Questionable Content XVI: Yes, Butt

[Rodin]

Oh, well, that's not what the word means, or how I would use it. So basically he's saying that no one in his immediate social circle makes that much, not that he has literally never met anyone who makes that much. That's a bit more reasonable, though still, $25,000 a year is less than $12.50/hr for a full-time worker, and while I don't make that much ($9/hr and I only work part time), it's not really all that much--school teachers make more than that unless they're just substitutes, and I'm pretty sure that garbage collectors make more than that just about anywhere in the U.S.

When I started part time work in Louisiana back in 2000, I was getting paid $5.45 per hour. In the past 20 years that minimum wage has gone up to...$7.25. My first job out of college was a "degree not required, but it helps" IT service desk role and I was getting paid more than the rest of the desk (because degree) at $12.00 per hour. When I left for the UK I was doing junior sysadmin and operations support work for ~38K (or $18 per hour), and that number put me into "comfortable middle class" range.

That same number would not be sufficient for me to pay rent on a studio apartment in LA. Not counting other expenses, the rent alone would bankrupt me.

There are massive differences in wages from state to state and even from city to city.

[dps]

When I started part time work in Louisiana back in 2000, I was getting paid $5.45 per hour. In the past 20 years that minimum wage has gone up to...$7.25. My first job out of college was a "degree not required, but it helps" IT service desk role and I was getting paid more than the rest of the desk (because degree) at $12.00 per hour. When I left for the UK I was doing junior sysadmin and operations support work for ~38K (or $18 per hour), and that number put me into "comfortable middle class" range.

That same number would not be sufficient for me to pay rent on a studio apartment in LA. Not counting other expenses, the rent alone would bankrupt me.

There are massive differences in wages from state to state and even from city to city.

Oh, absolutely, both wages and costs of living vary a lot. I don't see what that has to do with what I asked Delicious Taffy, though. I simply can't fathom that anyone living in the US doesn't even know anyone who makes at least $25,000 a year, hence the question "Where the heck do you live?!?". At that point, I seriously thought he might live in Botswana or Pakistan or New Guinea or something. And there's nothing wrong with that, in fact, I think it would be cool if we have a poster here who's not from a 1st world country, but I didn't really think that was the case here.

I brought up school teachers not because I think that they aren't important or should be poorly paid, by because we do have mandatory school attendance laws, so everyone knows teachers, and while by no means highly paid, teachers do make more than $25000, so everyone in the US, Canada, or western Europe does know someone who makes that much. And again, if Delicious Taffy does live somewhere like Botswana, that would be cool to know.

And, btw, I used "he" to refer to Delicious Taffy because that's the default third person singular pronoun for a person whose gender is unknown. Some people don't like that, but it's how English grammar was taught back when I was in school.

[Willie the Duck]

Beyond this current plotline's rampaging implausibility, I'm struggling to discern it's overall purpose.

Again I'm not telling yo that you're wrong, but if Marigold is revealed to be a successful streamer, and is on route to becoming a millionaire, and then the story is concluded and never mentioned again without anyone apart from Hannelore finding out about it.... What even is the point?

Just absolutely guessing -- Jeph wanted to do the stupid/silly 'Clinton's mom is also less square than he is' streaming vignette. He dropped the line that Aurelia's friend Burger Oni (which he'd already decided was Marigold) reached 200k subscribers. He meant followers. Someone pointed out that that (if things are anything like IRL) is $500k (gross) in a month. Painted into a corner, he decided to just roll with it. Marigold gets a $500k (or something similar, because again we don't know how much a sub is in the QCverse) payday and has to figure out what to do with it. In all likelihood, Jeph will have her viewership crash through some other wacky shenanigans that will take up several days of comic (interspersed with drama among the other 15 dozen characters in the comic), and it'll quietly be forgotten (minus a few callbacks).

Its certainly kind of crazy how much cost of living varies in the good old US of A. In my neck of the woods, 31k a year would be enough to rent a low end apartment (not slums, but not very good either) and otherwise keep your head above water financially. Quadruple that would be far from infinity pool money, but well above middle class income. And would be a huge shock to the system of someone suddenly making that much. This could also be the start of an interesting arc as marigold starts off scared of being this rich but then starts falling into the money/fame trap. You know, acting like a jerk, getting arrogant over being a big success, etc.

