry, just one climactic moment where they sacrifice their life, now they’re good, trust us (but Belkar’s definitely getting it, and I’m cool with it in this situation)

I try to stay away from bringing up tropes in criticism because it's an easy road to walk to get you where you're evaluating a work largely by whether it subverted, inverted, or refried tropes. Whatever happens to Belkar will work or not for me based on whether it is plausible based on his character and effective based on the needs of the drama.

[Draconi Redfir]

At last we can put this Sphinx Pox thing to rest :P

[Ruck]

My guess is that, after hearing what Hilgya plans to do when the **** hits the fan, Vaarsuvius remembered V's parental responsibility and is sending to Aarindarius to warn the elven village of the potentially impending end of the world and ask Aarindarius to planeshift Inkyrius and the kids out.

25 words wouldn't be nearly enough to explain things to Inkyrius, but "The world is doomed! Flee, you fools!" should get the point across to another wizard, with plenty space to explain that the world might not end, and V will come to the plane of ranch dressing to pick them up when/if the danger is over.

I don't think Aarindarius will participate in any climactic battle that V is in, too. Mentors ought not to meddle in the protagonist's adventures. But planeshifting all the elves Aarindarius knows personally and cares about to a safe place will keep Aarindarius busy for a while, and at the same time show that V was wise enough to ask for help.

This is a more plausible case to me than that V is going Stevie Wonder sending to Inkyrius.

Again, that's not prioritizing being a better person, that's prioritizing not being an annoying little runt.

I gotta disagree-- if Belkar is starting to recognize that other people's lives matter, that is clearly a step toward being a better person, even if it is one he should have made a long time ago. Isn't one of the fundamental traits of Good "a concern for the dignity of sentient beings"?

[jwhouk]

Sphinx Pox: Thor could've told him off-panel.

And here I thought I was going to be the one saying this. :/

I suspect V is Sending to OChul, but the Sending could also be to that one priestess back at the Godsmoot as well.

Thing is, what could they say in 25 words to relay what's happened?

[Alex Warlorn]

Objection. I still find the "level" vs "level" joke fun.

[Theaitetos]

but the Sending could also be to that one priestess back at the Godsmoot as well.

They can't, because the clerics at the Godsmoot are blocked from communication: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1023.html

[Rogar Demonblud]

And here I thought I was going to be the one saying this. :/

I suspect V is Sending to OChul, but the Sending could also be to that one priestess back at the Godsmoot as well.

Thing is, what could they say in 25 words to relay what's happened?

The magic quarantine of the Godsmoot blocks communication spells. V is not contacting Veldrina.

[RatElemental]

Again, that's not prioritizing being a better person, that's prioritizing not being an annoying little runt.

I'm starting to wonder what Belkar would have to do before you would look at that and say "Yep, that's some redemption progress right there."

Belkar has:

1. Experienced empathy towards other living creatures and altered his behavior accordingly (Gnome Shopkeeper).
2. Expressed remorse for previous actions and made attempts at restitution towards those he hurt (apologizing to Durkon).
3. Is likely engaging in introspection about his other misdeeds ("Hardcore Introspection").
4. Is actively changing his behavior in light of the above (Seeing Elan in this strip).

[Dion]

The magic quarantine of the Godsmoot blocks communication spells. V is not contacting Veldrina.

My guess is V learned something from Durkon, and is trying to be a better parent by writing postcards to their children.