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2021-06-18, 11:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
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2021-06-18, 12:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
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2021-06-18, 12:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-06-18, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
More or less, but I suspect it’d be more of the collected annoyance at the Scribblers’ collective failures and how it’s led to this, especially if Serini is gonna try and take the high ground on this.
I mean, Roy looked real mad at Girard there back when the thing went off and here, I imagine accusations thrown at them would anger each one of them for different reasons and thus each taking their turn at pointing out the flaws in Serini’s process.
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2021-06-18, 03:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
What do orange swirly eyes mean? have we seen that color eyes in a spell before?
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2021-06-18, 04:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
Swirly eyes in general mean enchantment magic, the shade of the swirlyness tends to be tied to the colour of the caster's magic.
Nale, whose magic is yellow, produces yellow swirly eyes:
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0383.html
Vampire Durkon, whose magic is red, produces red swirly eyes:
https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1122.html
and so on.Last edited by hamishspence; 2021-06-18 at 04:24 PM.
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2021-06-18, 06:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
I guess it occurred to me at some point that someone will eventually point out that, well, "You've failed to defeat Xykon, so your judgment on how to handle him can no longer be trusted!" said someone who failed to defeat Xykon, and whose judgment should totally be trusted.
I can't imagine it'd so much as faze her, though. Why should anyone care about being a hypocrite when the fate of the world is at stake?
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2021-06-18, 07:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
She's not trying to defeat Xykon though, and from a purely logical position she's probably spot on about their chances of winning. This is a story so narrative convention matters, but she doesn't know that (or rather, the characters' only think like that when it's supposed to be funny).
I'd just like to point out that saying that something unsupported is the case unless someone else can prove that it is not is an utter failure of logic. - Kish
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2021-06-18, 08:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
I mean, the only reason I’m this frustrated with her is because she doesn’t seem to either know or care that the Snarl can literally rip the multiverse to shreds rather than just being another generic doomsday device. I guess she might not know that the gods were willing to destroy the world, but she should at least be aware of the possibility as well.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
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2021-06-19, 06:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
Quick question: does any of our casters have Invisibility Purge? I don't remember the Order fighting invisible ennemies before.
From the Frost Giant and Exaargh fight, I gather that spell is more of a Cleric spell, but I reckon Durkon won't have it prepared because, well, Durkon. Elan is barely a caster and he's incapacitated right now. Could V cast it? V has Invisibility so that sounds like something that would come with.Forum Wisdom
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2021-06-19, 06:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
I don't think we've seen them use Invisibility Purge, but Durkon did dispel Xykon's invisibility with Greater Dispel Magic. Without knowing a whole lot about D&D mechanics, I'd be surprised if one of them didn't have that or something else sufficient* prepared.
(* - I dunno if regular Dispel Magic would work or what kind of invisibility is being used here.)
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2021-06-19, 08:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
Invisibility Purge is a Cleric-only spell I believe, and Glitterdust’s a Conjuration spell so V can’t do that either.
Really, I know the Giant is purposely making them unoptimized, but they’re practically asking for a TPK. Especially since Rich has no such reluctance for antagonist builds.Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
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2021-06-19, 08:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
Forum Wisdom
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2021-06-19, 08:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
I suppose if she’s using a wand, scroll, or magic item for invisibility, a normal area-version Dispel Magic would probably short it out with not much risk of wiping out their own buffs.
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
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2021-06-19, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
Rather then invisibility purge or glitterdust they could just have Vaarsuvius cast see invisibility, it wouldn't help the rest of the party directly but would let Vaarsuvius inform them about the invisible person and the location thereof and it lasts a lot longer then invisibility purge or glitterdust and is much more reliable them dispel magic.
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2021-06-19, 01:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
[QUOTE=Fyraltari;25091952]From the Frost Giant and Exaargh fight, I gather that spell is more of a Cleric spell/QUOTE]
The tricky thing with D&D is that it can be hard to tell a Wizard/Sorc spell from a Cleric/Druid spell except for the obvious ones. Generally, Clerics and Druids can heal while Wizards and Sorcerers can't, but W/Ss have big blasty spells while C/Ds don't. It even that isn't hard and fast.
Utility spells can be a toss up.Last edited by Peelee; 2021-06-19 at 01:28 PM.
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2021-06-19, 01:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
Yeah - and then Serini shreds V with poisoned crossbow bolts. I doubt she wouldn’t have prepared against that.
Invisibility Purge really isn’t on the Sorc/Wiz list though. Also FYI, Druids have better blasting than Clerics, though still worse than arcanists.Last edited by danielxcutter; 2021-06-19 at 01:46 PM.
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2021-06-19, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-06-19, 07:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
NPCs often have some observable degree of optimization, but they are very very far from polished works from a minmax perspective. Xykon, notably, seems to lack any means to directly counter Invisibility, which is a glaring hole for someone who prides himself on his ability to take out Wizards.