I live in a major metro area, but not one listed as one of those incredible COL nightmares. My rule of thumb is that if you have a 60-70k income (say, a household that is young starting-salary as a school-teacher and a postal carrier, or a single person in STEM-like jobs) than you can have a small house in a cheaper suburb. 90-100k (so maybe the teacher and a sysadmin) a small house in a un-preferred section of the main city. $150k+ and you can live in any part of the city (although of course there's always something out of your price range, although I've been in some of those houses, and my takeaway is always, 'well sure, but why?'). I don't want to say what I make--only that it is greatly more than what I expected to 20 years ago when I was a drain-circler with a TBI and a burgeoning drinking problem, while my wife works at a nursing home for $15-20/hr. (<insert here a big long rant comboing off Cikomyr2's point about undervaluing essential workers>), and the difference in worlds is palpable. Most of her coworkers are, regardless of age, living like the just-into-adulthood characters QC mostly typifies -- lots of paycheck-to-paycheck living, marginally functional vehicles, still the excitement when someone's parents spring for something or have a cabin to use as a vacation point, or similar.

[Max_Killjoy]

Teacher's salaries:
https://www.niche.com/blog/teacher-salaries-in-america/

[BRC]

Re: Marigold's success

It sounds like they've been doing more VTuber stuff than standard streaming, which might help her Shyness. Having a barrier of anonymity can go a long way towards countering shyness. She can be knowledgeable and passionate about games. It's hardly what I would call LIKELY, but I could see her developing a following. Who know how somebody goes viral, but if she got in on the ground floor of some popular games, or had a clip go viral.

Also, from a sci-fi perspective, a population of AI's might create a larger overall audience for entertaining streamers, especially as an AI could watch a stream in their brain while doing other stuff (Or a disembodied AI might watch streams as a way to relate socially while they're doing high-frequency stock trades or whatever).

Edit: She also DOES seem to be doing streaming full-time.

[Wildstag]

Let's ask the hard questions here, is that enough to feed raisins to your children in New York?

I love the reference, but SunMaid raisin boxes are the same price across the country. 6 1-serving boxes costs $2 in New York the same as they are in Gallup, NM.

That really had to have been the dumbest take from Jeph in a while. Raisins are super cheap. Raisin-bread is super cheap. Just in general, sun-dried fruits are incredibly cheap; I had more apricots and raisins than I did fresh apples as a kid before my dad started making enough money to provide different foods.

This whole streamer follower/subscriber and income thing just reminds me so much of the one clip from that documentary Stripped! wherein either Jeph or Hastings (of Dr. McNinja) says "Get with the times old man!" right before a fade to black.

It seems like the kinda story someone would make if they were only described that streaming could make you butt-tons of money without having done the research on what it's actually like.

[Yuki Akuma]

I still don't get why Jeph thought raisins were somehow a rich person food. What the **** kind of raisins is he buying?

I can get a bulk bag of raisins that'll feed me for days for like £2!

[Wraith]

I can get a bulk bag of raisins that'll feed me for days for like £2!

I think that's pretty much the point. Brun's family was so poor that they didn't have $2 to spare for snacks, no matter how good value they are.

Having spent 3 years working in a state school, I can unfortunately confirm that this isn't at all unrealistic, in a terrifying number of cases. He made the point in a particularly pretentious way, but to Jeph's credit he's right in principle. If you (by which I mean anyone, not particularly calling out Yuki here) don't know someone who grew up like Brun, then you're just very, very lucky.

[Wildstag]

I think that's pretty much the point. Brun's family was so poor that they didn't have $2 to spare for snacks, no matter how good value they are.

Having spent 3 years working in a state school, I can unfortunately confirm that this isn't at all unrealistic, in a terrifying number of cases. He made the point in a particularly pretentious way, but to Jeph's credit he's right in principle. If you (by which I mean anyone, not particularly calling out Yuki here) don't know someone who grew up like Brun, then you're just very, very lucky.

Raisins aren't even a snack though (or at least, they're only seen that way in wealthier classes); they're the cheapest fruit option on the market. They're also a common part of Mediterranean cuisine, which she likely would have been exposed to somewhat.

