Sermil and the Banter of Randomness: Random Banter #228

[Mystic Muse]

You're focusing on the worst case scenario, and ignoring all the ways it could be helpful as a result.

So, ways in which it could be helpful. Prevents discriminatory policies against trans-people, less awkwardness when a parent has to take their opposite-gender child to the restroom, and some places won't put baby-changing stations in all restrooms, sometimes just the female ones.


As a comparison point, are you opposed to airplanes? Or any sort of heavy-machinery including cars?

[Bartmanhomer]

I did explain. You hand-waved it away as "that's different" without really extrapolating (well, on the second example. The first example you just didn't address at all). Not much more I can add, really; I think I've summed it up as well as I could.

My whole problem with unisex bathrooms is that some people who want to make out with other people in a predatory way in which some people are very vulnerable to be a target as a victim.

[DataNinja]

That's different. But I find it very odd in that man and woman wants to share the bathroom together if they have an opportunity to flirt with each other in a predatory way. That my whole issue with that. I'm sorry but not sorry for expressing my strong opinions on that. If you think that my argument is wrong with that note then please explain to me. Maybe I might change my opinion but I still stand what I said.

Separated bathrooms do not stop determined predators currently. So, the very few fringe cases where someone would do it in a unisex bathroom, compared to separated bathrooms... it's not necessarily a reason to discount an entire idea. Which basically doubles the amount of bathrooms available to everyone, and, as a bonus, makes people who do not conform to the stereotypical cisgender gender binary (appearance-wise or otherwise) more comfortable - everyone's just in one place.

It's similar to the arguments about allowing transgender people in the correct bathrooms. Studies have repeatedly shown that that does not noticeably increase issues of assault or anything else. (And that's even discounting the fact that disallowing transmen into the men's washroom keeps men in with the women.)

And as Peelee said, there's more than just male on female assault and harassment.

[LaZodiac]

My whole problem with unisex bathrooms is that some people who want to make out with other people in a predatory way in which some people are very vulnerable to be a target as a victim.

Guess you better burn your house down, since it has a unisex bathroom in it.

Anyway, I just spent a good amount of time watching Owl House because I heard that there was some cute lesbians in it (and there are) but also it's just really damn good. Highly recommended.

[Bartmanhomer]

You're focusing on the worst case scenario, and ignoring all the ways it could be helpful as a result.

So, ways in which it could be helpful. Prevents discriminatory policies against trans-people, less awkwardness when a parent has to take their opposite-gender child to the restroom, and some places won't put baby-changing stations in all restrooms, sometimes just the female ones.


As a comparison point, are you opposed to airplanes? Or any sort of heavy-machinery including cars?

Separated bathrooms do not stop determined predators currently. So, the very few fringe cases where someone would do it in a unisex bathroom, compared to separated bathrooms... it's not necessarily a reason to discount an entire idea. Which basically doubles the amount of bathrooms available to everyone, and, as a bonus, makes people who do not conform to the stereotypical cisgender gender binary (appearance-wise or otherwise) more comfortable - everyone's just in one place.

It's similar to the arguments about allowing transgender people in the correct bathrooms. Studies have repeatedly shown that that does not noticeably increase issues of assault or anything else. (And that's even discounting the fact that disallowing transmen into the men's washroom keeps men in with the women.)

And as Peelee said, there's more than just male on female assault and harassment.

Ok that a fair and valid argument and point. Maybe I was very closed-minded about unisex bathrooms. I'm sorry everybody.

[DataNinja]

Ok that a fair and value argument and point. Maybe I was very closed-minded about unisex bathrooms. I'm sorry everybody.

It's understandable. We're taught that things are a certain way, and that's the way they should be, and other ways are bad. It's good that you were able to challenge your preconceptions and learn!

[Anonymouswizard]

It's understandable. We're taught that things are a certain way, and that's the way they should be, and other ways are bad. It's good that you were able to challenge your preconceptions and learn!

This very much did n not give me issues coming to terms with my identity.


But yeah, I have recently seen such arguments used to oppress people in the real world. If I'd still been awake I likely wouldn't have been as nice as people have been.