I, suppose, in a pinch, he Readies an Action to hit his best guess square with Supreme Dispelling. But that would suh-huck if he were tested at a gaming table rather than in a story.I owe Peelee 5 Quatloos. But I am going double or nothing that Durkon will be casting 8th level spells at the big finale.
I bet Goblin_Priest 5 quatloos that Xykon does not know RC has the phylactery at this point in the tale (#1139).
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of Belkar...so close!
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2021-06-19, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
Okay, but Redcloak is a Cleric. I'm pretty sure that if we had seen the party try to ambush Xykon and co with invisibility and RC or Xykon noticed/had True Seeing up, then RC would drop a round of Invisibility Purge.
Because both of them are moderately paranoid, high level adventurers can use Invisibility and ambush you, and it's just a spell slot or two instead of building your kit around it.Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2021-06-19 at 08:10 PM.
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
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2021-06-19, 09:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
Sure - non-magical arrows and bolts. It fails miserably as soon as the arrow has a +1 bonus, and I have no idea why you’d think an epic rogue would only use masterwork weapons.
Uh, okay? I was talking about how V can’t cast it instead since Durkon would never have it prepared in a situation where it might help though?Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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2021-06-19, 10:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
I am not entirely sure what you are arguing for here - that invisibility purge or glitterdust would be better then see invisibility, they are different spells with different uses so depending on circumstances yes.
However the easiest counter she has to being spotted is likely high ranks in hide and move silently making any invisibility merely an unneeded buff.
If on the other hand she actually needs to rely on that invisibility then the idea that she would beat with ease a stoneskinned wizard who could hide in a round behind a forcecage/wall - but has no plans for what is known to be a fairly common cleric spell seems odd.
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2021-06-19, 10:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Squire Doodad; 2021-06-19 at 10:14 PM.
An explanation of why MitD being any larger than Huge is implausible.
See my extended signature here! May contain wit, candor, and somewhere from 52 to 8127 walruses.
Purple is humorous descriptions made up on the fly
Green is serious talk about hypothetical
Blue is irony and sarcasm
"I think, therefore I am,
I walk, therefore I stand,
I sleep, therefore I dream;
I joke, therefore I meme."
-Squire Doodad
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2021-06-19, 10:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
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2021-06-19, 10:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
That is correct I am not sure she is invisible at all - and if she is I doubt she would stand out in the open with it given the various methods of bypassing it, including true-seeing now that I think of it which both Vaarsuvius and Durkon have.
My initial post above could likely have been better with a few quotes embedded into it.
My basic point was 'yes the order has ways of seeing invisible people' the most obvious might be see invisibility, whether that would help with this specific invisible person or not is not something I commented on (until we started talking about how to deal with see invisibility).
If Serini's big plan is 'I am invisible therefore I am invincible' I will be somewhat disappointed in her.Last edited by dancrilis; 2021-06-19 at 11:00 PM.
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2021-06-19, 11:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-06-20, 05:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
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Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
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2021-06-20, 06:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
What I don't get is, why does she bother interfering before they reach anywhere close to the gate? If the Order and the paladins fight Xykon either outside or inside one of the many dungeons, they can't blow out the gate even if they lose, because they are neither close to the gate nor they know where it is...
Serini should just let Xykon and the Order (and paladins) kill each other. If the Order defeats Xykon? nice, everything is solved.... If Xykon kills them? Well, at least Serini didn't have to dirty her hands disposing of some heroes...
The gate would be in danger only if Xykon and the Order found it at the same time and fought their final battle in front of it, but what are the chances of it happening...? Well, a Bard like Elan would say that is bound to happen because of narrative conventions, but Serini doesn't look like somebody to trust narrative conventions.... She doesn't think that Good will defeat Evil in the last minute, to begin with...
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2021-06-20, 07:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
To be super nitpicky, we don't know where the Gate actually is or how to reach it. There's a non-zero chance that a fight in the corridors might affect the Gate.
More importantly, if the Order loses they might well tip off Team Evil as to how the trap works. Unwittingly or (conceivably) under torture.
But also, Serini doesn't want the Order to die. She wants to get them out of harm's way. Saying she should just let Xykon kill them is a misunderstanding of her character IMO.ungelic is us
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2021-06-20, 08:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1236 - The Discussion Thread
If ‘stop the idiots from committing Xykon-assisted suicide’ was that high up on her priority list I imagine she’d have mentioned it already. Though I suppose she was talking with paladins.
That being said I wonder if the portal scam is that strong of a defense? A group strong enough to not instantly get vaporized by the monsters in the fake dungeons would usually have either a mage who’d put in the work scanning the general area for magic and/or a trapfinder good enough to figure it out, so it’s more of a “you must be this tall” feature than a main line of a defense I think.
On the other hand, of course, Xykon doesn’t have the patience or diligence to scan every square with Detect Magic et. al or to wait for that, and nobody on Team Evil has trapfinding at all so no need to break it if it’s working I guess.Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
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