And having done my share of volunteer work at Children's Aid Societies and work with title 1 schools in NM, raisins and sun-dried fruits are more commonly provided for students and children than alternatives because they keep longer. Apricots and raisins were stored in mouse-proof bins and the only other fruits there were canned. In my work at community centers in a high-immigrant-population region, we always had raisins and those saccharine fruit cups available as snacks for the youth. This with a ridiculously cheap after-school care program (basically free for county residents).

Raisins are also common at food pantries, again, because they're cheap and keep well. To sequester a person so hard from literally the most commonplace fruit option (both provided at charities and on sale at every grocery option, even convenience stores), you'd have to have stubborn parents. And at that point, stubbornness isn't a factor of poverty, it's a matter of personal pride.

Honestly, there might be a couple schools or communities where raisins aren't an option, but you'd really have to cherry-pick to find it.

P.S. I've worked with kids that haven't had, say, blueberries or strawberries before. However, I have literally never seen a child that hasn't had an opinion on raisins (usually it's "ew, gross, why are you eating raisins?).

[Wraith]

Raisins are also common at food pantries, again, because they're cheap and keep well. To sequester a person so hard from literally the most commonplace fruit option (both provided at charities and on sale at every grocery option, even convenience stores), you'd have to have stubborn parents. And at that point, stubbornness isn't a factor of poverty, it's a matter of personal pride.

Honestly, there might be a couple schools or communities where raisins aren't an option, but you'd really have to cherry-pick to find it.

An interesting point. Do we know enough about Brun's childhood to say whether it was simply impoverished, or also possibly abusive? Or both?

Similarly; As much as we criticize Jeph for having slow and occasionally repetitive plots, he's definitely smart enough to focus on the interestingly unusual parts of his characters' lives, most of the time. Between us we can think of three of four reasons as to why Brun's childhood was improbably deprived, but I ask you - more or less unlikely than Marten's mom being a famous dominatrix? Or Marigold being a soon-to-be millionaire vtuber? Or anything that Pintsize has been involved with?

QC hasn't been slice-of-live for a long, long time. Now it's soap opera - remarkable characters doing exceptional things. Nowhere is it written that they must be nice things.

[Mechalich]

Just absolutely guessing -- Jeph wanted to do the stupid/silly 'Clinton's mom is also less square than he is' streaming vignette. He dropped the line that Aurelia's friend Burger Oni (which he'd already decided was Marigold) reached 200k subscribers. He meant followers. Someone pointed out that that (if things are anything like IRL) is $500k (gross) in a month. Painted into a corner, he decided to just roll with it. Marigold gets a $500k (or something similar, because again we don't know how much a sub is in the QCverse) payday and has to figure out what to do with it. In all likelihood, Jeph will have her viewership crash through some other wacky shenanigans that will take up several days of comic (interspersed with drama among the other 15 dozen characters in the comic), and it'll quietly be forgotten (minus a few callbacks).

I think you're probably correct here, but honestly that's worse. It implies that rather than admit to a completely inconsequential categorization mistake, Jeph was willing to drastically alter a character's status - if Marigold previously made 40-50k annually, a one-time payout of 500k, even after taxes, is still transformational, that'll buy you a condo in cash - which shifts the personal finances for thirty plus years. It also shows a distinct lack of effort in terms of just doing really basic background research. It takes about 10-15 minutes of googling to come up with plausible numbers for a streamer at any income level.

[Rodin]

An interesting point. Do we know enough about Brun's childhood to say whether it was simply impoverished, or also possibly abusive? Or both?

Similarly; As much as we criticize Jeph for having slow and occasionally repetitive plots, he's definitely smart enough to focus on the interestingly unusual parts of his characters' lives, most of the time. Between us we can think of three of four reasons as to why Brun's childhood was improbably deprived, but I ask you - more or less unlikely than Marten's mom being a famous dominatrix? Or Marigold being a soon-to-be millionaire vtuber? Or anything that Pintsize has been involved with?

QC hasn't been slice-of-live for a long, long time. Now it's soap opera - remarkable characters doing exceptional things. Nowhere is it written that they must be nice things.

The issue isn't that Brun hasn't had raisins. That's weird, but as you say QC is weird.