[DataNinja]

This very much did n not give me issues coming to terms with my identity.

But yeah, I have recently seen such arguments used to oppress people in the real world. If I'd still been awake I likely wouldn't have been as nice as people have been.

Yeah, it's frustrating that assumed defaults can tend to lead to people dismissing things because it's not matching the norm. And that it can dissuade people from self-introspection, too. It's nice to see a bit more of a shift in the general populace towards stuff like that, but there's still a long way to go. It's an uphill climb, but progress, at least is being made.

...I know that's not the most comforting speech ever, but I'm bad at comforting. >.>;

[Mystic Muse]

I know Dark souls is hardly the most realistic game out there.

But I feel like even things that are not technically alive should be 'killed' by having the head of a scythe shoved longways through them.

It just seems wildly detrimental to the whole idea of continuing to exist.

[BisectedBrioche]

Well, I had a night of weird dreams, interrupted by a phone call from the GIC's psychotherapist, who told me I was meant to have an appointment. I couldn't find the letter listing my appointments, or an email for setting up a video appointment (it's going to be resent).

So, that's no therapy call for me this month. FML.

[Anonymouswizard]

Yeah, it's frustrating that assumed defaults can tend to lead to people dismissing things because it's not matching the norm. And that it can dissuade people from self-introspection, too. It's nice to see a bit more of a shift in the general populace towards stuff like that, but there's still a long way to go. It's an uphill climb, but progress, at least is being made.

...I know that's not the most comforting speech ever, but I'm bad at comforting. >.>;

Oh, don't worry, I've come to terms with it. I'm just upset that there's so much resistance to helping other people sort it all out.

Blasphemy time' Earthsea is just better than Lord of the Rings.

[DavidSh]

Blasphemy time' Earthsea is just better than Lord of the Rings.

Are you comparing a series of novels and short stories with a single novel in three volumes, or are you comparing TV and movie adaptations of each?

[Fyraltari]

Blasphemy time' Earthsea is just better than Lord of the Rings.

I want to be angry but I haven’t read Earthsea yet, so I can’t.

[asda fasda]

Me too, I've even bought myself a copy to read to my kid, but his to young yet so for know I'm waiting, I hope in half a year I will be able to read him Hobbit : P

[LaZodiac]

Are you comparing a series of novels and short stories with a single novel in three volumes, or are you comparing TV and movie adaptations of each?

Categorizing LOTR as one extremely long book honestly makes the comparison worse in Earthsea's favour. The LOTR books are dense and bloated in ways that any editor would be able to point out as being "eeeh". Consolidating all three books as one large mega-book makes all of the problems LOTR DOES have come off as way, way worse.

[Anonymouswizard]

Categorizing LOTR as one extremely long book honestly makes the comparison worse in Earthsea's favour. The LOTR books are dense and bloated in ways that any editor would be able to point out as being "eeeh". Consolidating all three books as one large mega-book makes all of the problems LOTR DOES have come off as way, way worse.

Yeah, this. Looking just at the literature, Earthsea is faster paced and tighter, and at least to me explore more interesting ideas. While you could argue that Lord of the Rings is the better story, it's presented more poorly and that matters a lot in a book.

Adaptation wise Earthsea has had the short end of the stick, with the terrible TV movie duology, passable Ghibli film, and Ms sauce okay I've not listened to them BBC radio dramas. Lord of the Rings meanwhile has two excellent adaptations and the mediocre Peter Jackson films, plus a fairly poor musical and the lost BBC 6.5 hour radio treatment.

[Wizard_Lizard]

What's the whole point of having unisex bathrooms in the first place anyway? I find it very cringe and strange.

As a nonbinary person uh... I find the idea of Unisex bathrooms.. less cringe and strange.
Although, granted, as someone who lives in a place with quite a few unisex public bathrooms, and doesn't use any public bathrooms at all.. My opinion may be less valid.

[Sermil]

Blasphemy time' Earthsea is just better than Lord of the Rings.

