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2020-10-19, 12:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2006
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Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
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2020-10-19, 12:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2020
Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
Is that what is being referred to here in the following quote from the PHB?
Originally Posted by PHB
Again. You have it backwards.
The Dueling fighting style has a conditional that needs to be met before it can be applied.
The conditional refers to "wielded"
That term is no where defined in the PHB.
So what definition for "wield" are you using?Last edited by ThorOdinson; 2020-10-19 at 12:40 AM.
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2020-10-19, 12:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2020
Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
Duplicate post
Last edited by ThorOdinson; 2020-10-19 at 12:33 AM. Reason: Double post
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2020-10-19, 12:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
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- Montevarchi, Italy
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2020-10-19, 12:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2020
Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
Last edited by ThorOdinson; 2020-10-19 at 12:38 AM.
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2020-10-19, 12:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
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- Montevarchi, Italy
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2020-10-19, 12:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2020
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2020-10-19, 12:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2017
Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
The crux here is the "while it is not in one hand (or any hand)" that you keep trying to sneak in and get people to agree to.
The whole argument is that we don't agree with the premise that, mechanically speaking, the weapon ceases being "wielded in one hand" when you throw it.
You have yet to provide any rules source that definitively states that the weapon does change states from being "wielded in one hand" before the attack resolves.
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2020-10-19, 12:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2020
Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
The Dueling Fighting Style rule is written in conditional format. In order to get the bonus you must satisfy the conditional. The conditional includes the word "wield". So what is your definition of "wield"?
So are you saying that when you throw a weapon it remains in your hand?Last edited by ThorOdinson; 2020-10-19 at 01:04 AM.
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2020-10-19, 01:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2016
Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
That does not matter as there is no flight time mechanic. Did you make an attack? Were you "wielding" (holding/using)a melee weapon in one hand when you made that attack?
The game uses an attack action. That action includes intent to attack, making a roll, determining hit or miss, and assigning damage. ALL of that is the attack action.Last edited by OzDragon; 2020-10-19 at 01:12 AM.
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2020-10-19, 01:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
Last edited by ff7hero; 2020-10-19 at 01:14 AM.
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2020-10-19, 01:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2020
Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
In order to make a ranged attack the character must throw the weapon.
"If a weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged Attack."
We know the weapon has been thrown. We throw the weapon as a requirement for making a ranged Attack.
So when you throw a weapon, does it remain in your hand or not?
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2020-10-19, 01:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2016
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2020-10-19, 01:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2020
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2020-10-19, 01:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2016
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2020-10-19, 01:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2020
Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
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2020-10-19, 01:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2017
Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
Again, you're reading a two step process here where everyone else is only seeing one.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but your entire argument hinges around:
Step A: Throw the Weapon
Step B: Now that the weapon has been thrown, and is clearly no longer in your hand, you may make a ranged attack with it
Everyone else is reading "throw the weapon to make a ranged attack" as a single element. Throwing the weapon happens as part of making the attack, and the attack, all the way through rolling damage, is instantaneous.
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2020-10-19, 01:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2016
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2020-10-19, 01:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2020
Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
The rules say "you can throw the weapon to make a ranged Attack."
The rules do not say "you can throw the weapon as part of a ranged Attack".
Are we agreed on the words in the rule book?
Also, I am not finding the word instanteneous in the PHB in reference to this. Can you provide a citation or are you cool with admitting this is a house rule on your part?
The rules say you must throw the weapon to make a ranged attack. So does the weapon remain in your hand when you throw it?Last edited by ThorOdinson; 2020-10-19 at 01:36 AM.
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2020-10-19, 01:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2017
Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
My reading of "to make a ranged attack" is "here's a method you can use to make a ranged attack" not "you must do this first before you can make a ranged attack."
To me, you're inserting a then into the rule that doesn't exist.
This is the rule you're describing:
"you can throw the weapon to [then] make a ranged attack."
Also there's this from PHB page 195
Ranged Attacks
When you make a ranged attack, you fire a bow or a crossbow, hurl a handaxe, or otherwise send projectiles to strike a foe at a distance.Last edited by Garhi; 2020-10-19 at 01:46 AM.
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2020-10-19, 01:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2016
Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
Last edited by OzDragon; 2020-10-19 at 01:41 AM.
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2020-10-19, 01:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2020
Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
Nope. I am not inserting anything. In order to make a ranged attack, I can throw the weapon. Since I do not have permission otherwise to make a ranged Attack with it, I must throw the weapon in order to make a ranged Attack. The rule is from the Thrown property. If you have not thrown the weapon you cannot make a ranged Attack with it.
The rule states you throw the weapon in order to make a ranged Attack.
So when you throw the weapon to make a ranged Attack, does it remain in your hand?Last edited by ThorOdinson; 2020-10-19 at 01:50 AM.
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2020-10-19, 01:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2020
Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
Duplicate post
Last edited by ThorOdinson; 2020-10-19 at 01:49 AM. Reason: Duplicate post
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2020-10-19, 01:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2016
Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
No, no, no, no, no, JUST NO!
For the last time...
Attack action, I declare attack (I'm throwing my javalin at creature X) Roll die to determine hit or miss. Do I hit? Yes: roll damage. No: dont roll damage.
There is not a separation of I throw my javalin then i attack it. ITS ALL ONE ACTION!
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2020-10-19, 01:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2018
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- Space Australia
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Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
Last edited by Zhorn; 2020-10-19 at 01:52 AM.
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2020-10-19, 01:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2020
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2020-10-19, 01:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2016
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2020-10-19, 01:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2020
Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
The Thrown rule specifies that you throw the weapon in order to make a ranged Attack.
So when you throw a weapon, does it remain in your hand?
I am not ignoring rules.
For reference, this is the rule you are ignoring.
"If a weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged Attack."
So what happens when you throw the weapon? Does the weapon remain in your hand?Last edited by ThorOdinson; 2020-10-19 at 02:00 AM.
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2020-10-19, 01:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2020
Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
Dplicate post
Last edited by ThorOdinson; 2020-10-19 at 02:01 AM. Reason: Duplicate
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2020-10-19, 02:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2017
Re: Quick questions: javelins with dueling style and natural weapon proficiency
Straight rules quotes:
PHB Page 193-194
Making an Attack
Whether you're striking with a melee weapon, firing a weapon at range, or making an attack roll as part of a spell, an attack has a simple structure.
1. Choose a target ...
2. Determine modifiers...
3. Resolve the attack. You make the attack roll. On a hit, you roll damage...
PHB Page 195
Ranged Attacks
When you make a ranged attack, you fire a bow or a crossbow, hurl a handaxe, or otherwise send projectiles to strike a foe at a distance.