It's Clinton's reaction that is so off-putting. He isn't surprised that Brun hasn't had an extremely cheap food item that is often provided for free at school. He doesn't say he's sorry to hear about her impoverished childhood. No, he reacts like he put his foot in his mouth. Like he made a comment on the taste of champagne or caviar, instead of something a poor family is more likely to have than a middle class one.

Of all subjects to pick, why raisins? Why introduce Brun's former poverty only to never reference it again, rather than have Clinton put his foot in his mouth about Brun's already existing character traits and use the opportunity to explore them?

It's a bizarre storytelling decision.

[Max_Killjoy]

The issue isn't that Brun hasn't had raisins. That's weird, but as you say QC is weird.

It's Clinton's reaction that is so off-putting. He isn't surprised that Brun hasn't had an extremely cheap food item that is often provided for free at school. He doesn't say he's sorry to hear about her impoverished childhood. No, he reacts like he put his foot in his mouth. Like he made a comment on the taste of champagne or caviar, instead of something a poor family is more likely to have than a middle class one.

Of all subjects to pick, why raisins? Why introduce Brun's former poverty only to never reference it again, rather than have Clinton put his foot in his mouth about Brun's already existing character traits and use the opportunity to explore them?

It's a bizarre storytelling decision.

Bizarre storytelling decisions happen when the author is more interested in asserting a point than telling a character-driven story. (In this case, the asserted point being that people should feel bad and guilty for not being poor or otherwise disadvantaged.)

[Willie the Duck]

I think you're probably correct here, but honestly that's worse. It implies that rather than admit to a completely inconsequential categorization mistake, Jeph was willing to drastically alter a character's status - if Marigold previously made 40-50k annually, a one-time payout of 500k, even after taxes, is still transformational, that'll buy you a condo in cash - which shifts the personal finances for thirty plus years. It also shows a distinct lack of effort in terms of just doing really basic background research. It takes about 10-15 minutes of googling to come up with plausible numbers for a streamer at any income level.

<All of this is predicated with a preemptive 'this is my theory, I could be wrong'> I don't think it has anything to do with 'admitting' something. I think it has to do with a different perception of what the strip is. I think Jeph is fully on board with the strip being a drawn-art sitcom, including many unrealistic sitcom tropes. Those include the job one gets for a week that disappears soon after, the forced return to status quo, and so on. I think, to Jeph, that mistake was an opportunity, because now he gets to make 5-10 strips about Marigold and Hanners adventures in spending/investing/donating money.
*and again, I think he mixed the terms followers and subs, not failed to research the right number for subs. 200k followers is imminently plausible

[SaintRidley]

"My brain is trash and I live on the internet" has to be the next thread title.

[Keltest]

"My brain is trash and I live on the internet" has to be the next thread title.

Seconded.

Also, poor reflex response aside, not wanting people to know that youre a semi-famous V-tuber is a perfectly rational thing. Especially if youre more successful than IE Dora, basically by accident.

[georgie_leech]

"My brain is trash and I live on the internet" has to be the next thread title.

Thirded. Could have been worse though, given how popular certain kinds of crossovers between the two can be.

[Cikomyr2]

Seconded.

Also, poor reflex response aside, not wanting people to know that youre a semi-famous V-tuber is a perfectly rational thing. Especially if youre more successful than IE Dora, basically by accident.

I can imagine Dora freaking out at the news

"Oh? What is it? No, I am too busy running my somewhat successful business instead of PLAYING VIDEO GAMES AND EARNING FIVE TIMES THE AMOUNT"

[Wraith]

Dora has always been pretty chill about Hannelore's family being millionaires, or Veronica Reed being an (inter?)nationally famous fetish model. People doing better than her isn't the problem, so Marigold is probably safe.

It's just Sven being good at the thing he enjoyed, that she generally disapproves of.

[Agi Hammerthief]

It's just Sven being good at the thing he enjoyed, that she generally disapproves of.

I had that down to making money with even the trashy stuff he comes up with.

[Traab]

In his case it was more that everything comes to him so easily. He thrashes out some drek he even admits is total garbage and it sells for good money with minimal effort, he has a constant parade of lovers who are generally happily dtf on a casual basis, makes friends everywhere, etc etc etc. Its jealousy not for his success but for the ease of it all. If she saw him sweating to make deadlines or struggling to sell his songs, even if in the end he was just as well off, she likely wouldnt have been bothered at all.