Wow, you really want to change the subject, but OK, I'll bite.

Are you talking about the original Earthsea trilogy (A Wizard of Earthsea, The Tombs of Atuan, The Farthest Shore), or are you including the two novels LeGuin wrote much later (Tehanu and The Other Wind)?

IMHO, the first two were very good. They had a bit the opposite problem of LOTR, in that they were too taciturn, too little description, but I agree they were very good. They had a moral complexity that LOTR lacked. The third was good as well, though I always found it a little too phantasmagorical for me.

I didn't like the last two. I know LeGuin was looking back at her early works, and seeing the problems with them. I can even see the problems with them (the un-examined sexism of "only men can be wizards"). But it felt like she wanted to just burn the whole thing down, turn Ged into a pathetic old fool because she didn't like her earlier worldbuilding. I disliked the last two in direct proportion to how much I liked the first three. She wasn't allowing the readers to keep the things that were good and beautiful about the first three; in her determination to deconstruct her old mistakes, she deconstructed everything else. I dunno, I only read the last two once because I disliked them so, but that was my feeling at the time.

I do like LOTR, despite many flaws there as well. (The complete lack of moral complexity, because Sauron is just evil with no other features and because the orcs are born evil so it's OK to kill them; the lack of female characters; the sometimes overly-long descriptions; the way Gandalf coming back feels like a cheat.) It still makes you feel like there's a world there, a world with size and history (so much history) and depth and texture, and that's something few other authors do as well as Tolkien.

[Bartmanhomer]

As a nonbinary person uh... I find the idea of Unisex bathrooms.. less cringe and strange.
Although, granted, as someone who lives in a place with quite a few unisex public bathrooms, and doesn't use any public bathrooms at all.. My opinion may be less valid.

I didn't know that you were non-binary. I always thought that you were a guy. Interesting.

[Anonymouswizard]

I didn't know that you were non-binary. I always thought that you were a guy. Interesting.

Why does this seem to apply as a general rule? If you don't continually radiate girl vibes or have short hair people will assume you're male.

[Mystic Muse]

Why does this seem to apply as a general rule? If you don't continually radiate girl vibes or have short hair people will assume you're male.

That's a societal issue that is waaaaay too fraught with real world stuff to properly discuss here.

Suffice to say, it's a problem and needs fixed.

[Bartmanhomer]

Why does this seem to apply as a general rule? If you don't continually radiate girl vibes or have short hair people will assume you're male.

Not all men have short hair.

[Rater202]

Case in point: I knew a young man through middle and high school whose hair was cut short in the eighth grade... And from the day I met him he never got a haircut.

By the time we graduated the hair on his head was literally down past his thighs.

[Anonymouswizard]

Not all men have short hair.

I'm not saying they do. But it's the thing that gets me called Miss most often, despite only being shoulder length.


I want a sailor fuku. But I need to lose weight before I'd look good in one.

[Bartmanhomer]

I'm not saying they do. But it's the thing that gets me called Miss most often, despite only being shoulder length.


I want a sailor fuku. But I need to lose weight before I'd look good in one.

Have you ever corrected them by saying that you're not a woman?

[SZbNAhL]

*Desperately rummaging through the filing system in my brain looking for a new topic*
Politics, politics, religion, politics, religious politics, ah!

Mayonaise-flavoured ice cream: yay or nay?

[Bartmanhomer]

*Desperately rummaging through the filing system in my brain looking for a new topic*
Politics, politics, religion, politics, religious politics, ah!

Mayonaise-flavoured ice cream: yay or nay?

We already have that conversation for so many threads ago. To answer your question......I don't know.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Why does this seem to apply as a general rule? If you don't continually radiate girl vibes or have short hair people will assume you're male.

I've had other people on the internetland assume I'm a girl too so I dunno.

[Peelee]

I've had other people on the internetland assume I'm a girl too so I dunno.

I've just kind of assumed that you were a magical reptile.

[Wizard_Lizard]

I've just kind of assumed that you were a magical reptile.

Well I mean.. you're not wrong.. I'm just a non-binary magical reptile...