[DaFlipp]

In his case it was more that everything comes to him so easily. He thrashes out some drek he even admits is total garbage and it sells for good money with minimal effort, he has a constant parade of lovers who are generally happily dtf on a casual basis, makes friends everywhere, etc etc etc. Its jealousy not for his success but for the ease of it all. If she saw him sweating to make deadlines or struggling to sell his songs, even if in the end he was just as well off, she likely wouldnt have been bothered at all.

Yeah, and if I recall correctly it went back even further than that to when they were kids, where Sven coasted through school and frequently hooked up with Dora's friends. I recall a lot of her control issues were at least partially tied to the way she defined herself in contrast to her easy-going (and infuriatingly successful) brother.

Hannelore, Marigold, etc. don't have that deep-seated baggage attached, so they presumably don't frustrate in the same way.

[Traab]

Yeah, and if I recall correctly it went back even further than that to when they were kids, where Sven coasted through school and frequently hooked up with Dora's friends. I recall a lot of her control issues were at least partially tied to the way she defined herself in contrast to her easy-going (and infuriatingly successful) brother.

Hannelore, Marigold, etc. don't have that deep-seated baggage attached, so they presumably don't frustrate in the same way.

Though I bet if either acted as if money as endless and easy to get and lounged about while the casual checks rolled in she would start eye twitching at them. But yeah, sven to dora was basically touched by the gods. When he was hungry an apple would fall from a tree and land in his hand, thirsty and drink machines would malfunction as he walked past to offer him their wares. If his car broke down a passing mechanic would take 30 seconds and fix it for free. Its honestly uncertain precisely how blessed his life was and how much was dora suffering from confirmation bias, but yeah, he led a pretty sweet life of low effort and high rewards.

[otakuryoga]

i find her scenario very believable

also wish to propose "always assume the worst" (or just "assume the worst" if thats too long) as the next thread title

[Wraith]

i find her scenario very believable

This is literally what happened the first time that Hannelore met Clinton. And, slightly less invasive but similar, when she met May. Hannelore, of all people, should probably remember what happens when weirdo internet nerds think they have even a tiny chance of living out their parasocial delusions, and that's just by association to her Dad whereas Marigold is herself the focal point.

With that in mind... What on earth is Jeph's message/punchline supposed to be here? That Marigold is scared of being outed by internet weirdos and that's irrational of her to have these fears? Go do a google search for "twitch stalker" and enjoy doomscrolling into hell for an hour, and I hope you'll agree that Marigold is being perfectly intelligent about her situation.

[Traab]

Yeah this isnt an unrealistic fear at all. Any time even the slightest bit of personal info gets out there it can trigger exactly this. Peoples lives have been destroyed overnight by internet vigilante mobs who managed to track down all their rl info in short order.

[Maryring]

He has both "100% realistic scenario" and "She's not wrong" as statements about the comic. I'm pretty sure Jeph is well aware that Marigold's fears are reasonable, and that the humour is meant to be a mix of "haha, that is such a convoluted scheme" and "haha, I'm laughing because this is terrifyingly true". An attempt at bathos if you will.

[Wraith]

That makes sense, I guess - at first I didn't read it as sarcasm, but that's a reasonable context.

It's still weird that it's Hannelore "Oh God, WHAT ABOUT alligators!?!" Elliot-Chatham who is being the level-headed character in this situation.

[Traab]

That makes sense, I guess - at first I didn't read it as sarcasm, but that's a reasonable context.

It's still weird that it's Hannelore "Oh God, WHAT ABOUT alligators!?!" Elliot-Chatham who is being the level-headed character in this situation.

But how is marigold not being level headed here? Hannelore is the one dismissing a reasonable concern. Yeah maybe that EXACT chain of events is unlikely, but the basic gist "If information spreads then its possible creepers will learn about me and my life will become a nightmare" is very valid and thus concern about her secret spreading is perfectly reasonable.

[Vinyadan]

Hannelore reads weird. She almost went through this because of Clinton. She isn't being level-headed. Maybe she's just trying to cover her own mistakes in revealing financial information about Marigold to a common friend, when it really was Marygold's call (and Marygold is right, of course).